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Message no. 1
From: 90824840@***.UWPLATT.EDU
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 18:41:00 CST
Hmmmmm...

On runs I GM and runs i'm in it's usually:
Average Karma 4-5
Average Time 5-7 hours

I've been runnin shadows for quite awhile and quite often, and I still don't
come anywhere near the Karma I've been seein'. But then again, each GM to
his own. Not to sound curious, but about how many of these "very powerful"
characters have? (i.e. Doom, Tailhook, etc..)
Just curious of course... :)

-Storm

>>>>>[Never welcome the calm...]<<<<<
Message no. 2
From: jlkim%sdcc3.ucsd.edu@****.BITNET
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 17:57:09 -0800
For each run, my GM would award 4-5 karma. If we were *really* good or the
adventure was *really* hard, 6 or 7 points. Each run would be a couple of
sessions, maybe two 8 hour sessions, depending on the signal to noise ratio
in the room.

My GM was a little freeer with the money. We usually cleaned up with the
salvage (captured weapons, mostly) and fees. Then again, the GM(s) so
handicapped magical healing that we had *big* doctor's bills (targets to
heal cybered people were so high that the they were effectively impossible
to heal. Drain was also tweaked so that the mage almost always lost
consiousness after an attempt).

Justin
--------------
Justin Kim
jlkim@****.edu
Graduate School of International Relations/
Pacific Studies. UC-San Diego
--------------
"University flunkies are easily outwitted"--Chalmers Johnson
Message no. 3
From: "Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Karma awards.
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 92 02:57:15 CET
[I forgot to say that basically one run lasts roughly
[35 hours
[We play once a week and play for seven hours each session.
[Since we only play in the summer, this means I've only
[been on about 8 runs (two summers of playing).
[Oh, and I really hope your not on here Scott, I might
[feel about this small *gestures with fingers* if my GM
[decided to tell all. Just kidding, can't you take a joke.
[Now HEY put that Vindicator down, I didn't *VRRRRRRRR* mean any
[disrespect! *CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK
[CLICK* HA HA REALLY FUNNY!!
[ -Harlequin <Who was not here/He he he>

>Heh, heh, heh. We get anywhere from 6 to 11 points of karma normally.
Mean is somewhere around 8. The last time we got over the top end there, was
when the entire group entered astral space (via some sort of gateway) and had
to fight a toxic insect totem in its home environment. Very bad, evil pooky. We
had to bring back the Ghost Dance in order to survive. We lost a year of our
lives there, and it was very, very nasty. I don't ever want to do that again.
Then we ended up in Houston and decided that it would be better to just move the
base of operations there rather than go back to Seattle where there was a
full-scale manhunt for us. Not a boring lifestyle, chummers. Take it from the
sasquatch. Right Doom?

>>--Flare
>>>>><<-Fidgit->>


Dark Thought Publications & Doom Technologies, Inc.
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
Message no. 4
From: Mark Scheef <SCHEEF@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 12:37:52 -0600
>250 karma is about 10-20 runs/sessions
> I personally have gained about more than 35 total in the few weeks that
>weeks that I have been playing Stieth.

To Each GM His Own...however,

In our SRII runs, we give/receive about 1-7 karma for a full
completed run. 1 Karma means we got our a** kicked, 7 means we did
it exceptionally brilliantly (spelled l-u-c-k-y ).
Our average run is about 4 karma. However, if it runs through two
or more sessions, this average usually jumps to 5 or 6.
Long Campaigns are divided into sections (usually by completed goals),
and karma is given/received as above.

BTW, the way we play it, and the way I think it's in the book, is
the first of every 10 karma received is taken from good karma and put
into the karma pool.

In SRI runs, I can't give a completely helpful suggestion on karma,
since even I thought the karma awards were low. We received approx.
1-3 karma, with 1 being a good job and 3 being a campaign. That was
with the first shadowrun GM I ever played with, and advancement was
S....l...o....w. The amount I listed for SRII goes much better. :)


-Claw

>>>>[Imagine Fezzick...Troll Sized]<<<<
Message no. 5
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Subject: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:48:41 -0600
I was curious, after gming last weekend's game, what kind of karma award
other gm's give out?

This curiosity stems from the fact that the SRII book gives a detailed
description of how much to give out, yet it seems to me at least, the
published adventures seem to be much more generous.

I was wondering if any other gm's have varied their own personal rules
for karma awards, and if so, how?

Jim
Message no. 6
From: Ziggy <Zithelp@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:42:21 -0800
James Paulsen wrote:
>
> I was curious, after gming last weekend's game, what kind of karma award
> other gm's give out?
>
> This curiosity stems from the fact that the SRII book gives a detailed
> description of how much to give out, yet it seems to me at least, the
> published adventures seem to be much more generous.
>
> I was wondering if any other gm's have varied their own personal rules
> for karma awards, and if so, how?
>
> Jim

I like to give karma out very sparingly, otherwise you get charecters
_way_ to powerful. Usually I hand out somewhere from 7-9 total out of a
group of 5.

