Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:04:53 -0500
Does anyone know where to find jumping and leaping rules? I seem to
remember them, but I cant find them.

Mike
Message no. 2
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:13:06 -0400
At 11:04 PM 10-4-98 -0500, you wrote:

>Does anyone know where to find jumping and leaping rules? I seem to
>remember them, but I cant find them.
>
>Mike

They're in Fields of Fire, but they leave a lot to be desired... (I've
determined that it's virutally impossible to build Carl Lewis or Jesse
Owens in SR without augmentation or absurdly large skill ratings.)

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 3
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:13:07 -0500
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:13:06 -0400 Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
writes:
>At 11:04 PM 10-4-98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Does anyone know where to find jumping and leaping rules? I seem to
>>remember them, but I cant find them.

>They're in Fields of Fire, but they leave a lot to be desired... (I've
>determined that it's virutally impossible to build Carl Lewis or Jesse
>Owens in SR without augmentation or absurdly large skill ratings.)

In our games the Street Sam tried to jump once ... he was an Elf with a
final strength of something like 11, Quickness was 12 and his Natural
Body was up there ... I think 5 or 6. Well, he wanted to jump, so I
looked it up in FoF. Turns out he couldn't jump... not an inch off the
ground ... Didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me ... Does anybody
have a better system?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 4
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:46:35 -0500
> In our games the Street Sam tried to jump once ... he was an Elf with a
> final strength of something like 11, Quickness was 12 and his Natural
> Body was up there ... I think 5 or 6. Well, he wanted to jump, so I
> looked it up in FoF. Turns out he couldn't jump... not an inch off the
> ground ... Didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me ... Does anybody
> have a better system?
>
> --
> D. Ghost

In FOF it states for standing jump it is half Strength minus Body (Str/2 -
Body) in meters. It then say "for running jump, the character may add his
Quickness" and gives the formula (Quickness + Strength - Body/2 = meters
jumped). Now is it Str/2 or Body/2?

Mike
Message no. 5
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:05:21 EDT
In a message dated 10/4/1998 11:04:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mscoleman@********.NET writes:

>
> Does anyone know where to find jumping and leaping rules? I seem to
> remember them, but I cant find them.
>
Fields of Fire, can't recall page numbers ATM. Sorry (shrug)

-K
Message no. 6
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:07:52 EDT
In a message dated 10/4/1998 11:17:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
starjammer@**********.COM writes:

>
> >Does anyone know where to find jumping and leaping rules? I seem to
> >remember them, but I cant find them.
> They're in Fields of Fire, but they leave a lot to be desired... (I've
> determined that it's virutally impossible to build Carl Lewis or Jesse
> Owens in SR without augmentation or absurdly large skill ratings.)

Actually, it is entirely feasible, especially if you take into account an
Athletics roll to augment your quickness before you make the leap itself.
Perhaps using "Running Start" to augment the leap in the manner that a
"Complimentary Skill" itself does. All in all, it would work rather well.

-K
Message no. 7
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:11:45 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:24:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

>
> In our games the Street Sam tried to jump once ... he was an Elf with a
> final strength of something like 11, Quickness was 12 and his Natural
> Body was up there ... I think 5 or 6. Well, he wanted to jump, so I
> looked it up in FoF. Turns out he couldn't jump... not an inch off the
> ground ... Didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me ... Does anybody
> have a better system?
>
> --
> D. Ghost
WHAT???!!!??? I think you did the math bassakwards or something. That guy
should have cleared at least 6 meters, and if he were getting a running start,
at least 9.

-K
Message no. 8
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:20:05 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:43:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mscoleman@********.NET writes:

>
> In FOF it states for standing jump it is half Strength minus Body (Str/2 -
> Body) in meters. It then say "for running jump, the character may add his
> Quickness" and gives the formula (Quickness + Strength - Body/2 = meters
> jumped). Now is it Str/2 or Body/2?
>
> Mike
I just knew you folks would make me dig the book out here...okay, my original
comment to D. Ghost was off on the first. In the first example, the character
should have cleared one meter (attribute halving is rounded up here). If we
use Mathematic Hierarchy for equations, then the distance is (quickness +
strength) - (Body / 2). So if *that* were the option D. Ghost originally
gave, the guy would clear some 20 meters....hmmm...don't think so.

