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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (James Zealey)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Thu Nov 29 17:40:01 2001
> Ever seen a person that was in such a
> horrendous car accident that you would look at
> the wreck and assume the people inside died
> only to get closer and see that there's 2
> people inside trying to get out for all
> they're worth? That's karma, without it death
> would be

No, that's wearing a seatbelt (reduces damage from a collision by 1 damage level). Shame
the WTC guys didn't wear theirs so we could bring them to trial...

> cut and dry, remember that joey butafuco thing
> where this chick that wanted him (I believe
> that he was cheating on his wife with her) and
> so she took a .22 cal pistol and put it to his
> wife's temple and shot her?

Wow, if she managed to cause a serious wound, she was doing well (base damage light, skill
of 3, -1 tn for still target, +4 for aimed (increase damage). Assuming a 3 skill level, we
get an average of 40% of a success doing 6M damage(shes outright missing 60% of the time).
Not a surprise attack, so the victim gets to dodge too).

> An army paratrooper that hits the ground
> because his chute didn't open but only has a
> broken leg or a dislocated hip or something
> like that, it's karma.

Not surprised he screwed up the jump - the rules require him to get something like a 12 on
his parachuting skill roll for a clean landing... And his unit are scattered to the four
winds - you can be off-target by up to the distance that he fell. At least he won't bleed
to death unless he actually took a full deadly wound (and even then he only needs a 10 on
a willpower test to get up again).


"Your gun has 'replica'
written down the side, mine
has 'Ares HVAR'..."

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Fri Nov 30 13:05:01 2001
> Not surprised he screwed up the jump - the rules require him to get
> something like a 12 on his parachuting skill roll for a clean landing...
> And his unit are scattered to the four winds - you can be off-target by
> up to the distance that he fell. At least he won't bleed to death unless
> he actually took a full deadly wound (and even then he only needs a 10 on
> a willpower test to get up again).
> James

After re-reading to rules in preparation for responding to this message
(I'm getting better, yes I am!) I've realized I've been playing wrong...
you're right, you can't bleed to death unless you've taken a Deadly wound
(or more). How I've been interpreting the rules (not how I've been
playing, really, the situation never comes up) is this: when the rules say
to make a test based on your wound level to determine the ned for medical
attention, so so as per the book. However, if you fail, you incur the
extra damage per (Body)rounds. I always took the bit about needing medical
attention to heal to mean that you were going to die if you didn't get it,
not that you'd just have an ever-present Serious wound.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Sun Dec 2 10:55:02 2001
BD writes:

> After re-reading to rules in preparation for responding to this message
> (I'm getting better, yes I am!) I've realized I've been playing wrong...
> you're right, you can't bleed to death unless you've taken a Deadly wound
> (or more). How I've been interpreting the rules (not how I've been
> playing, really, the situation never comes up) is this: when the rules say
> to make a test based on your wound level to determine the ned for medical
> attention, so so as per the book. However, if you fail, you incur the
> extra damage per (Body)rounds. I always took the bit about needing medical
> attention to heal to mean that you were going to die if you didn't get it,
> not that you'd just have an ever-present Serious wound.

OTOH, this does make a nice house rule ... <grin>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Mon Dec 3 10:20:01 2001
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Damion Milliken whispered:
> BD writes:
>
<snip>
> > How I've been interpreting the rules (not how I've been
> > playing, really, the situation never comes up) is this: when the rules
say
> > to make a test based on your wound level to determine the ned for
medical
> > attention, so so as per the book. However, if you fail, you incur the
> > extra damage per (Body)rounds. I always took the bit about needing
medical
> > attention to heal to mean that you were going to die if you didn't get
it,
> > not that you'd just have an ever-present Serious wound.
>
> OTOH, this does make a nice house rule ... <grin>
>
<snip II>

Also a pretty sensible one. Who runs around with a serious wound that
doesn't get
better by itself, but also doesn't worsen because he won't go to a doctor?

I think I'll propose it to our group. The other players 'll kill me;-)

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Sun Dec 9 00:10:01 2001
>> After re-reading to rules in preparation for responding to this message
>> (I'm getting better, yes I am!) I've realized I've been playing wrong...
>> you're right, you can't bleed to death unless you've taken a Deadly wound
>> (or more). How I've been interpreting the rules (not how I've been
>> playing, really, the situation never comes up) is this: when the rules
say
>> to make a test based on your wound level to determine the ned for medical
>> attention, so so as per the book. However, if you fail, you incur the
>> extra damage per (Body)rounds. I always took the bit about needing
medical
>> attention to heal to mean that you were going to die if you didn't get
it,
>> not that you'd just have an ever-present Serious wound.

I like that. I tried writing up something similar for M&M, but it was (even
more) lengthy and cumbersome, and I felt like I was re-inventing the wheel.
Well, I guess I was!
The one problem I see is that SR never really defines what "medical
attention" is in those cases. For healing wounds, there's just the cost of
going to a doctor, which isn't bad, but when your characters are lying there
potentialy bleeding to death from a moderate wound, sombody is gonna ask if
theres some first aid or magic they can do that will stop the bleeding. I'd
say you'd need to "stabalize" the patient. A stabalization unit does this
automatically, a "stablaize" spell is good, and theres the special first aid
test to stabalize, and the stabalization patch. I've rarely seen any except
the first aid roll used in a game, so it would be fun to give them so new
uses.

-Seb
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Karma OR re:Contradictions
Date: Mon Dec 10 18:50:05 2001
From: "Sebastian Wiers" <m0ng005e@*****.com>
<Snip bleeding rules>
> I like that. I tried writing up something similar for M&M, but it was (even
> more) lengthy and cumbersome, and I felt like I was re-inventing the wheel.
> Well, I guess I was!

I have a house rule, that says if you don't roll a single success on your
initial damage resistance test, you have to roll again each minute (if lying
still) or each combat round (if moving about) vs. a T# of the number of boxes of
damage you currently have. If you do not roll at least one success, you take
another L wound (1 box). This all stops if you roll a singe success, or if you
are stabilized/cured in some way.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
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sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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