Ziggy
-Code Red
Message no. 7
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:52:53 -0600
The average award I've been giving out is five to seven, depending on the
complexity of the run, the obsticles overcome, and how well the players
stayed in character. One run had an average of four points, another had an
average of nine or so.


Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:08:32 -0700
Faux Pas wrote:
|
| The average award I've been giving out is five to seven, depending on the
| complexity of the run, the obsticles overcome, and how well the players
| stayed in character. One run had an average of four points, another had an
| average of nine or so.

My adventures are running in the realm of 20 karma at the
moment. However, the characters have received an average
of 300+ good karma at this point, so the adventures I run
for them aren't easy :) (And they do pick up a lot of the
roleplaying awards.)

-David

P.S. An adventure equals six or more fun-packed 5-hour sessions.
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 9
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:45:14 -0800
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Ziggy wrote:

> I like to give karma out very sparingly, otherwise you get charecters
> _way_ to powerful. Usually I hand out somewhere from 7-9 total out of a
> group of 5.
>
> Ziggy
> -Code Red
>

Is that per session or per game/senario?

~Tim (who has a hard time believing that the PCs net less than 2 per run).
Message no. 10
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:47:10 +0100
So here's one answer:
I usually award four to six karma for a full run with all sorts of
things to do ... decking, fire-fighting, running, thinking, in short
everything that I as GM can think of :)
Last week, after starting a new campaign, I awarded two and three
karma. One point for the micro-'run I put up to give the single PCs an
ability to meet, and up to two karma for a good character background.
That Idea comes from this list, of course :)
Generally, I award one point for surviving, one point for a player who
gives us a good laugh (can be gained only once per run), one point for
completing the quest, one point for good roleplaying, and one point for
every sub-goal of the run. This could be everything that the one who
pays for the run wants beside the main goal, e.g. leaving no trace to
him or killing a special person, or everything I as GM expect from the
PCs as an extension of good roleplaying, e.g. not killing the
opposition but sneaking through them unnoticed and thus avoiding a
fight.
Of course, with this way of awarding karma it's difficult to gain more
than 6, 10 at max, karma for one run, so I too don't like the awards
sometimes suggested in published adventures.

--
Arno
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Message no. 11
From: Ziggy <Zithelp@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:46:25 -0800
Tim Cooper wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Ziggy wrote:
>
> > I like to give karma out very sparingly, otherwise you get charecters
> > _way_ to powerful. Usually I hand out somewhere from 7-9 total out of a
> > group of 5.
> >
> > Ziggy
> > -Code Red
> >
>
> Is that per session or per game/senario?
>
> ~Tim (who has a hard time believing that the PCs net less than 2 per run).

Per Run, of course I've never experianced good TT rp. Its hard to keep
focused. Any suggestions?

Ziggy
-Leepless skin.
Message no. 12
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:15:40 -0800
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Ziggy wrote:

> Tim Cooper wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Ziggy wrote:
> >
> > > I like to give karma out very sparingly, otherwise you get charecters
> > > _way_ to powerful. Usually I hand out somewhere from 7-9 total out of a
> > > group of 5.
> > >
> > > Ziggy
> > > -Code Red
> > >
> >
> > Is that per session or per game/senario?
> >
> > ~Tim (who has a hard time believing that the PCs net less than 2 per run).
>
> Per Run, of course I've never experianced good TT rp. Its hard to keep
> focused. Any suggestions?
>
> Ziggy
> -Leepless skin.
>

Your handing out less than 2 karma PER RUN!! I'm surprised you have any
players... While I don't advocate handing out truckloads of Karma, the
guidlines in the rule book are more than adequate. Unless of course your
player's just seem to be barely able to do more than SURVIVE your runs let
alone acomplish anything in them (1 karma for surviving, 1 for completeing
goals - or 1/goal, +1-3 for threat level, +1 for Role-playing, etc...)

Are your runs little one-nighter's or are they multi-session? You know
something that might help them keep focused is the possibility of gaining
enough karma to actually DO something with their characters. (Unless,
again they are complete failures.)

Most of the Karma that I've handed out for the average run was between 2
and 6 (or higher if it was a particularly long, difficult run) per run.
And most of our runs end up fairly short, only 2 or 3 sessions of at least
5 hours each. It also depends greatly on the GM, another GM in our group
(we take turns) tends to be quite generous in Karma (once we all decided
to ignore what he gave us and lower it by about 30% for reality's sake).

You want to encourage RP, then give them some chances to (and maybe up the
ante on it's reward). Have them spend whole blocks of the game in social
situations to encourage acting in character...have them spend one night
sitting in a fellow runner's apartment watching the Urban Brawl game (we
had fun with that one.). Ease them into dramatic situations.... I don't
know..

I don't have much more to say other than good luck.

~Tim (who want's to go and at least eat LUNCH before 7pm)
Message no. 13
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:21:52 +0000
> I was curious, after gming last weekend's game, what kind of karma award
> other gm's give out?
>
> This curiosity stems from the fact that the SRII book gives a detailed
> description of how much to give out, yet it seems to me at least, the
> published adventures seem to be much more generous.