Let's see, it's probably the entire plus/minus section of the formula figured
out, then the final number divided by 2 (again, IMO, round up). So it would
be ... (S:11/Q:12/B:5(?)) would come up with 9 meters. So I wouldn't have
been off in my second guess at least.

Now the suggestion to add meterage to your leap as found on page 77 to me is
goofy as hell. If you are going to jump 10 meters, your target number is a 10
and every successes indicates another meter's distance? Okay, except for
spell casting, and combat, this is not utilized this way for skill tests
(unopposed). I would have made it a given target number, the way that running
is defined in SR3, and with each success adding a given meter to the overall
leap attempt. This suggested method still works well with regards to the
Adept and the Street Sam.

Hydraulic Jacks act as a multiplier for the leap? WOW!!! I have HJ-6 and the
above character. He should have been named "SuperROO" and gone into show
business... ;)

-K
Message no. 9
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:00:39 -0500
> >
> > In FOF it states for standing jump it is half Strength minus
> Body (Str/2 -
> > Body) in meters. It then say "for running jump, the character
> may add his
> > Quickness" and gives the formula (Quickness + Strength -
> Body/2 = meters
> > jumped). Now is it Str/2 or Body/2?
> >
> > Mike
> If we
> use Mathematic Hierarchy for equations, then the distance is (quickness +
> strength) - (Body / 2). So if *that* were the option D. Ghost originally
> gave, the guy would clear some 20 meters....hmmm...don't think so.
>
> Let's see, it's probably the entire plus/minus section of the
> formula figured
> out, then the final number divided by 2 (again, IMO, round up).
> So it would
> be ... (S:11/Q:12/B:5(?)) would come up with 9 meters. So I wouldn't have
> been off in my second guess at least.
> -K
>

So you are saying it is (Str + Qui - Body) / 2 = meters or (Str + Qui -
(Body/2)) /2 = meters

Lets take someone with Str:6, Qui:6 and Body:6

The first equation is a running jump of 3 meters.
The second is a running jump of 4.75 meters.

Both seem short.

Does anyone know what the current long jump records is?

Mike
Message no. 10
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:55:03 -0500
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:11:45 EDT K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:24:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> In our games the Street Sam tried to jump once ... he was an Elf with
a
>> final strength of something like 11, Quickness was 12 and his Natural
>> Body was up there ... I think 5 or 6. Well, he wanted to jump, so I
>> looked it up in FoF. Turns out he couldn't jump... not an inch off
the
>> ground ... Didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me ... Does
anybody
>> have a better system?

>WHAT???!!!??? I think you did the math bassakwards or something. That
guy
>should have cleared at least 6 meters, and if he were getting a running
start,
>at least 9.
>
>-K

How? Explain.

FoF, page 76:
"From a standing start, a character can jump a number of meters equal to
one half his Strength minus his natural Body."

That could be interpreted as:
1) Jump = (Strength/2) - Body; or
2) Jump = (Strength -Body)/2

In option 1) the Sam would Jump (11/2)-6= -.5 meters horizantally, -.125
meters vertically.
In option 2) the Sam would Jump (11-6)/2= 2.5 meters horizontally, 0.625
meters vertically.

We originally thought that rules intended for option 1, then decided that
option 2 was the correct interpretation. However, whenever a characters
body equals or exceeds his/her strength, the char will be unable to jump.

For completeness, a running jump is equal to:
1) ((Quickness+Strength+Body)/2); or
2) (Quickness+(Strength+Body)/2)

And the above Sam would have a running jump of:
1) ((12+11-6)/2)= 8.5 meters horizontally, 2.125 meters vertically; or
2) (12+(11-6)/2)= 14.5 meters, 3.625 meters vertically.

