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From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Mon, 05 Jul 1999 18:17:22 -0300

Message no. 1 So, reading through my recently acquired Shadowrun Companion 3rd.
Ed., I naturally happened upon the ghoul rules (s'cool, fool). Didn't
have a problem with most of it, except for two things...

Numero uno (easy one)

It says that ghoul characters have the Blind Flaw. Now, reading the
Blind Flaw, it states that "Cyber-replacement eyes cannot correct the
Blind Flaw" (SRC3, p19). But, ghouls, it says, "use cybereyes to
overcome this problem" (SRC3, p33). So, go by the Flaw, and cybereyes
have no effect, or go by the rest of the material, including Bug City
(and maybe T:UCAS, haven't read it), and rule that blind ghouls with
cybereyes have their vision restored?

Numero dos (my first attempt at an as-far-as-I-know-it's-original House Rule)

Ghouls have to roll on a table (p 33) to determine the effects of the
viral infection...this is the only random bit of character creation in
Shadowrun, and no sir, I don't like it. So, to make it a matter of
choice, I propose the following: instead of rolling on the Body scale,
one must purchase the level one wants with building points.
Standard functional ghoul costs 10 points, just like the book says.
+1 to Willpower costs 14 points. -1 Charisma (personality mostly
intact) costs 8 points, -1 to Intelligence and Charisma (some semblance
of personality left) costs 6 points (I might not allow this option as a
GM). I definitely wouldn't allow the lowest option, where the
personality is little more than an animal (that's a Critter, not a PC).

I'd welcome criticism on this...are the point values to high, low,
stupid? And, a major problem I see right away is, how does Body figure
into it (as it does in the by-the-book rules)? I can't see a way to do
it..maybe make higher Body characters pay less points for each option,
lower Body pay more? That's just changing what you spend points on
though...frustrating.

Anyway, I'm ready for input! C'mon, you House Rule junkies :)

-Murder of One

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:41:14 EDT

Message no. 2 In a message dated 7/5/1999 4:19:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

> Numero uno (easy one)
> It says that ghoul characters have the Blind Flaw. Now, reading the
> Blind Flaw, it states that "Cyber-replacement eyes cannot correct the
> Blind Flaw" (SRC3, p19). But, ghouls, it says, "use cybereyes to
> overcome this problem" (SRC3, p33). So, go by the Flaw, and cybereyes
> have no effect, or go by the rest of the material, including Bug City
> (and maybe T:UCAS, haven't read it), and rule that blind ghouls with
> cybereyes have their vision restored?

Actually, there is a considerable bit of information that is missing here.
First Generation ghouls *do* have this option. Second Generation ghouls
(those born from Ghoul Parents...what a thought...imagine surviving a random
hunger pang ;-) however are genetically bred into blindness, and as such,
cybereyes would have no effect.

Please note, I could be misinterpreting the information in the books you were
mentioning, but it is something to consider nonetheless.

> Numero dos (my first attempt at an as-far-as-I-know-it's-original House
Rule)
> Ghouls have to roll on a table (p 33) to determine the effects of the
> viral infection...this is the only random bit of character creation in
> Shadowrun, and no sir, I don't like it. So, to make it a matter of
> choice, I propose the following: instead of rolling on the Body scale,
> one must purchase the level one wants with building points.
> Standard functional ghoul costs 10 points, just like the book says.
> +1 to Willpower costs 14 points. -1 Charisma (personality mostly
> intact) costs 8 points, -1 to Intelligence and Charisma (some semblance
> of personality left) costs 6 points (I might not allow this option as a
> GM). I definitely wouldn't allow the lowest option, where the
> personality is little more than an animal (that's a Critter, not a PC).
>
> I'd welcome criticism on this...are the point values to high, low,
> stupid? And, a major problem I see right away is, how does Body figure
> into it (as it does in the by-the-book rules)? I can't see a way to do
> it..maybe make higher Body characters pay less points for each option,
> lower Body pay more? That's just changing what you spend points on
> though...frustrating.
> Anyway, I'm ready for input! C'mon, you House Rule junkies :)

With regards to this last suggestion, I believe you are making the character
creation a tad bit too difficult. Sure, it may work and create the effect
that you may be searching for, but it may later on be discovered that you
gave up a much needed skill or set of skills or something similar.

