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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:34:21 -0700
Here's a fun question.

Let's say a mage is chasing after a bad guy. He follows the guy
around a corner into a poorly lit room. On the other side of the
room he see's several shadowy figures. He casts a Powerball at them,
centering on the guy in the center. The mage is within the AOE of
ground zero.

It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
from several mirrors.

Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
reflections of himself?

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:54:44 -0500
>It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
>from several mirrors.
>
>Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
>reflections of himself?

Gah!
Did this actually happen in a game, or is it rhetorical?

IMO he only gets hammered once.
Once spell + one aura = One effect

While the mirror effect makes it possible for the mage to hose himself, I
don't see that the spell would be able to "synch to his aura" three times.

That said, I can see the argument for screwing the player over royally, and
depending on the mage ... I'd probably hit him three times. ;-)

David this idea certainly earns you a place in the EGM's.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." - Semisonic
Message no. 3
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:22:58 +0200
>Here's a fun question.

Since I'm a bit with the other threads, I'll chase on it. :)

>Let's say a mage is chasing after a bad guy. He follows the guy
>around a corner into a poorly lit room. On the other side of the
>room he see's several shadowy figures. He casts a Powerball at them,
>centering on the guy in the center. The mage is within the AOE of
>ground zero.

I see a first problem : If this is a shadowy figure, I don't think he could
synchronize spell pattern with the aura and so couldn't cast the spell.
However, if this is a manip spell, he can do it.

>It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
>from several mirrors.

Second problem : If the image is from himself, he would have recognized his
own aura and wouldn't have launched the spell. As a game mechanics, I would
say he would still have to suffer from drain... Your opinion ?
If he casts a manip spell, he will destroy (presumably) the mirror and
that's all.

>Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
>reflections of himself?

Third problem : The spell can use reflections to arrive to its target but
is in NO way able to multiply itself. If my previous arguments don't fit
with your opinion, I would say that the spell travels to its target then
affects him (her) and that's all. After that, the spell no longer exists.

Hope that helps.

- Cobra.
Email : wgallas@*****.fr
Message no. 4
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:49:59 -0600
> It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
> from several mirrors.
>
> Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
> reflections of himself?

IMO? Can you say "chunky salsa"?
Message no. 5
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:38:15 -0800
At 11:49 AM 4/4/98 -0600, Nexx wrote:
>> It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
>> from several mirrors.
>>
>> Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
>> reflections of himself?
>
>IMO? Can you say "chunky salsa"?
>
I'd rule that the spellcaster is hit only once with the spell.

Otherwise, you're going to have to deal with characters that dig out
those novelty multiple-image lenses and use them to hit the opponents
multiple times with the same area affect spell.

Mike
Message no. 6
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:49:58 PST
>Here's a fun question.
>
>Let's say a mage is chasing after a bad guy. He follows the guy
>around a corner into a poorly lit room. On the other side of the
>room he see's several shadowy figures. He casts a Powerball at them,
>centering on the guy in the center. The mage is within the AOE of
>ground zero.
>
>It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
>from several mirrors.
>
>Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
>reflections of himself?

Hmm... good question. If this actually happened in game, I'd allow the
mage to make a Perception test first to tell if that aura "feels
familiar". If he fails, then it's goodnight, Irene.
He'd only get hit once. He only has one aura that the spell is
"linked to". But since it's a physical spell, and his intent was to hit
many people, I'd say he detroys the mirrors as well.



-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
"Sure, there's an order to the universe, but this time I
think the Big Guy forgot the pepperoni."
-Liam Bough


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 7
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:29:37 -0500
>
> Re: It's all done with mirrors (Michael Paff , Sat 12:38)
>
> At 11:49 AM 4/4/98 -0600, Nexx wrote:
> >> It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
> >> from several mirrors.
> >>
> >> Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
> >> reflections of himself?
> >
> >IMO? Can you say "chunky salsa"?
> >
> I'd rule that the spellcaster is hit only once with the spell.
>
> Otherwise, you're going to have to deal with characters that dig out
> those novelty multiple-image lenses and use them to hit the opponents
> multiple times with the same area affect spell.
>
> Mike

ROTFLOL! Yep, thats about it. Heck, its like thinking binoculars would
double the spell.
In the given example, thereis valid LOS, the spell centers on the main
target's actual location, and then it takes effect. You can't get
multiple (non overlapping) AOE's by looking at a few optical display
screens, either.
Note that the said "shadowy figure's" implies poor visibility, resulting
in TN mods for the spellcasting test.
On the other hand, we have a mage who is fond of "splitting" a spell an
"spell stacking". If he cast at multiple images of himselfusing those
options, he would have more than one spell being aimed at him, and be
tagret for them all.