I think the correct interpretation of the running jump rules is option 2
but since the original writers didn't spell it out with parenthasis, you
can't tell for certain. However, I think option 1 is perhaps a more
realistic interpretation... (Says the guy with not enough knowledge on
the matter :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 11
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:19:05 -0500
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:55:03 -0500 "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM> writes:
<SNIP>
>FoF, page 76:
>"From a standing start, a character can jump a number of meters equal
>to one half his Strength minus his natural Body."
>
>That could be interpreted as:
>1) Jump = (Strength/2) - Body; or
>2) Jump = (Strength -Body)/2
>
>In option 1) the Sam would Jump (11/2)-6= -.5 meters horizantally,
>-.125 meters vertically.
>In option 2) the Sam would Jump (11-6)/2= 2.5 meters horizontally,
>0.625 meters vertically.
<SNIP>
>For completeness, a running jump is equal to:
>1) ((Quickness+Strength+Body)/2); or
>2) (Quickness+(Strength+Body)/2)
>
>And the above Sam would have a running jump of:
>1) ((12+11-6)/2)= 8.5 meters horizontally, 2.125 meters vertically; or
>2) (12+(11-6)/2)= 14.5 meters, 3.625 meters vertically.
>
>I think the correct interpretation of the running jump rules is option
>2 but since the original writers didn't spell it out with parenthasis,
>you can't tell for certain. However, I think option 1 is perhaps a
>more realistic interpretation... (Says the guy with not enough
>knowledge on the matter :)

After sending this off, I decided to look into the guiness book of World
records (Btw, I interpret SR's Racial Max as the Max you're likely to see
in everyday life and 1.5x racial max as olympic/genius class stats [IOW,
the human boundry is 9, not 6].). It appears that record jumps
(horizantal distance) are about 4m standing, and 9m running. Of course
that's WITH an outstanding athletics roll ...

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 12
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:12:48 -0400
On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 02:00:39AM -0500, Michael Coleman wrote:
> Does anyone know what the current long jump records is?
>

Not off the top of my head, but remember that you don't have to just
adjust to the extremes. Use yourself as an example :) The last time I got
into this discussion, a few months ago, some quick experimentation determined
that I can do a standing broad jump of just over 2 yards (so, ~2m) with no
appreciable effort (read: no Athletics roll). I'm 6'2" feet tall,
and I'd estimate my Strength and Body to be equal (at about a 2 each - I
weight ~150 lbs). So, I'm inclined to say that someone with equal Str and Bod
should broad jump about their own height - which makes sense to me. Long legs
help a lot. However, I'm generalizing from one data point. Someone else
want to go out there and get us some more data? :)

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 13
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:18:30 -0400
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Michael Coleman wrote:

->> >
->> > In FOF it states for standing jump it is half Strength minus
->> Body (Str/2 -
->> > Body) in meters. It then say "for running jump, the character
->> may add his
->> > Quickness" and gives the formula (Quickness + Strength -
->> Body/2 = meters
->> > jumped). Now is it Str/2 or Body/2?
->> >
->> > Mike
->> If we
->> use Mathematic Hierarchy for equations, then the distance is (quickness +
->> strength) - (Body / 2). So if *that* were the option D. Ghost originally
->> gave, the guy would clear some 20 meters....hmmm...don't think so.
->>
->> Let's see, it's probably the entire plus/minus section of the
->> formula figured
->> out, then the final number divided by 2 (again, IMO, round up).
->> So it would
->> be ... (S:11/Q:12/B:5(?)) would come up with 9 meters. So I wouldn't have
->> been off in my second guess at least.
->> -K
->>
->
->So you are saying it is (Str + Qui - Body) / 2 = meters or (Str + Qui -
->(Body/2)) /2 = meters
->
->Lets take someone with Str:6, Qui:6 and Body:6
->
->The first equation is a running jump of 3 meters.
->The second is a running jump of 4.75 meters.
->
->Both seem short.

If actual numbers (if they can be called that) count for anything,
I've got about (guessing) a Body 4, Quicknes 5 (6?) and Strength 3 (4?).
I can standing broad jump about 2 meters and running long jump around
3.5-4 meters. I will also assume I do not have the Athletics Skill, or
have it at a low rating (probably defaulting from attributes). According
to the above formulas, I should jump 2 (3) meters or 3 (4) meters.
Assuming I have a 6 Quick and a 3 Str, The latter formula comes pretty
close.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 14
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:31:45 -0400
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, D. Ghost wrote:

<snip>
->FoF, page 76:
->"From a standing start, a character can jump a number of meters equal to
->one half his Strength minus his natural Body."
->
->That could be interpreted as:
->1) Jump = (Strength/2) - Body; or
->2) Jump = (Strength -Body)/2
->
->In option 1) the Sam would Jump (11/2)-6= -.5 meters horizantally, -.125
->meters vertically.
->In option 2) the Sam would Jump (11-6)/2= 2.5 meters horizontally, 0.625
->meters vertically.

