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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Deird'Re Brooks <deirdre@***.ORG>
Subject: Ivy's Replies
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 20:15:19 -0800
Ivy Responds, again. . .
From: Ivy K. Ryan

To: Chris Siebenmann
Subject: The economics of shadowrunning

The statistic analysis of who will have the wiring, and who will
shadowrun with it was fatally flawed from the start. Two of the
groups most likely to have heavy cyber (crooks and corps, is
there a difference?) weren't even *considered*, let alone
counted. The actual percentage of the *real* population of
Seattle who have combat cyber should be 60+%. That's when the
gangers and criminals are counted and when a realistic look is
taken at the "law" enFORCEment and military.

I will agree that the Shadowrun world doesn't show a realistic
amount of cyberwear. It shows way too little for a realistic
world with the level of technology it has.

Couple of points here. The first is that you are playing
CRIMINALS, not the Upright Uptight Citizens (U^2C's). We aren't
talking about middle class citizens here. Sure, a U^2C wouldn't
be able to afford the cyber the characters have, and
realistically the cops, military, gangbangers and organized
criminals would have too, that's the point. Criminals have a lot
of ways to make a LOT of money very quickly. Mugging, extortion,
robbery, net embezzling, drug pushing, BTL pushing, pimping, hi-
jacking, and many more. The average daily income for a drug
pusher in Washington D.C. is over $1,000 right now for example.
While the game books don't mention it, drugs won't go away, and
the profit margin on drugs is outrageous.

Therefor, there are four groups that *will* have heavy combat
cyber. The first group is the government (ALL governments)
enFORCEment arms. (The cops always want to stay ahead of the
people, look at what they have NOW.) The second is the military,
they *hate* to be behind the curve, and while they will probably
"deactivate" any "illegal" wiring when a character is discharged,
it cannot be removed. (Street docs would do a land-office
business re-activating it.) The third group is the corps, they
don't want to be behind the curve either. The fourth group is
the criminal element. They can't afford to give the cops any
edge they don't HAVE to. The Mafia, Yakuza, and Tongs have the
nuyen coming out of their ears and the gangers can easily get it.
For a gangbanger boosted 3 reflexes, smartlink, and some eye and
ear work is cheap when it means their status and probably their
life. Not quite a hundred thousand nuyen and that can be made in
a couple of months, in dollars, pushing crack right now! If you
add in the (much lower) prices of unlicensed doctors and second
hand cyber it gets even easier. Or they could just "make a deal"
with an unlicensed doctor and a cyber supplier. A deal along the
line of "You give us a (huge) price break, and we don't trash
your operations." The mark-up on medical goods is about 1000%
and cutting the mark-up is cheaper than hiring guards.

Oh, yeah, Shadowrun doesn't HAVE a Medium Pistol. That's why I
put them in. And the formulas used by Guns^3 to figure damage
are about as accurate as the old Hatcher formula, which I use in
a modified form. Neither is perfect but the Modified Hatcher
works for me. Guns^3 didn't work. I had the book, and I tried
to use it. I spent about 23 years working with firearms as a
match shooter and a military veteren y'see. The first woman on
several Army match teams. And I spent a lot of time talking to,
and reading the works of, people who used guns professionally. I
still read a lot on the subject even though I'm crippled now and
can't shoot anymore. I use it for game work all the time.
-----

Marzhavasati Kali |If mail bounces, check spelling. It's deirdre.
deirdre@***.org |If that doesn't work, send mail to
|deirdre%efn.org@*******.cs.uoregon.edu
"If the Goddess hadn't intended us to enjoy sex, she would _not_
have given us _orgasms_!"
-- DB
Message no. 2
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ivy's Replies
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 00:21:44 -0600
>I will agree that the Shadowrun world doesn't show a realistic
>amount of cyberwear. It shows way too little for a realistic
>world with the level of technology it has.

I disagree. While the tech may be there, the general populace may 1)not want
to have their bodies replaced and 2) may not be able to afford it. Look at
what the average salary you can earn is compared with the cost of cyber.
I figure anythin over 3-5 grand is a luxury item that people buy as often
as they buy, say, a car.

As for law enforcement/military/criminals, the cyber will still be
proportionately low. Look at how much it would cost to cyber a complete
division of troops; I don't think many agencies could afford to do this
across the board, especially at the higher levels. Wired 2 is pretty hot
shit, let alone wired 3. Boosted and Wired 1 are probably the most you
can expect to be provided on a mass scale, and then only to select troops
or those who will do little but combat (no "Look at those Engineers GO!").

Criminals will probably not be able to afford the high-end stuff except on
a very rare basis: Great Connections, Lotsa Cash, and a Doc who'll do the
work. Spurs, jacks, and other things are probably pretty cool but not
most bioware and things like Wired 2.

Finally, I have only read 1 novel (2Xs) but in it the main character was
surprised to see a sam who had voluntarily had his arm replaced. I think that
even in 2054, volunteering to give up a part of your body takes a special class
of individual on the DSM-IV psych profile. Things like Datajacks and radios,
fine; they just get added, but to give up your limbs is something altogether
different.

J Roberson

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