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Message no. 1
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:37:25 -0400
Okay, since the long-lingering spectre of uneven advancement potential
between mudanes and magicos was just raised (again :) ), let me ask a few
questions about karma.
First off, have people done anything to allow characters to spend
karma on advancement in areas other than skills and attributes (or the usual
magical things, obviously)? I'm thinking here of things like spending karma
to acquire new contacts, for instance. (Not the Karma-for-Cash rule - I
don't really like that one). I seem to remember a rule for deckers to
use Karma to pay SOTA costs, and that makes sense to me. We've been talking
here occasionally about other rules that would give mundanes something
other than skills to spend their Karma on, to give them some different
avenues of improvement. Your average samurai, for instance, would probably
jump at the chance to spend Karma to reduce the availability number for
that toy he's trying to get through his fixer (I haven't tested that idea,
but at first blush, it seems reasonable). I'd probably only suggest it
for things that the character could affect by putting time into it, with
the karma representing effort expended (in the same way you put effort into
studying a new skill).
Anyone tried anything along those lines?

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 2
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:28:14 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/98 6:37:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU writes:

> First off, have people done anything to allow characters to spend
> karma on advancement in areas other than skills and attributes (or the
usual
> magical things, obviously)?

Not really considering how much Karma is already used to improve attributes
and skills, most players in my game never want to spend Karma on something
else or even suggested it. Truthfully I can not really think of a way to
effectively add new Karma expendatures into SR3 that would not unbalance the
game.

I believe I have heard there would be new uses of Karma in the SR3 GM screen,
but I may be mistaken.

> I'm thinking here of things like spending karma
> to acquire new contacts, for instance. (Not the Karma-for-Cash rule - I
> don't really like that one).

That would take away from the role-palying aspect IMHO. Alreday SR3 is loaded
with too many instances of "buying" people's loyalty (for lack of a better
word when it comes to conatct)

> I seem to remember a rule for deckers to
> use Karma to pay SOTA costs, and that makes sense to me.

I vaguely remember that, since I have no deckers in my groups I have not spent
a lot of time memorizing those rules.

> Your average samurai, for instance, would probably
> jump at the chance to spend Karma to reduce the availability number for
> that toy he's trying to get through his fixer (I haven't tested that idea,
> but at first blush, it seems reasonable).

They currently have rules for that for Karma Pool in SR3. Well, they do not
come out and say that you could use it for availability tests but they do
mention that it should be used for high target numbers. See the Hooper-Rule.

Though it does burn Karma Pool, but you could modify it for normal karma.

> I'd probably only suggest it
> for things that the character could affect by putting time into it, with
> the karma representing effort expended (in the same way you put effort into
> studying a new skill).

The only thing that would bother me about it is that the character goes to a
contact to get the contact to find the toy in question, so it would be the
contact who would be doing all the work and not neccessarily the character.

-Bandit
Message no. 3
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:19:23 -0400
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Sean McCrohan wrote:

-> Okay, since the long-lingering spectre of uneven advancement potential
->between mudanes and magicos was just raised (again :) ), let me ask a few
->questions about karma.
-> First off, have people done anything to allow characters to spend
->karma on advancement in areas other than skills and attributes (or the usual
->magical things, obviously)? I'm thinking here of things like spending karma
->to acquire new contacts, for instance. (Not the Karma-for-Cash rule - I
->don't really like that one). I seem to remember a rule for deckers to
->use Karma to pay SOTA costs, and that makes sense to me. We've been talking
->here occasionally about other rules that would give mundanes something
->other than skills to spend their Karma on, to give them some different
->avenues of improvement. Your average samurai, for instance, would probably
->jump at the chance to spend Karma to reduce the availability number for
->that toy he's trying to get through his fixer (I haven't tested that idea,
->but at first blush, it seems reasonable). I'd probably only suggest it
->for things that the character could affect by putting time into it, with
->the karma representing effort expended (in the same way you put effort into
->studying a new skill).

I allow PCs to use Karma to acquire or improve contacts (1 Karma
per level, max 1 level per 'down time') provided they use it during 'down
time'. To me it represents the PC doing several favors (depending on Karma
spent) for the NPC and the NPC being more favorably inclined (by the PC
not taking more money that it took to replace his equipment he used doing
the favor).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 4
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:38:20 +0200
And so it came to happen that Sean McCrohan wrote:
----------
<snipped>
> Anyone tried anything along those lines?

No, haven't tried that one on Karma. But if you do that I sugest the
following:
Use instead of good Karma the Karmapool. One point of Karmapool burned can
give you the equivalent of a Level one contact through sheer luck. for a
Level two Contact you need four points and for a Level three Contact burn
nine points.
The same for applies for Availability, just make the cost like
(Availablity of Item wanted/10 [round up] +Availability reduction wanted) =
Karmapool pts. to spend.
That would take into account that most Good Karmapts. that you use up under
the SOTA Rules stand for an amount of about 500 Y (as far as I recall it,
doesnt have the Compenion handy).
Maybe sounds harsh, but if you won't roleplay you need to pay up IMO. And
if you get that new BANG-BANG you surely don't need your Karmapool. Same
applies to that SOTA Deck and Drones.
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 5
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:46:56 -0400
Quoting M. Sean Martinez (ElBandit@***.COM):
> > I'd probably only suggest it
> > for things that the character could affect by putting time into it, with
> > the karma representing effort expended (in the same way you put effort into
> > studying a new skill).
>
> The only thing that would bother me about it is that the character goes to a
> contact to get the contact to find the toy in question, so it would be the
> contact who would be doing all the work and not neccessarily the character.

True. I'd probably look at it as the character following up on
leads, or doing some other sort of favor for the fixer that will give
him the time to pay more attention to finding the gear. (You could do
this sort of thing without spending Karma, too, but then you'd have to
roleplay it out, and it's likely that SOMETHING would go wrong...spending
Karma to do something 'in the background' would just be for downtime
you were planning on skipping past anyway). Likewise, you can get a new
contact just by going out of your way to do business with the same person
several times, so they know you...spending karma on it would just be
a way of representing that you've done that during that month that your
GM just skipped past so everyone could train their skills and so forth.

--Sean
--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 6
From: Tommy Lindner <tommy.lindner@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma, karma, karma
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:01:00 +0200
Sean McCrohan schrieb:

> I'm thinking here of things like spending karma to acquire new contacts, for
> instance.

> --Sean

We did a rule on getting new connections using Karma and ended up with that after
some weeks of discussion. (The rule is just a few weeks old, so please give
comments)

There are 5 Contact categories:
bad = 1 (someone created with 50% of SC creation points)
normal = 2 (someone with normal creation values and the usual archetypes; that
is what you get at PC creation)
good = 3 (someone with 150% SC creation points)
very good = 4 (I don't rate it in stats but in power)
prime = 5 (name it)

* you can't usually "buy" very good and prime in my campaign but you can manage
to
meet them in the game and become some kind of contact for it. I just added them to
complete the system.

level 1: karma: level x quali x 1,5 Upkeep: 250 Y x Quali
level 2: karma: level x quali x 2,5 Upkeep: 1 500 Y x Quali
level 3: karma: level x quali x 5 Upkeep: 3 500 Y x Quali

We used the SR2 and the Companion as a guideline.

I usually don't allow level 3 contacts to be aquired after character creation
except sometimes level 2 contacts turn into 3 after a while playing.

Tommy

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