Ok, and for me, I'd be at (3/2)-4= -2.5 or (3-4)/2=-.5 neither of
which works.

->We originally thought that rules intended for option 1, then decided that
->option 2 was the correct interpretation. However, whenever a characters
->body equals or exceeds his/her strength, the char will be unable to jump.
<snip running rules>

I find that highly offensive! ]:-)
I can too jump! We really should find a better formula, though.
How about: Height + (Strength - Body)/2. Short people, from my
observations, have a harder time jumping long distances whereas taller
people (like myself) have an easier time. This formula would give me a
standing distance of 1.5 meters, which is a little low (I can do 6 feet
easy), but closer than the other standing jump formulas. It'll hamper the
dwarf and ease things for the troll, but I don't see those being too bad
off. We'll have jumping Trolls (7 Body, 6 Strength, 3 meters tall = 2.5
meters) and bouncing Dwarves (4 Body, 5 Strength, 1.2 meters tall = 1.7
meters) to go along with our humans (3 Body, 3 Strength, 1.7 meters tall =
1.7 meters), Orks (5 Body, 4 Strength, 1.8 meters tall = 1.3 meters), and
Elves (3 Body, 3 Strength, 1.9 meters tall = 1.9 meters). A really small
but very strong troll (Body 5, Strength 9, 3 meters tall = 5 meters) would
be competeing with the same sort of Human (Body 1, Strength 6, 1.7 meters
tall = 4.2 meters) or Dwarf (Body 2, Strength 8, 1.2 meters tall = 4.2
meters). So doesn't seem TOO outlandish. Use Athletics to increase
Strength and things start evening out (especially if the TN is modified
Body, so +1 for the Troll).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:09:52 -0600
How about using the following simple equations for jumping?

Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
Standing Vertical: Strength/6
Running Horizontal: Quickness
Running Vertical: Quickness/4

(IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
necessarily equate with mass).

An Athletics(4) test increases the relevant attribute by one (for
purposes of jumping) for every two successes. The TN of this test may be
modified by current conditions (running on a slick or rough surface, for
example).

Running jumps assume the character has enough distance to get up to
speed (running speed for a horizontal jump, walking speed for a
vertical jump).

The height of a vertical jump is the height of the character's feet
*without* bending his knees or arching his body.

A person with Strength 4, Quickness 4, and Athletics 4 (rolls an
average of 2 successes):

Standing Horizontal: 2.5m
Standing Vertical: .83m
Running Horizontal: 5m
Running Vertical: 1.25m

A person with S:6, Q:6, and Athletics 6 (rolls 3 successes):

Standing Horizontal: 3.5m
Standing Vertical: 1.17m
Running Horizontal: 7m
Running Vertical: 1.75m

Looks good to me <shrug> :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 16
From: Matthew Waddilove <matthew@*********.U-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:18:34 +0100
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>

>In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:43:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>mscoleman@********.NET writes:
>
>>
>> In FOF it states for standing jump it is half Strength minus Body
(Str/2 -
>> Body) in meters. It then say "for running jump, the character may add
his
>> Quickness" and gives the formula (Quickness + Strength - Body/2 = meters
>> jumped). Now is it Str/2 or Body/2?
>>
>> Mike

<SNIP>


>Hydraulic Jacks act as a multiplier for the leap? WOW!!! I have HJ-6 and
the
>above character. He should have been named "SuperROO" and gone into show
>business... ;)


Hummmmmm <Crafty Idea forming>
Does anyone have and Idea How long a leap takes :)
say ohh a complex action.


Then forget running you might as well jump arround with HJ-6 and break world
records.

<innocent voice when brought infront of the olympic commitee after breaking
the WR> Well I doesnt' say I've _got_ to _run_!!!