The Karma awards in the adventures are those for completing the
goals/surviving/threat-level. You can always adapt them to your own
needs (ie. if it was too easy for the players, give them less than
suggested - unless it was easy for them, because they had a really
cunning plan).
We usually hand out between 6 and 12 Karma for three sessions (each 6
hours), but only 4 karma are for completing/surviving/threat - the
rest is roleplaying. I even experienced a run where a player got
negative karma, while the rest of the group had an average of 6..:-)
(that was, when a player started a new physad with a heavy
emphasis on stealth and athletics. Unfortunately the adventure wasn't
so that he could use his abilities very much. He got disappointed
with his char and spoiled the whole run for all the other players by
constantly chatting about other things, disturbing the game play and
pissing off important NPCs)

Bye Mike
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:35:31 GMT
Compiled notes, long.

I have seen various methods proposed.

The system as given in SR2 is if used sensibly nicely balanced, gives
reasonable awards and rewards good players well as you should earn
about 1/2 your karma as team and 1/2 as personal, the inept but
trying won't be totally blasted and the really good get some icing
for their pains.

It is very notable that some of the FASA adventures give out a LOT
more team award than suggested in SR2.
Anything against bugs or toxic shamen usually, where you get 3 to 5
karma on avaerage for each hive trashed / toxic killed etc, generaly
'we are the good guys /superheros honest' stuff.

For comparing awards i would advise comparing 'award per hour of
playing time' rather than per adventure / session etc as folks
playing patterns are so variable.

I find that 1 point of karma per hour of playing is reasonable for
reasonably difficult runs, nothing earth shattering, done by
reasonable players.
2 point per hour is typical for the 'big' FASA stuff, eg UB, DE, HB
etc. DE can earn > 3/hour which is pretty high!

The solution to personal karma is to keep track of awards as they
occur, this saves the GM trying to remember who did what later,
however i find this about doubles the amount earnt for laughs /
roleplaying / ideas as i remember to record most rather than a few of
the points for them!

Generally speaking short adventures are more valuable then long ones,
simple that 1threat, 1 survival, 1 success plus 1 roleplaying
(assuming thy did reasonably) for a 'sprawl site run' adds up real
fast if they do three or four of these in a 7 or 8 hour game.
Long GM written stuff on the other had is 'average' would maybe
produce 15 - 20 points over 2 such sessions.

For comparision it took me around 45 hours playing time to run HB,
for top awards in the 90's, an adventure i wrote myself involving a
lot of travel i ran later average 45karma over a similar period.
I have been giving out a lot in one of the games i'm runing at the
moment but they have been doing a lot of 'big' runs (20 karma for an
8 hour session), but then some Sundays were only 8-10/ character so.

------
On FASA adventures, i have only read one so far but the mission one i
have read stuck to the SR2 guidelines.

Mark
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:53:40 +0100
James Paulsen said on 10:48/13 Feb 97...

> I was curious, after gming last weekend's game, what kind of karma award
> other gm's give out?
>
> This curiosity stems from the fact that the SRII book gives a detailed
> description of how much to give out, yet it seems to me at least, the
> published adventures seem to be much more generous.

The adventures follow a logic all of their own, sometimes. I tend to stick
with the guidelines given in SRII, except for published adventures where I
use the awards suggested there (unless I see good reason to modify them,
like during Queen Euphoria, that's basically two adventures in one book).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Watching re-runs on my TV.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 16
From: John Chisum <jdc@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:36:10 -0800
James Paulsen wrote:
<snippers come out...>
> This curiosity stems from the fact that the SRII book gives a detailed
> description of how much to give out, yet it seems to me at least, the
> published adventures seem to be much more generous.

In the SRI adventures, yeah, they seemed to be generous at times, but
take a close look at some of them, in particular "Queen Euphoria", "One
Stage Before" and "Maria Murcial at Underworld 93". Those can be some
tough runs. Queen Euphoria is really two adventures in one and the
second part can be a pain for the group (but fun for the GM...BIG EVIL
GRIN...bugs, gotta love'em). When all else fails, stick to the
guidelines and you shouldn't have any problems. The recent adventures
are pretty much falling in the guidelines.


> I was wondering if any other gm's have varied their own personal rules
> for karma awards, and if so, how?

I always ask myself these questions:

1. How tough is the run? (Example: Simple snatch, 1 to 3 base karma.
Romp though you friendly local Azzie Archology (gulp!) 4 to 7 if
they survive).
2. Did they reach all the goals? (This is basis for 1 to 3 karma).
3. Did the group roleplaying and stay in character? (0-2 points. Rules
Lawyers are executed on the spot in my games, generally by
the other players, LOL! ).

I'm running two groups right now. In the "beginners" group, my average
karma has been right at four. They're learning the game and as they
progress, karma and run toughness will go up. My advanced group is
getting six to eight right now. I recently put them though "Queen
Euphoria" and they are in the mists of the origional Harlequin
adventures (the one you can break up over time). Really, it depends on
how you feel that they do. If they blow it, IMHO, they're lucky to get
out with thier skin still attached.
If they do a good job, award the amount you feel they deserve.

