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Message no. 1
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, and
read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and our
group) the only person(s) to have missed this?

> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."

You know, it makes things a bit less M...like. (I know a player in our
game who is not going to be happy...) <VVVVBG>

--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
"I can live my own jeezny, droogy, right?"
Message no. 2
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:11:22 -0600 (MDT)
Dvixen Vidi Vici wrote:
|
|I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, and
|read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and our
|group) the only person(s) to have missed this?
|
|> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
|> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
|> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
|> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
|> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
|
|You know, it makes things a bit less M...like. (I know a player in our
|game who is not going to be happy...) <VVVVBG>

I GM'd for two years using it incorrectly. Didn't know the karma cost went
up. Of course I also screwed up the rule on replenishing the karma pool
(only allowed it at the beginning of the *adventure*) so it balanced out.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 3
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, David Buehrer wrote:

> |I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, and
> |read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and our
> |group) the only person(s) to have missed this?
> |
> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
> |
> |You know, it makes things a bit less M...like. (I know a player in our
> |game who is not going to be happy...) <VVVVBG>
>
> I GM'd for two years using it incorrectly. Didn't know the karma cost went
> up. Of course I also screwed up the rule on replenishing the karma pool
> (only allowed it at the beginning of the *adventure*) so it balanced out.

I feel much better, and I am sure our GM will too. He is still banging
his head on the desk that he missed it. And what makes it worse, it was
pointed out by a new player to our group. (New to Srun too, which makes
us feel *so* smart)

Now I am worried about how many other rules I may have missed over the
years...

--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
This post in no way reflect the opinions of the myriad voices in my head.

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Message no. 4
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:28:56 -0500 (EST)
>> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
>> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
>> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
>> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
>> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."

HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to confirm?



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 5
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:29:38 -0700 (PDT)
On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
>
> HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
> bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to confirm?

Yep. Hold on a sec...

[SR1, Page 149. Reroll Failures]

"1 point of Karma allows a reroll of any dice in a Test that fails.
For example, you roll 4 dice and score two successes. For 1 point of
Karma, you can reroll the two dice that failed. This can be repeated as
often as you wish until all the dice are sussesses or you run out of
Karma."

Kewl. Now we have a viable excuse :)


--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
This post in no way reflect the opinions of the myriad voices in my head.

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Message no. 6
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:50:08 -0500 (EST)
>[SR1, Page 149. Reroll Failures]
>
> "1 point of Karma allows a reroll of any dice in a Test that fails.
>For example, you roll 4 dice and score two successes. For 1 point of
>Karma, you can reroll the two dice that failed. This can be repeated as
>often as you wish until all the dice are sussesses or you run out of
>Karma."
>
>Kewl. Now we have a viable excuse :)

Thank God, I was beginnning to lose hope.



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 7
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:47:27 +1000 (EST)
On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> >> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> >> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> >> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time
it
> >> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the
dice
> >> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
>
> HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
> bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to confirm?

Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...

And Joker/Craig, if you're reading this, we really *don't* need to
implement this :)


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:03:33 +0100
Dvixen Vidi Vici said on 19:29/23 Aug 96...

> [SR1, Page 149. Reroll Failures]
>
> "1 point of Karma allows a reroll of any dice in a Test that fails.
> For example, you roll 4 dice and score two successes. For 1 point of
> Karma, you can reroll the two dice that failed. This can be repeated as
> often as you wish until all the dice are sussesses or you run out of
> Karma."
>
> Kewl. Now we have a viable excuse :)

But you know why that is, don't you? :) In SR1, there was no Karma Pool --
every point you spent on a re-roll was gone forever, so I think it'd make
people a bit unhappy if they'd have to spend 10 Karma to get four
re-rolls and still no successes, and then never see any of the Karma
again...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
No drinking before marriage!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:19:29 -0600 (MDT)
Dvixen Vidi Vici wrote:
|
|On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, David Buehrer wrote:
|
|> |I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, and
|> |read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and our
|> |group) the only person(s) to have missed this?
|> |
|> |Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
|
[snip]
|
|> I GM'd for two years using it incorrectly. Didn't know the karma cost went
|> up. Of course I also screwed up the rule on replenishing the karma pool
|> (only allowed it at the beginning of the *adventure*) so it balanced out.
|
|I feel much better, and I am sure our GM will too. He is still banging
|his head on the desk that he missed it. And what makes it worse, it was
|pointed out by a new player to our group. (New to Srun too, which makes
|us feel *so* smart)
|
|Now I am worried about how many other rules I may have missed over the
|years...