-MAtthew Waddilove
Message no. 17
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:28:31 -0400
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, David Buehrer wrote:

->How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
->
->Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
->Standing Vertical: Strength/6
->Running Horizontal: Quickness

According to these numbers, I should be able to running long jump
15 feet, or at least 12, which (the latter) is about right. Damn, I love
KISS. ]:-)

->Running Vertical: Quickness/4
->
->(IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
->necessarily equate with mass).
->
->An Athletics(4) test increases the relevant attribute by one (for
->purposes of jumping) for every two successes. The TN of this test may be
->modified by current conditions (running on a slick or rough surface, for
->example).
->
->Running jumps assume the character has enough distance to get up to
->speed (running speed for a horizontal jump, walking speed for a
->vertical jump).
->
->The height of a vertical jump is the height of the character's feet
->*without* bending his knees or arching his body.
->
->A person with Strength 4, Quickness 4, and Athletics 4 (rolls an
->average of 2 successes):
->
->Standing Horizontal: 2.5m
->Standing Vertical: .83m
->Running Horizontal: 5m
->Running Vertical: 1.25m
->
->A person with S:6, Q:6, and Athletics 6 (rolls 3 successes):
->
->Standing Horizontal: 3.5m
->Standing Vertical: 1.17m
->Running Horizontal: 7m
->Running Vertical: 1.75m
->
->Looks good to me <shrug> :)

Looks good to me too. I like your idea better than mine. May I
steal it?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 18
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:30:43 -0400
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, David Buehrer wrote:

->Standing Vertical: Strength/6
->Running Vertical: Quickness/4
->
->The height of a vertical jump is the height of the character's feet
->*without* bending his knees or arching his body.
<multitude of various snips>

Something occured to me after I read this. What would the numbers
be if they DID bend the knees or arch the body? Or is that what using
Athletics lets you do?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 19
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:33:44 -0500
At 10:18 AM 10/5/98 -0400, Fixer wrote:
> If actual numbers (if they can be called that) count for anything,
>I've got about (guessing) a Body 4, Quicknes 5 (6?) and Strength 3 (4?).
>I can standing broad jump about 2 meters and running long jump around
>3.5-4 meters. I will also assume I do not have the Athletics Skill, or
>have it at a low rating (probably defaulting from attributes). According
>to the above formulas, I should jump 2 (3) meters or 3 (4) meters.
>Assuming I have a 6 Quick and a 3 Str, The latter formula comes pretty
>close.
>

The problem I see here is that converting SR attribute ratings to RL is
subject to interpretation. I consider myself to have Body 3, Quickness 3,
and Strength 3 (I'm an average kinda guy :)), and I can jump about the same
distances that you quoted.

BlueMule
***********
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have here...
Darth Vader
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:04:58 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Fixer wrote:
/
/ On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, David Buehrer wrote:
/
/ ->How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
/ ->
/ ->Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
/ ->Standing Vertical: Strength/6
/ ->Running Horizontal: Quickness
/
/ According to these numbers, I should be able to running long jump
/ 15 feet, or at least 12, which (the latter) is about right. Damn, I love
/ KISS. ]:-)

KISS Rules! ;)

/ ->Looks good to me <shrug> :)
/
/ Looks good to me too. I like your idea better than mine. May I
/ steal it?

Be my guest :)

I'm still trying to figure out how to factor in things like hurdling
and leaping over things.

...I think the easiest approach would be to adjust the athletics test
and say that *each* success adds one to the relevent attribute for
purposes of jumping or hurdling over or on to something. If you're
using Athletics it can be assumed that your are lifting your legs,
bending your knees, diving, or arching your body over the obstacle.
People without athletics would default to Quickness, which sounds about
right because if you haven't trained to hurdle over obstacles something
that looks easy to clear isn't (remembers an occasion when he tried to
leap over a small bush, snagged his foot, and tumbled to the ground to
the ammusement of his friends :)

So, to recap, every success from an Athletics(4) test adds one to the
relevant attribute for determining the height cleared by a vertical
jump (standing or running). Every two successes from an Athletics(4)
test adds one to the relevant attribute for determining the distance
covered by a horizontal jump (standing or running).

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:37:18 +0200
According to David Buehrer, at 9:09 on 5 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
>
> Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
> Standing Vertical: Strength/6
> Running Horizontal: Quickness
> Running Vertical: Quickness/4
>
> (IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
> necessarily equate with mass).