That's my two cents...

John "Whitemoon" Chisum
New Promotions Director at K-93 KWIZ FM.
Yes...I'll post more when they let me get out of the station...
Message no. 17
From: Vaughn Wright <VWright765@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:13:03 -0500
I have to agree with Ziggy. I myself give out karma sparingly and am not a
big giver of experiance in any game. I like to be very story based in my
gamemastering and make players explain to me exactly what their characters
did to boost that particular skill or attribute. I am also not a fan of the
karma pool for I feel it grows too fast. As for the numerical amount of karma
I give, maybe8 to 10, points for a big adventure lasting several weeks.

Vaughn
Message no. 18
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@***.UPV.ES>
Subject: Re: Karma Awards...
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:58:01 +0000
David Buehrer wrote:
> My adventures are running in the realm of 20 karma at the
> moment. However, the characters have received an average
> of 300+ good karma at this point, so the adventures I run
> for them aren't easy :) (And they do pick up a lot of the
> roleplaying awards.)
>
> -David
>
> P.S. An adventure equals six or more fun-packed 5-hour sessions.

That's more or less the same karma award I give in my sessions (a bit
lower... about 15-18, but I try 4-5-session adventures ).

--
Monde (who's convincing his players to make a new group)
Message no. 19
From: "Mark J. Steedman" <Mark@******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Karma awards
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:55:55 +0000
Gurth writes

> Mark J. Steedman said on 18:27/24 Jul 98,...
>
> > I typically see an award rate of about 1point/played hour which is
> > rather more than Gurth quoted he hands out
>
> I normally use the guidelines from the GM chapter of SRII -- one
> for survival, one per objective completed, and so on. The
> exception is FASA-published adventures, where I use the awards
> from the module instead. Usually points for roleplaying etc. are
> awarded, too.
>
Generally i use the awards like this as well. Must just be rate of
doing things that hands out karma or differing interpretaions on the
meaning of threat. The 1point/hour is an observation of the results,
rates up to about 2 points per hour of play have been seen but are
exceptional (eg the person i gave 98 to for Harlequins back which it
took them about 45 hours to complete)

> I've once or twice given out 0 Karma, mainly for FASA adventures
> where there are negative awards for doing the wrong thing (or
> not doing the right thing).
>
Yes noteable that several of the FASA adventures try and encourage
moral values by giving up to +5 for killing Toxic Shamen and about -5
for spreading Red Mask/bugs and the like all over the countryside.

I have replaced the awards from some FASA adventures with the System
from SR2 simply becasue the reward from the adventure worked out
either far too high or to low for the effort i thought the PC's had
put in.

For those wondering why HB gives out such huge awards, it has to do
with the very high 'per section' team award (Gurth provided the exact
breakdown in another post) and the fact there are 5 major rolplaying
secions to it (plus some minor bits) and no chance to reat part way
so you get the lot at the end. Two or three of the parts are
sufficiently open to good roleplay that you can get a lot of
personal Karma for them, someone actually got 9 personal for one
section when i ran it (as wellas the team award). This is very much a
special adventure in more ways than one, well worth it for the right
group but very much the last thing you ever want to play for the
wrong group, read the GM guidelines and take them to heart if your
PC's and players don't meet the requirements they probably won't
enjoy it.

Mark
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Karma awards
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:12:27 +0100
Mark J. Steedman said on 10:55/26 Jul 98,...

> Generally i use the awards like this as well. Must just be rate of
> doing things that hands out karma or differing interpretaions on the
> meaning of threat. The 1point/hour is an observation of the results,
> rates up to about 2 points per hour of play have been seen but are
> exceptional (eg the person i gave 98 to for Harlequins back which it
> took them about 45 hours to complete)

If I divide the time played by the typical Karma award, I think I
get a ratio of 4 or 5 hours play per point of Karma in my
campaigns. However, I don't really see why we should set up a
relation between time played and Karma; I have a feeling it'll
only lead to players expecting a lot of Karma simply because an
adventure has taken them very long, despite nothing really
happening in it.

> Yes noteable that several of the FASA adventures try and encourage
> moral values by giving up to +5 for killing Toxic Shamen and about -5
> for spreading Red Mask/bugs and the like all over the countryside.

Exactly. I try to stay away from giving Karma based on moral or
ethical questions in adventures, except if it forms the basis of the
adventure in question.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: Edward.Chegwidden@****.int Edward.Chegwidden@****.int
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:32:44 +1000
Hello to the GM's out there,

This is a question relating to second edition as much as that is the rulebook I
have in front of me, I was wondering how the various GM's interpreted this
scentance from the rulebook:

"One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's Karma Pool"
(P191, SR2)

So for various karma awards how do you distribute the Karma, if you could give
eamples for the following awards I would appreciate:

3 points
5 points
10 points
11 points
15 points

regards,
Edward.
Message no. 22
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:50:40 -0400
On Mon, 29 May 2000 08:32:44 +1000 Edward.Chegwidden@****.int writes:
>
>
> Hello to the GM's out there,
>
> This is a question relating to second edition as much as that is the
> rulebook I
> have in front of me, I was wondering how the various GM's
> interpreted this
> scentance from the rulebook:
>
> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's
> Karma Pool"
> (P191, SR2)
>
> So for various karma awards how do you distribute the Karma, if you
> could give
> eamples for the following awards I would appreciate:
>
> 3 points
> 5 points
> 10 points
> 11 points
> 15 points

For myself, I don't actually count the "tenth" point as costing anything
for the karma pool. So, at 10, the PC gets another KP, without costing
anything.
This doesn't actually go with the rules though...