On the other hand, you could rule a mage instinctively knows when he is
targetting himself- he can ALWAYS use spell defense when a spell target,
and gets a resistance test.

Shadowtech does have a note about a guy who "charbroiled hiself with a
too-nasty fireball". I always figured the guy had pumped up the AOE
diameter to much, and got himself, but it could be a simple case of
physical drain.

Mongoose
Message no. 8
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:31:32 -0700
Wafflemeister hypothesized:

<snip>

> ROTFLOL! Yep, thats about it. Heck, its like thinking binoculars would
> double the spell.

they don't? ;)

> On the other hand, we have a mage who is fond of "splitting" a spell an
> "spell stacking". If he cast at multiple images of himselfusing those
> options, he would have more than one spell being aimed at him, and be
> tagret for them all.

Oh yes and we all know how much fun slipping AOE spells is when it comes to
drain time...ouch.

> On the other hand, you could rule a mage instinctively knows when he is
> targetting himself- he can ALWAYS use spell defense when a spell target,
> and gets a resistance test.

Well as long as he had pool set aside for defense/shielding then he can
sure.

> Shadowtech does have a note about a guy who "charbroiled hiself with a
> too-nasty fireball". I always figured the guy had pumped up the AOE
> diameter to much, and got himself, but it could be a simple case of
> physical drain.

Either way. I have always seen it like this: No matter what a mage does
he can always see himself or at least his aura which is what really
matters, therefore if he is within the AOE of one of his own spell then he
gets zapped too. In fact I have had a few cases where a mage of mine
centered an AOE spell on himself purposefully...works pretty well if you
can survive it. :) Also Gurth had a point, it keeps mages from casting
AOE spells at targets a few meters away...that way his less likely to hit
his teammates as well.


Caric-the-don't-forget-a-power-focus-increases-the-AOE-of-some-spells-:)-sha
man
Message no. 9
From: "P. Nicholas Vogt" <P.Nicholas.Vogt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:54:18 EDT
--- You wrote:
In fact I have had a few cases where a mage of mine
centered an AOE spell on himself purposefully...works pretty well if you
can survive it. :)
--- end of quoted material ---
exactly. if you have the right amount of dice for spell defense, you're in
excellent shape. say you're captive and being guarded closely(and don't have a
gesture geas). who's expecting a fireball to suddenly engulf the entire area,
including you? alternatively, if you're in a party with two mages and one of
them gets into trouble, or even if the two of them have different areas of
expertise, a prearranged agreement to this effect can be pretty devastating.
the mage who forms the center of the area-effect spell can have all (or nearly
all) possible dice set aside for spell defense. this leaves the caster to pump
all of his dice into the spell itself. boom.
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:37:34 -0600
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
/
/ >It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
/ >from several mirrors.
/ >
/ >Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
/ >reflections of himself?
/
/ Gah!
/ Did this actually happen in a game, or is it rhetorical?

I'm toying with the idea of running an encounter in an amusement
park. I wanted to use a mirror room in the funhouse or the mirror
maze. Remembering that one of the PCs loves AOE spells was how I
came up with the question.

/ IMO he only gets hammered once.
/ Once spell + one aura = One effect

That's what I thought. Darn :)

/ David this idea certainly earns you a place in the EGM's.

Why, thank you Mister Tinner <EGMG>.

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: It's all done with mirrors
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:39:48 -0600
Wafflemeisters wrote:
/
/ > Re: It's all done with mirrors (Michael Paff , Sat 12:38)
/ >
/ > At 11:49 AM 4/4/98 -0600, Nexx wrote:
/ > >> It turns out that the shadowy figures are all reflections of himself
/ > >> from several mirrors.
/ > >>
/ > >> Is he hit with his spell once, or as many times as there are
/ > >> reflections of himself?

[snip: general consensus of "no"]

/ On the other hand, we have a mage who is fond of "splitting" a spell an
/ "spell stacking". If he cast at multiple images of himself using those
/ options, he would have more than one spell being aimed at him, and be
/ target for them all.

<EGMGLOL>

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

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