Agreed, though unfortunately FASA seems fixated on the idea that it
does...

> An Athletics(4) test increases the relevant attribute by one (for
> purposes of jumping) for every two successes. The TN of this test may be
> modified by current conditions (running on a slick or rough surface, for
> example).

And wounds, of course. (Better to mention them, to stop ruleslawyers in
their tracks :)

> The height of a vertical jump is the height of the character's feet
> *without* bending his knees or arching his body.

Erm... I _think_ I know what you mean, but this may need some
clarification. Unless I'm mistaken, you mean that a character who has a
Quickness of 4 can get his or her feet a meter off the ground in a running
jump, right? Which, if said character is 1.75 m tall, would put the top of
the head at 2.75 m above the ground.

> Looks good to me <shrug> :)

Yeah, I think I'll start using this for those rare times when it matters
how high/far PCs can jump (last time this came up, we solved it with a
rope, even though it took along time for the GM to understand what I was
trying to do. I guess it was too simple for him to grasp :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:37:18 +0200
According to Fixer, at 12:30 on 5 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> ->The height of a vertical jump is the height of the character's feet
> ->*without* bending his knees or arching his body.
>
> Something occured to me after I read this. What would the numbers
> be if they DID bend the knees or arch the body? Or is that what using
> Athletics lets you do?

I'd say it just increases the clearance between the ground and the
character's feet, but the height reached by the head doesn't change. I
pretty much assume people who jump pull up their legs -- try jumping to
any height _without_ doing that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 23
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:45:47 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:36:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> > (IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
> > necessarily equate with mass).
>
> Agreed, though unfortunately FASA seems fixated on the idea that it
> does...

Okay then, why doesn't it? Gurth, you are a light build guy, and I'm a
heavier build guy. For some reason, I think you could probably run a bit
faster (at least on the acceleration side of things) than I. You are likely
to be able to clear more distance because of it.

Yes, I know I am also stronger than you are, but my mass is going to play
against me as well.

Body has a LOT to do with it. Whenever you view the leapers from athletics
events, you do not see a particularly overweight kind of person doing so.
They are slimmer, leaner, and often times, taller. Heavier people are simply
not built to handle such activities as efficiently as lighter build
individuals are.

Hell, you want evil concerning leaps? How about rules for a kind of leap that
SR has no rules for whatsoever?

Pole Vaulting-

Body comes into play there as well, but from two angles of approach. The
ability of the pole to leverage the force/mass into the direct action, and the
ability of the vaulter to overcome the resistance of gravity enough to vault
the distance(s) they need to.

In short, I really think everyone should look beyond their own body and
consider leaping as it really is. All of the physical aspects come into play,
and Body is definitely the final *hurdle* to be overcome in doing so.

-K
Message no. 24
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:55:34 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, K in the Shadows wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 10/5/1998 12:36:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ gurth@******.NL writes:
/
/ >
/ > > (IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
/ > > necessarily equate with mass).
/ >
/ > Agreed, though unfortunately FASA seems fixated on the idea that it
/ > does...
/
/ Okay then, why doesn't it?

Well, IMHO Body equates with an individual's ability to resist physical
damage and disease. But, just because a person has a high Body doesn't
mean that they have a high body mass.

Gurth, you are a light build guy, and I'm a
/ heavier build guy. For some reason, I think you could probably run a bit
/ faster (at least on the acceleration side of things) than I. You are likely
/ to be able to clear more distance because of it.
/
/ Yes, I know I am also stronger than you are, but my mass is going to play
/ against me as well.

Agreed. But does your heavy build mean that you have a high Body? Are
you more resistant to physical damage and disease just because you have
a heavy build?

/ In short, I really think everyone should look beyond their own body and
/ consider leaping as it really is. All of the physical aspects come into play,
/ and Body is definitely the final *hurdle* to be overcome in doing so.

Body *mass* is a definite hurdle (...ouch, that's a bad pun). However,
I feel that the attribute Body does not equate with a person's body
mass. That's why I don't think that the attribute Body should play a
role in how far or how high a person can leap or jump.