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 23
From: Augustus shadowrun@*********.net
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:33:32 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: <Edward.Chegwidden@****.int>
> Hello to the GM's out there,
>
> This is a question relating to second edition as much as that is the
rulebook I
> have in front of me, I was wondering how the various GM's interpreted this
> scentance from the rulebook:
>
> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's Karma
Pool"
> (P191, SR2)

In the SR2 rulebook it wasn't too clear, but they clarified it in the
companion and then again later in SR3.

the intention is... every 10th karma the character earns overall goes into
the karma pool instead of being good karma.

So if you did a run and scored 5 karma... you would only get 5 good karma...
but then after your next run you got 7 karma... that'd be 6 more good karma
and 1 karma goes into the pool.

I initially misunderstood the rules until the companion came out and it
helped abit... what I was doing, per the example above... would be... PCs
earn 5 karma... so one tenth is .5 and rounding that up... would be 4 good
karma and 1 to the pool... then they did the next run and got 7... so 6
becomes good karma and 1 goes to the pool.

So my group, whom I ran a whack of 2-4 karma runs to start (aka "Milk Runs")
and they wound up with kick ass pools that made them near gods in the
game... even though they didn't have much experience overall.

Aug
Message no. 24
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:47:10 -0700 (PDT)
> Hello to the GM's out there,
>
> This is a question relating to second edition as
much as that is the rulebook I have in front of me, I
was wondering how the various GM's interpreted this
scentance from the rulebook:
>
> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into
the character's Karma Pool" (P191, SR2)
>
> So for various karma awards how do you distribute
the Karma, if you could give eamples for the following
awards I would appreciate:
>
> 3 points
> 5 points
> 10 points
> 11 points
> 15 points
> Edward.

Eddie, it's fairly simple. You need to keep a running
total of all karma earned (same as legend points in ED
:) ). Obviously, you spend it as you can, but once you
reach a full ten points of earned karma, the tenth
point should go into the karma pool. Again, when you
earn a full 20, a second point goes into the karma
pool.

With your example - the first two don't earn any karma
pool - YET. The last three have each earned one point
of karma pool. The last two have also started on their
way to gaining a SECOND point for the karma pool.

A better example would be if those were continuing
awards for the one player. Assuming a human character
(starting karma pool of 1):

3 - total of 3, Good Karma 3, Karma Pool 1
5 - total of 8, GK 8, KP 1
10 - total of 18, GK 17, KP 2
11 - total of 29, GK 27, KP 3
15 - total of 44, GK 40, KP 5

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 25
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
> Hello to the GM's out there,
>
> This is a question relating to second edition as
much as that is the rulebook I have in front of me, I
was wondering how the various GM's interpreted this
scentance from the rulebook:
>
> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into
the character's Karma Pool" (P191, SR2)
>
> So for various karma awards how do you distribute
the Karma, if you could give eamples for the following
awards I would appreciate:
>
> 3 points
> 5 points
> 10 points
> 11 points
> 15 points
> Edward.

Eddie, it's fairly simple. You need to keep a running
total of all karma earned (same as legend points in ED
:) ). Obviously, you spend it as you can, but once you
reach a full ten points of earned karma, the tenth
point should go into the karma pool. Again, when you
earn a full 20, a second point goes into the karma
pool.

With your example - the first two don't earn any karma
pool - YET. The last three have each earned one point
of karma pool. The last two have also started on their
way to gaining a SECOND point for the karma pool.

A better example would be if those were continuing
awards for the one player. Assuming a human character
(starting karma pool of 1):

3 - total of 3, Good Karma 3, Karma Pool 1
5 - total of 8, GK 8, KP 1
10 - total of 18, GK 17, KP 2
11 - total of 29, GK 27, KP 3
15 - total of 44, GK 40, KP 5

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 26
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:16:11 -0400
>>>Vocenoctum said:
[ For myself, I don't actually count the "tenth" point as costing anything
for the karma pool. So, at 10, the PC gets another KP, without costing
anything.This doesn't actually go with the rules though... ]

This is actually the way I am running thigs as well. It is so minor as to
barely be a "house rule". I am also a little more stingy when it comes to
handing out Karma, so it probably comes out near the same in the end anyway.

My thoughts,
Aristotle
Message no. 27
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Karma Awards
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:36:08 +0200
According to Edward.Chegwidden@****.int, at 8:32 on 29 May 00, the word on
the street was...

> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's Karma
Pool"
> (P191, SR2)

Very simple: every tenth point of Karma you earn goes into your Karma Pool
instead of your Good Karma. (Note that the SRII Companion turns this into
every _eleventh_ point, proving FASA isn't too great at math...)

