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Message no. 1
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Karma Pool (`butt saving')
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 14:10:27 +1000
Damion writes:

> Well, I'll be damned, I always interpreted that it could be used on any roll
> at all, not just life saving ones. Or by "butt saving" do you mean really
> critical rolls? [...many examples deleted...]

The problem with the `butt-saving' proviso is that it means every use
of karma pool requires a decision by the GM.

In my opinion, that's one thing that makes this rule a kluge.

And consider this: spending karma to reduce a Moderate wound to nothing
means that instead of having +2 on all your target numbers for a long
time, you have no modifiers. So unless you have an enormous karma pool,
if you aren't allowed to spend karma to avoid that wound, then there's
an excellent chance that you'll run out of karma, as you desperately
spend it on almost every roll to save your butt.

So it could be argued quite reasonably, that spending karma whenever
you get wounded is `butt saving'.

You see what I mean? The rule sounds fine, but is actually too vague
to be useful.

Now, some people are staunch defenders of karma pools -
Ivy runs one game where many of the characters have pools in
the hundreds. (She says that you just have to design adventures
which challenge the players. The key to this is to require lots
of tasks that have relatively high target numbers.)

This is what _we_ do: everybody has a karma pool, that refreshes each
game session (unless a session ends in the middle of a firefight
or something similar). For a group of up to 5 experienced runners,
each person has a karma pool of 4. For 8 experienced runners,
reduce this to 2.

Then people use the karma pool when _they_ think the test is
important enough to require some of that precious reusable karma.
Often, this happens when they're trying to save their butt.
Surely, that's simple enough?

> Also, what is the stance on re-rolling other PCs NPCs rolls? If I wanted to
> could I force a re-roll of the bad guys attack instead of re-rolling my
> resistance test?

Why would you want to make them re-roll their failed dice? :-)
I don't know whether you can buy failures for others in a similar
way to buying successes for yourself - but I doubt it.

luke
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (`butt saving')
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:15:44 +1000
luke writes:

> You see what I mean? The rule sounds fine, but is actually too vague
> to be useful.

Yep, exactly.

I rather liked your karma pool idea (having a set number of dice for the
entire team, and splitting it up between the members). That way they could
use it on any roll they liked. But it wouldn't be too hard to run games
where characters have large karma pools, it's just that when they get too
large it becomes a problem. Still, there's always the "encounter/scene" bit
that the GM can fudge around. It would be perfectly OK to argue that the
entire run was a single encounter, that would slow down karma usage by all
but the most karma rich runners.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 3
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (`butt saving')
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 10:22:22 GMT
Reading the SR2 book last night, it says that when awarding Karma and
splitting it between Good Karma and Karma Pool, "one-tenth of Karma
awarded goes into the Karma Pool. Always round off in favour of Good
Karma" (or something to that effect). This _could_ be interperted as
saying you only get to add one point to the pool when awarded 10 or
more Karma in one go. And how many 10 Karma runs are there?

That should limit the Karma pool a bit, and ensure players keep it
for desparate situations.

Neil.
Message no. 4
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (`butt saving')
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 19:58:09 +1000
Neil writes:

> Reading the SR2 book last night, it says that when awarding Karma and
> splitting it between Good Karma and Karma Pool, "one-tenth of Karma
> awarded goes into the Karma Pool. Always round off in favour of Good
> Karma" (or something to that effect). This _could_ be interperted as
> saying you only get to add one point to the pool when awarded 10 or
> more Karma in one go. And how many 10 Karma runs are there?
>
> That should limit the Karma pool a bit, and ensure players keep it
> for desparate situations.

Were you here for the big karma pool debate a couple of months ago? [Not the
first I'm led to believe either]

'Cause we went through this entire thing back then.

You will notice that on page 190 it says "Always round off in favour of Good
Karma.", and then on page 191 it says "One-tenth (round up) of all karma
earned goes into the character's Karma Pool." Now, besides being completely
contardictory (and we don't see things like this very often in SR II do we
now?), this can be interpreted in about 5 different ways.

1] Ivy Way: Round up both contributions to Good Karma and Karma Pool. This
results in runners obtaining enormous karma pools, and getting part points of
karma for free.

2] Your Suggestion: Award Karma Pool contributions if the runners earn over 10.
This results in runners almost never obtaining any karma in their Karma Pools.

3] Fractional Method: Have floating fractions of karma in both pools. This
divides everything evenly, but it cheats (as Ivy would put it) the runners
out of a karma point for most of the time - sinse partial points will not be
able to be used.

4] Tenth Point Method: Keep a total of all karma earned (cf reputation
scores), and every 10th, 20th, 30th etc point of karma earned goes into the
Karma Pool.

5] Tenth Point Method II: As above, but do it on the 1st, 11th, 21st etc.

There are also various house rules abounding, such as:

1) No Karma Pools.

2) SR I approach: Runners have one conglomorate of karma, and to use it for
Karma Pool like activities costs permanently. ie, to re-roll costs 1 karma
permanently, for auto sucesses costs 2 etc.

3) Have set values for each runner: Each runner gets 2, or 4, or 6 or
whatever karma, this is an arbitrary number, and I don't see how it works
with auto successes myself.

4) Have a set team value, which is divided up evenly amongst however many
team members there are. Same theme as above.

5) Runners buy their Karma Pools on a 10 Good Karma equals one Karma Pool
Karma basis. This can either be in addition to a regular Karma Pool, or as
the sole source of the Karma Pool.

There are probably many more too. As far as I know, the DLoH has never given
us a clarification on this matter (at least that I have read).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 5
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (`butt saving')
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:33:22 GMT
Damion:
> Were you here for the big karma pool debate a couple of months ago?

No.

[Many Karma suggestions deleted]

Well, it seems that the answer is the same is it is to healing: do
whatever suits you best.

Neil.
Message no. 6
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (`butt saving') (fwd)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:59:23 METDST
>
> Reading the SR2 book last night, it says that when awarding Karma and
> splitting it between Good Karma and Karma Pool, "one-tenth of Karma
> awarded goes into the Karma Pool. Always round off in favour of Good
> Karma" (or something to that effect). This _could_ be interperted as
> saying you only get to add one point to the pool when awarded 10 or
> more Karma in one go. And how many 10 Karma runs are there?
>
> Neil.

Ok. We play the thing like this:

If you receive 7 karma, 1 goes to the pool and 6 to the good karma.
If you receive 11 karma, 2 go to the pool and 9 to the good karma.

On 10 karma, I'll say that only one go to the pool.

We use karma pool to reroll any test related to skill using (no rerolls
on maglock passkey rating 8 if you don't have the skill. No rerolls on
medikit if you don't have Biotech skill....)

About the average karma award, we range from 5 to 31 (well, it was a
*strange* run...) but normally a karma award of 11-12 is fine.

Bye, Paolo
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci marcucci@***.ts.astro.it
http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci/home.html

Further Reading

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