Now, if a character is heavy, big, or fat, then I would adjust their
leaping and jumping appropriately.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 25
From: "Marcel \"rab\" Emami" <rab@***.INFORMATIK.UNI-MANNHEIM.DE>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:59:04 +0200
Just to make things complicated, what about charcters with equipment ?
or DO you know any shadowrunner, who tries tojump without at least one gun in
his/her hand and ammo until x-mas?

Kruss und Guss
Rab
E-mail: Rab@***.informatik.uni-mannheim.de
WWW : http://fim.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/~rab
GeekCode 3.0:
GM d-(+) s: a- C+(+++) U+ P? L>+ N K? w+$ o-->++ M V? PS+(++) PE-(--)
Y@ PGP@ t-(---) 5++ X@ R+++>$ tv+ b++ DI D++ G+
e+ h r+ y+
Message no. 26
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:00:28 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 3:55:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

>
> Body *mass* is a definite hurdle (...ouch, that's a bad pun). However,
> I feel that the attribute Body does not equate with a person's body
> mass. That's why I don't think that the attribute Body should play a
> role in how far or how high a person can leap or jump.
>
> Now, if a character is heavy, big, or fat, then I would adjust their
> leaping and jumping appropriately.

Okay, overall, I think we sort of agree, believe it or not. Heavy (as in,
overweight) people are not going to have as good a time at making the big
leaps as a person that "in shape." However, I would also like to point out
that Athletics DOES play a major part in leaping in SR, and most of the people
out there that are making comparisons at least appear to be speaking from the
point of Track & Field.

Okay, here we go.

Jesse Owens was fast and could jump like a 'roo for the fun of it. He was
tall, slender, in excellent shape overall, and had trained extensively for the
stuff he did. I would say, that using SR3 mechanics, Athletics could easily
be a Complimentary "Skill" for leaping, in much the same way that Aura Reading
is with regards to Intelligence for assensing. The only problem to this, is
that for some goofball reason, Athletics was tied to Body directly.

Leaping and/or Running should IMO be connected with Quickness and/or Strength.
Strength for Leaping, Quickness for Running.

Roll the attribute and/or skill in question against the target number (someone
was making suggestions earlier) and a success indicates well, it indicates
success. Perhaps the target number could be modified by the difference in the
character's body and/or strength. For instance, let's say the target number
is the distance to be jumped (in meters).

The target number is increased by the Body of the individual, and decreased by
the Strength, to create a Net Target number. A success indicates a successful
jumping/leaping attempt. In much the same way that under non-combative
situations, Handling is a single success for vehicle actions (looking for a
comparison and/or consistent frame here).

Additional successes could mean different things of course.

Better quality of leap.
More distance to the leap available.
Possibly a "Dodging" action if the person in question is making the leap while
trying to avoid an incoming attack.

-K (further thoughts, suggestions???)
Message no. 27
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:21:59 -0500
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:10 AM
>
> How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
>
> Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
> Standing Vertical: Strength/6
> Running Horizontal: Quickness
> Running Vertical: Quickness/4
>
> Looks good to me <shrug> :)
>
> -David


It looks good to me also.

Mike
Message no. 28
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:32:09 +0200
According to Marcel \, at 22:59 on 5 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

(<GridSec>Marcel, have a reply-to field set in your mailer. Please make it
blank.</GridSec>)

> Just to make things complicated, what about charcters with equipment ?
> or DO you know any shadowrunner, who tries tojump without at least one gun in
> his/her hand and ammo until x-mas?

This reaches back to the encumbrance thread we had a few weeks ago, I
guess. What's probably needed is a full set of rules involving all common
athletic actions, such as running, jumping, climbing, and so on and that
also takes into account the carrying of equipment while doing these
things. It should be possible to cobble this together from existing rules,
with a bit of work.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 29
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:32:09 +0200
According to K in the Shadows, at 15:45 on 5 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> > > (IMHO, Body should *not* be part of the equations. Body does not
> > > necessarily equate with mass).
> >
> > Agreed, though unfortunately FASA seems fixated on the idea that it
> > does...
>
> Okay then, why doesn't it? Gurth, you are a light build guy, and I'm a
> heavier build guy. For some reason, I think you could probably run a bit
> faster (at least on the acceleration side of things) than I. You are likely
> to be able to clear more distance because of it.