> So for various karma awards how do you distribute the Karma, if you could give
> eamples for the following awards I would appreciate:

I'm assuming a base Karma Pool of 1 here, as that is what you get for free
as a beginning character.

> 3 points

Karma Pool = 1
Good Karma = 3

> 5 points

Karma Pool = 1
Good Karma = 5

> 10 points

Karma Pool = 2
Good Karma = 9

> 11 points

Karma Pool = 2
Good Karma = 10

> 15 points

Karma Pool = 2
Good Karma = 14


--
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Message no. 28
From: rothgefa@*******.com (Robert Fanning)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:23:29 +1000
How do you determine exactly how much karma you should award?

If it is on the threats they face, then how do you know whether it was ahem,
"donkey", or skill that determines if they overcome it.

If they get slaughtered, hosed, holed, fragged, flamed, digested, etc, then
they are not going to recieve a karma award.

My players:
A) are better at this than me.
B) cheat at dice rolls.
C) conspire outside of game time.
D) consult forums like this for rules they can exploit.
E) all of the above.

<@^@> put "Hey Robert!" (without quotes) in the subject line to bypass my
junk mail filter.

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Message no. 29
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:43:59 +0100
> How do you determine exactly how much karma you should award?
>
>
> My players:
> A) are better at this than me.
> B) cheat at dice rolls.
> C) conspire outside of game time.
> D) consult forums like this for rules they can exploit.
> E) all of the above.

If B) is true, then zero. A cheater doesn't belong at a gaming table.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 30
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:11:16 +0100
According to Robert Fanning, on Tuesday 16 December 2003 05:23 the word on
the street was...

> How do you determine exactly how much karma you should award?

When I GM, I tend to follow the guidelines in the old SRII rulebook, which
spelled things out pretty well, IMHO. Basically 1 Karma for surviving the
run at all, 1 point per adventure goal achieved, 0-3 for threat, and a few
more group awards like that. Then add points for individual performance,
which tend to be thin on the ground in my group :) (Interestingly, I'm not
GMing for the group ATM, and the current GM always used to complain that I
gave out so few individual Karma awards for stuff like role-playing and
problem-solving -- but I notice he also doesn't give out points for that a
lot... :)

--
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If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
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Message no. 31
From: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:12:50 +1100
Gurth writes:

> When I GM, I tend to follow the guidelines in the old SRII rulebook, which
> spelled things out pretty well, IMHO. Basically 1 Karma for surviving the
> run at all, 1 point per adventure goal achieved, 0-3 for threat, and a few
> more group awards like that. Then add points for individual performance,
> which tend to be thin on the ground in my group :)

The SRII guidelines are the ones that I follow, too. Although I sometimes get a bit
generous with the "adventure goal" bit. Many adventures that I run really only
have 1 or 2 "goals", but go for so damned long that 1-2 Karma is a pittance for
all the time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears that the PCs put into it. So I often give
out 1 Karma per "major encounter" or "major challenge", which usually
evens things up a bit more.

Also, I freely hand out the personal Karma awards. After all, if you read the description
for "Good Roleplaying", p 244 SR3, it says:

"Award 1 Karma Point to players who mostly stayed in character."

My players once pointed this out, and I find that far too many GMs (like I used to) tend
to mis-read this sentence as "Award 1 Karma Point to players who qualify for Oscar
nominations." :P Really, _any_ even halfway competent and serious player ought to get
at least this award each and every adventure.

Likewise, I'm a lot more lenient with the other personal Karma awards. In fact, it's not
uncommon for a character to get 5 personal Karma out of an adventure. Remember, an
adventure can take a while in my games ;-). I will sometimes, but not very often, hand out
2 Karma for a single personal award (e.g. "Guts"), if there are either 2
distinct really good reasons for it, or one _extremely_ good reason for it. I think once a
character managed to get _every_ personal Karma award in an adventure (7 or 8 points
worth). It's rare for a character to not get at least 1 or 2 points in any given
adventure, too.

My philosophy is that, like nuyen, Karma makes the game go a little faster. And seeing as
how long it would take for a PC to be able to pay for Wired Reflexes II with the pay
scales listed in the SR books (SR Companion, is it?), I'm fairly generous with nuyen.
Karma is the same. Consider how much Karma it takes to summon an Ally spirit. How many
players in your games have summoned one? There isn't much use in the rules, concepts, and
cool ideas that go with Ally spirits if the PCs never get enough Karma to summon one, is
there? In general, more Karma = more fun, so I am more likely to "err" on
the side of generosity than on the side of stinginess.

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
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ICQ: 177734389 | MSN: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au | AIM/Y!: DamionMilliken
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Message no. 32
From: shadowrun@********.demon.co.uk (Andrew Norman (Shadowrun))
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:11:04 +0000
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 04:23, Robert Fanning wrote:
> How do you determine exactly how much karma you should award?

Personally in my game I tend to award karma at a higher rate than
suggested in the books. Mainly because the group I run tend only to meet
once a week for 3 hours, and the downtime side of things happens during
the rest of the week (ah ... gotta love players that plot and scheme
outside the table).