-K

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:13:04 -0300

Message no. 3 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Ereskanti@***.com."
] Actually, there is a considerable bit of information that is missing here.
] First Generation ghouls *do* have this option. Second Generation ghouls
] (those born from Ghoul Parents...what a thought...imagine surviving a
random
] hunger pang ;-) however are genetically bred into blindness, and as such,
] cybereyes would have no effect.

I'm drawing a blank here, refresh my memory for me: First Generation
means you were infected, Second Generation means you were born a
ghoul...issat right? If that's correct, it sounds like a decent
compromise, one benefiting from cyber, and one not.

] > Ghouls have to roll on a table (p 33) to determine the effects of the
] > viral infection...this is the only random bit of character creation in
] > Shadowrun, and no sir, I don't like it. So, to make it a matter of
] > choice, I propose the following: instead of rolling on the Body scale,
] > one must purchase the level one wants with building points.
] > Standard functional ghoul costs 10 points, just like the book says.
] > +1 to Willpower costs 14 points. -1 Charisma (personality mostly
] > intact) costs 8 points, -1 to Intelligence and Charisma (some semblance
] > of personality left) costs 6 points (I might not allow this option as a
] > GM). I definitely wouldn't allow the lowest option, where the
] > personality is little more than an animal (that's a Critter, not a PC).
] >
] > I'd welcome criticism on this...are the point values to high, low,
] > stupid? And, a major problem I see right away is, how does Body figure
] > into it (as it does in the by-the-book rules)? I can't see a way to do
] > it..maybe make higher Body characters pay less points for each option,
] > lower Body pay more? That's just changing what you spend points on
] > though...frustrating.
] > Anyway, I'm ready for input! C'mon, you House Rule junkies :)

I meant Willpower here, BTW.

] With regards to this last suggestion, I believe you are making the
character
] creation a tad bit too difficult. Sure, it may work and create the effect
] that you may be searching for, but it may later on be discovered that you
] gave up a much needed skill or set of skills or something similar.

I think you're probably right. Do you mean it'd be better to nix the
aspect that involves Willpower, or the whole thing (and thus stick with
the random roll and its effects)?

-Murder of One

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:46:17 EDT

Message no. 4 In a message dated 7/5/1999 9:14:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Ereskanti@***.com."
> ] Actually, there is a considerable bit of information that is missing
here.
> ] First Generation ghouls *do* have this option. Second Generation ghouls
> ] (those born from Ghoul Parents...what a thought...imagine surviving a
> random
> ] hunger pang ;-) however are genetically bred into blindness, and as
such,
> ] cybereyes would have no effect.
>
> I'm drawing a blank here, refresh my memory for me: First Generation
> means you were infected, Second Generation means you were born a
> ghoul...issat right? If that's correct, it sounds like a decent
> compromise, one benefiting from cyber, and one not.

that is what I was trying to state, yes. Sorry if I lost you (I often need
extra sets of directions around Mike B., so don't feel left out ;-P).

> ] > Ghouls have to roll on a table (p 33) to determine the effects of
the
> ] > viral infection...this is the only random bit of character creation in
> ] > Shadowrun, and no sir, I don't like it. So, to make it a matter of
> ] > choice, I propose the following: instead of rolling on the Body scale,
> ] > one must purchase the level one wants with building points.
> ] > Standard functional ghoul costs 10 points, just like the book says.
> ] > +1 to Willpower costs 14 points. -1 Charisma (personality mostly
> ] > intact) costs 8 points, -1 to Intelligence and Charisma (some
semblance
> ] > of personality left) costs 6 points (I might not allow this option as
a
> ] > GM). I definitely wouldn't allow the lowest option, where the
> ] > personality is little more than an animal (that's a Critter, not a
PC).
> ] >
> ] > I'd welcome criticism on this...are the point values to high, low,
> ] > stupid? And, a major problem I see right away is, how does Body
figure
> ] > into it (as it does in the by-the-book rules)? I can't see a way to
do
> ] > it..maybe make higher Body characters pay less points for each option,
> ] > lower Body pay more? That's just changing what you spend points on
> ] > though...frustrating.
> ] > Anyway, I'm ready for input! C'mon, you House Rule junkies :)
>
> I meant Willpower here, BTW.