I was referring to the second sentence I quoted: "Body does not
necessarily equate with mass". I can see it come into the athletics
equations for the reasons you mentioned, but at the same time if you look
at the formulas FASA published for calculating body weight, then every
skinny person would have a very low Body, while all fat people have a very
high Body rating. I see it much more as a kind of stamina, which you can
have if you're skinny or fat (and going by that, I'd say I have a low Body
in SR terms, not because I happen to weigh very little for my height).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 30
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:29:52 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, K in the Shadows wrote:
/
/ that for some goofball reason, Athletics was tied to Body directly.

Should have been tied to Quickness IMHO <shrug>.

/ Leaping and/or Running should IMO be connected with Quickness and/or Strength.
/ Strength for Leaping, Quickness for Running.
/
/ Roll the attribute and/or skill in question against the target number (someone
/ was making suggestions earlier) and a success indicates well, it indicates
/ success. Perhaps the target number could be modified by the difference in the
/ character's body and/or strength. For instance, let's say the target number
/ is the distance to be jumped (in meters).

It won't work. The problem is that with the Rule of Six it's possible
(however slight) to get a success vs any target number. So, a
character could attempt to leap 30m and by sheer luck, and/or a lot of
karma, roll a success.

/ -K (further thoughts, suggestions???)

I prefer an equation that gives the maximum distance/height a character
can clear based on quickness or strength, that can be increased by
Athletics. Any test should be based on the GM's judgement (the landing
site is wet, make a Quickness(6) test to stay on your feet).

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 31
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:31:29 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Gurth wrote:
/
/ According to Marcel \, at 22:59 on 5 Oct 98, the word on the street was...
/
/ > Just to make things complicated, what about charcters with equipment ?
/>or DO you know any shadowrunner, who tries tojump without at least one gun in
/ > his/her hand and ammo until x-mas?
/
/ This reaches back to the encumbrance thread we had a few weeks ago, I
/ guess. What's probably needed is a full set of rules involving all common
/ athletic actions, such as running, jumping, climbing, and so on and that
/ also takes into account the carrying of equipment while doing these
/ things. It should be possible to cobble this together from existing rules,
/ with a bit of work.

Does this mean you're willing to volunteer? :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 32
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:31:59 -0700
:> How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
:>
:> Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
:> Standing Vertical: Strength/6
:> Running Horizontal: Quickness
:> Running Vertical: Quickness/4
:>
:> Looks good to me <shrug> :)
:>
:> -David
:


HMM, so your average troll (str 8 / quick 2) jumps farther and higher
if he stands still first? I realize Its not average for a Shadowrunner,
but a running jump should always, afaik, be longer than a standing one.

Mongoose
Message no. 33
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Jumping and Leaping
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:03:19 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Mongoose wrote:
/
/ :> How about using the following simple equations for jumping?
/ :>
/ :> Standing Horizontal: Strength/2
/ :> Standing Vertical: Strength/6
/ :> Running Horizontal: Quickness
/ :> Running Vertical: Quickness/4
/ :>
/ :> Looks good to me <shrug> :)
/ :>
/ :> -David
/
/ HMM, so your average troll (str 8 / quick 2) jumps farther and higher
/ if he stands still first? I realize Its not average for a Shadowrunner,
/ but a running jump should always, afaik, be longer than a standing one.

Good catch, I completely missed that. Methinks the equations need a
little tweaking. Plus, the standing vertical isn't right.

Standing Leap: Strength/2
Standing Jump: Strength/3
Running Leap: (Quickness*Running Multiplier)/6 + Strength/2
Running Jump: (Quickness*Running Multiplier)/12 + Strength/3

Note, when jumping this is the maximum height of an obstacle that can
be cleared. If a character is trying to jump over an obstacle with a
height greater than half of their maximum jump, it is assumed that they
are diving over the obstacle. A character may jump on to an obstacle
(and land on his feet) with a height equal to or less than half his
maximum jump.

An Athletics(4) test may be made to increase running leaps and jumps.
Each success adds one to the character's quickness for determining the
distance leaped or height jumped. This test is made while the
character is leaping or jumping. (It can't be made before the test to
see if the character will "make it".)

If the character is encumbered (or heavy or overweight) the encumbrance
value is subtracted from their Strength for determining the distance
leaped or height jumped.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Jumping and Leaping, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!