I think in the last 18 months of the game there has been a total of 320
karma awarded on average around the table, which averages out at about 4
a week or so.

Each run/adventure normally takes 1-3 weeks depending on the planning
and execution (and how much the players screw up).

Also the game was started as a short term campaign at the local gaming
club, so I gave out more karma to boost the power level quickly and give
the players a chance to try all the different levels of play (they
started life as gangers in Seattle pulling jobs for the mob). To be
honest I just haven't bothered to lower the awards :).

-Andrew
--
"What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in Reason? how
infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing how expresse and
admirable? in Action, how like an Angel? in apprehension,
how like a God? the beauty of the world, the Parragon of
Animals;"
- Hamlet, Shakespeare
Message no. 33
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:41:30 -0500
> I think in the last 18 months of the game there has been a total of 320
> karma awarded on average around the table, which averages out at about 4
> a week or so.

I'm running a solo game right now that runs on the high end of the
spectrum, and I award about this much to let the PC catch up to the
NPCs. That said, I haven't found awards on this scale to be
unbalancing at all, so if I ran for a group of 4 I would still try and
award around 4 per week on average. With so many things to spend karma
on (even if it's just getting skills pumped up), it gives players hope
for reaching the higher end game. I tend to run high powered though,
and my players don't munchkin too much, so it would work for my games,
but different styles could easily find this too generous.

Jim
Message no. 34
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:24:28 +0100
According to Damion Milliken, on Tuesday 16 December 2003 13:12 the word on
the street was...

> The SRII guidelines are the ones that I follow, too. Although I
> sometimes get a bit generous with the "adventure goal" bit.

My players always complain I give out too little rather than too much :)

> Many
> adventures that I run really only have 1 or 2 "goals", but go for so
> damned long that 1-2 Karma is a pittance for all the time, effort,
> blood, sweat, and tears that the PCs put into it. So I often give out 1
> Karma per "major encounter" or "major challenge", which usually
evens
> things up a bit more.

A few years ago, my group changed Karma to per-session awards instead of
per-adventure. This resulted in slightly higher awards, because surviving
the _session_ rather than the _adventure_ is worth 1 Karma, but otherwise
it stayed much the same -- you just get the awards for achieving adventure
goals, good roleplaying, humor/drama, etc. at the end of the session in
which they happened rather than after the whole adventure is over.

Our main reason for this change, though, was because the GM (and the group
as a whole) had a tendency to forget stuff that happened and was worth
Karma, simply because it occurred three or four weeks earlier. By giving
out the Karma every session, we tried to ensure that all the Karma
actually got handed out.

> "Award 1 Karma Point to players who mostly stayed in character."
>
> My players once pointed this out, and I find that far too many GMs (like
> I used to) tend to mis-read this sentence as "Award 1 Karma Point to
> players who qualify for Oscar nominations." :P Really, _any_ even
> halfway competent and serious player ought to get at least this award
> each and every adventure.

You can also read it to mean that the one player who stayed in character
best, gets the award. So if everyone says everything OOC for the whole
session, and I make precisely one IC remark, I get 1 Karma. Hey, I need to
discuss this with our present GM... :)

> Likewise, I'm a lot more lenient with the other personal Karma awards.

The one Karma award I try to restrict is the one for humor. This got handed
out a bit too often for my liking in my group, probably in part because
players had latched onto the idea that if you were funny, you got Karma --
but nobody seems to keep in mind that drama or solving problems is also
worth Karma...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
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Message no. 35
From: james@****.uow.edu.au (James Niall Zealey)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:44:15 +1100
> Gurth <gurth@******.nl>

>> "Award 1 Karma Point to players who mostly stayed in character."
>>
> You can also read it to mean that the one player who stayed in character
> best, gets the award. So if everyone says everything OOC for the whole
> session, and I make precisely one IC remark, I get 1 Karma. Hey, I need to
> discuss this with our present GM... :)
>

Umm, no. You can't read that sentence to mean that at all. It mentions
multiple players for a start, and I've yet to hear or read mostly used
as "the one who did it the most".
Message no. 36
From: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:54:38 +1100
Gurth writes:

> A few years ago, my group changed Karma to per-session awards instead of
> per-adventure. This resulted in slightly higher awards, because surviving
> the _session_ rather than the _adventure_ is worth 1 Karma, but otherwise
> it stayed much the same -- you just get the awards for achieving adventure
> goals, good roleplaying, humor/drama, etc. at the end of the session in
> which they happened rather than after the whole adventure is over.

That could probably work well, I would think. Although you'd have to watch out for
procrastinators who wasted lots of time, and strang the adventure out for rather long ;-).

> Our main reason for this change, though, was because the GM (and the group
> as a whole) had a tendency to forget stuff that happened and was worth
> Karma, simply because it occurred three or four weeks earlier. By giving
> out the Karma every session, we tried to ensure that all the Karma
> actually got handed out.