Okay.

> ] With regards to this last suggestion, I believe you are making the
> character
> ] creation a tad bit too difficult. Sure, it may work and create the
effect
> ] that you may be searching for, but it may later on be discovered that
you
> ] gave up a much needed skill or set of skills or something similar.
>
> I think you're probably right. Do you mean it'd be better to nix the
> aspect that involves Willpower, or the whole thing (and thus stick with
> the random roll and its effects)?

Personally, though I do NOT like the concept of purely random die rolls
involved in a character generation system like SR#, but on occasion a bit of
pure random chaos often helps to build a good role-play challenge and some
fun later on down the road. If it were me, I'd probably go for a bit of
constructive character innovation with the GM on the side (if possible) and
see if something cool can be derived from it later.

-K

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Tue, 06 Jul 1999 01:07:36 -0300

Message no. 5 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Ereskanti@***.com."
] that is what I was trying to state, yes. Sorry if I lost you (I often need
] extra sets of directions around Mike B., so don't feel left out ;-P).

S'alright :)

] Personally, though I do NOT like the concept of purely random die rolls
] involved in a character generation system like SR#, but on occasion a
bit of
] pure random chaos often helps to build a good role-play challenge and some
] fun later on down the road. If it were me, I'd probably go for a bit of
] constructive character innovation with the GM on the side (if possible) and
] see if something cool can be derived from it later.

Cool...thanks for the input!

-Murder of One

From:	runnerpaul@***.com runnerpaul@***.com
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 06:17 PM 7/5/99 -0300, Scott Wheelock wrote:
> Ghouls have to roll on a table (p 33) to determine the effects of
>the
>viral infection...this is the only random bit of character creation
>in
>Shadowrun, and no sir, I don't like it.

Only bit?
BBB3, p.63, under Starting Nuyen:
"Roll 3d6 and multiply the total result by 100¥."

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
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C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

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From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Tue, 06 Jul 1999 13:26:15 -0300

Message no. 7 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to runnerpaul@*****.com."
] Only bit?
] BBB3, p.63, under Starting Nuyen:
] "Roll 3d6 and multiply the total result by 100¥."

Touche (minus the accent). However, I've never used starting cash.
If I did, I'd maximize it for every character. Death to the random
elements!

-Murder of One

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:07:22 EDT

Message no. 8 In a message dated 7/6/99 12:28:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to runnerpaul@*****.com."
> ] Only bit?
> ] BBB3, p.63, under Starting Nuyen:
> ] "Roll 3d6 and multiply the total result by 100¥."

You know, if you use staring Spell Points as Karma to create an Ally at
Chargen, you also have to roll randomly to see which spell it learns.

Twist

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Just another ghoul question
Date:	Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:32:47 -0300

Message no. 9 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Twist0059@***.com."
] In a message dated 7/6/99 12:28:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
] iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:
]
] > "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to runnerpaul@*****.com."
] > ] Only bit?
] > ] BBB3, p.63, under Starting Nuyen:
] > ] "Roll 3d6 and multiply the total result by 100¥."
]
] You know, if you use staring Spell Points as Karma to create an Ally at
] Chargen, you also have to roll randomly to see which spell it learns.
] Twist

All right.

That's enough.

I don't care what other examples you all can dredge up out of your
twisted little rulebook-memorizing brains, I don't want to hear 'em.

(Scott breaks down in a fit of tears..."I'm wrong, I know! Can't you
all just stop it?")

-Murder of One

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