I find writing things down on a notepad as they occur (keep a page separate for Karma
awards) works well. This was especially crucial when I ran Harlequin's Back, which has
some 8 or so separate adventures, but for which the Karma awards are handed out right at
the end (around a year later ... ).

> > "Award 1 Karma Point to players who mostly stayed in character."
>
> You can also read it to mean that the one player who stayed in character
> best, gets the award. So if everyone says everything OOC for the whole
> session, and I make precisely one IC remark, I get 1 Karma. Hey, I need to
> discuss this with our present GM... :)

You can? It says "players". That sounds like a plural to me ;-).

> The one Karma award I try to restrict is the one for humor. This got handed
> out a bit too often for my liking in my group, probably in part because
> players had latched onto the idea that if you were funny, you got Karma --
> but nobody seems to keep in mind that drama or solving problems is also
> worth Karma...

It's rare for a player _not_ to get a Humour personal Karma award in each adventure in my
games, after all, the idea of this hobby is to have fun :-). However, do remember that the
Humour awards only apply for things said "in character", which limits the jokes
and smart arse comments to funny, but no Karmerable.

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
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Message no. 37
From: tevel@******.com (Tevel Drinkwater)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:13:28 -0800
"Damion Milliken" <DamionMilliken@*****.com.au> wrote:
> The SRII guidelines are the ones that I follow, too. Although I sometimes get a bit
generous with the "adventure goal" bit. Many adventures that I run really only
have 1 or 2 "goals", but go for so damned long that 1-2 Karma is a pittance for
all the time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears that the PCs put into it. So I often give
out 1 Karma per "major encounter" or "major challenge", which usually
evens things up a bit more.
> Also, I freely hand out the personal Karma awards. After all, if you read the
description for "Good Roleplaying", p 244 SR3, it says:
> "Award 1 Karma Point to players who mostly stayed in character."
I use the "Good Roleplaying" almost as a gimme; if you show up, you play
your character and participate, you're guaranteed at least one karma.
Good roleplaying sometimes does indeed get two Karma with me. Sleeping
through a session gets zero (although he did work the night before and
had gotten up early). I'd say that having the one point to lose might
encourage better gaming, but really, all of us in my group are pretty
mature ex-ex-gamers (or re-gamers? What should you call an ex-gamer
that starts gaming again?) and we all want to be there.
I'm trying to be more generous with the Karma, as someone else
mentioned it helps players try out more with their characters. I even
try to up the nuyen rewards, but it's a struggle. I'm stingy by
instinct. Rewarding the individual karma rewards per session, and then
adventure rewards seperately at the end of an adventure helps me to
remember notable achievements better and reward them properly. And
really, when can a character ever get so powerful that a malicious GM
can't bring them low?

-Tev
Message no. 38
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:28:36 +0100
According to James Niall Zealey, on Tuesday 16 December 2003 22:44 the word
on the street was...

> Umm, no. You can't read that sentence to mean that at all.

Yes I can -- I can read it to mean "What did you have for breakfast?" if I
really want to :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 39
From: docwagon101@*****.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:32:32 +0000 (GMT)
<snipt!(TM)>
> And really, when can a character ever get so
powerful that a malicious GM can't bring them low?
> -Tev

Bingo!

This is the point that I always come back to when GMs
are being stingy with cash and karma. The WHOLE POINT
of gaming (for most gamers) is to have fun, and
where's the fun if things come so slowly you never
improve?

But if you're worried about PC power increasing too
much - don't. You're the GM. There are always ways for
you to keep things competitive.

Me, I'm starting up a new PBeM game. Characters are
being created with 250 (yes, you read that right)
build points. Kinda hefty. But I don't think there's a
single one of my players who doubts that I'll be able
to challenge their characters, no matter how powerful
they are.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

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Message no. 40
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:34:26 +0100
According to Damion Milliken, on Wednesday 17 December 2003 01:54 the word
on the street was...

> That could probably work well, I would think. Although you'd have to
> watch out for procrastinators who wasted lots of time, and strang the
> adventure out for rather long ;-).

No problems with that. The adventures tend to take far longer than
expected, but they did that before we changed the Karma awards, too :)

> I find writing things down on a notepad as they occur (keep a page
> separate for Karma awards) works well.

I have the bad habit of not writing things down and trusting in my memory
-- which is pretty good, but not for remembering things offhand :/

> This was especially crucial when
> I ran Harlequin's Back, which has some 8 or so separate adventures, but
> for which the Karma awards are handed out right at the end (around a
> year later ... ).

HB was easy enough, as I just used a pencil to circle the Karma awards for
which the players qualified.

> It's rare for a player _not_ to get a Humour personal Karma award in
> each adventure in my games, after all, the idea of this hobby is to have
> fun :-)

Very true, but the reason I try to restrict it is to prevent too much
hilarity, which IMHO very soon turns the game from "fun" into "not
fun".

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 41
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Karma awards
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 04:15:28 -0800 (PST)
You should give karma awards only at the end of every
adventure?! I always thought that they are given once
every session! I usually give an average of 4 every
time (apart from the individual onces on which I
expect to be truly impressed to give) and things have
turned out all right!


====

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