How about pain mods (+1 light, +2 medium, +3 serious) not
affecting damage resistance and drain resistance tests?
[Had that one pointed out to me about two months ago.] Or,
that the demolitions rules are in the rules for Grenades.
SRII is a *great* game. But some of the rules are not
listed where they should be (IMHO). [I.e., it's not *my*
fault, it's the Editor's fault ;)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 10
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:57:50 +1000 (EST)
> How about pain mods (+1 light, +2 medium, +3 serious) not
> affecting damage resistance and drain resistance tests?

Aiieeeee! You were making pain mods applicable to damage resistance
tests? Urk. Hate to see the lethality level in your campaign. :)

> [Had that one pointed out to me about two months ago.] Or,
> that the demolitions rules are in the rules for Grenades.
> SRII is a *great* game. But some of the rules are not
> listed where they should be (IMHO). [I.e., it's not *my*
> fault, it's the Editor's fault ;)

*grin* Sounds like a good idea to me. :)

While we're discussing rules locations, does anyone know where the rules
on the concealability of using a commlink are?

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:04:00 +1000 (EST)
On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> > >> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> > >> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll
any
> > >> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each
time it
> > >> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all
the dice
> > >> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
> >
> > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> > The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
> > bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to confirm?
>
> Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
> group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
> least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...
>
> And Joker/Craig, if you're reading this, we really *don't* need to
> implement this :)
>

Hmm I think we will.... *Evil GM Grin*

>
> Lady Jestyr
>



===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 12
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:14:12 +1000 (EST)
> > > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> > > The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
> > > bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to
confirm?
> >
> > Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
> > group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
> > least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...
> >
> > And Joker/Craig, if you're reading this, we really *don't* need to
> > implement this :)
> >
>
> Hmm I think we will.... *Evil GM Grin*

*currently wondering *WHY* I told him the address for the mailing list...*


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:55:45 +0100
The Jestyr said on 7:57/26 Aug 96...

> While we're discussing rules locations, does anyone know where the rules
> on the concealability of using a commlink are?

I don't think there are any rules for that. I take it that with "commlink"
you mean any kind of radio transmitter? In that case, it should be pretty
obvious unless the microphone and speaker are very small and/or designed
to be hidden (like those Secret Service things), in which case you'd best
assign them a TN of something like 4 to 8, depending on how small and
inobtrusive they are.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll watch it from the room inside my room.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:43:25 +0000
On 26 Aug 96 at 11:14, Lady Jestyr wrote:
[snip]
> > > And Joker/Craig, if you're reading this, we really *don't* need to
> > > implement this :)
> > Hmm I think we will.... *Evil GM Grin*
>
> *currently wondering *WHY* I told him the address for the mailing list...*
Hm... hoping for good luck? Or extra Karma? Or Craig's good Will? Hah! :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 15
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:27:35 -0600 (MDT)
The Jestyr wrote:
|
|> How about pain mods (+1 light, +2 medium, +3 serious) not
|> affecting damage resistance and drain resistance tests?
|
|Aiieeeee! You were making pain mods applicable to damage resistance
|tests? Urk. Hate to see the lethality level in your campaign. :)

Well, it applied to the NPCs too. Made for a pretty gory game. I've
since changed my ways.

|While we're discussing rules locations, does anyone know where the rules
|on the concealability of using a commlink are?

I think there's something under subvocal comlinks in Fields of
Fire(?). If they're not in FoF check the Cybermancy sourcebook.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 16
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:59:44 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:14 AM 8/26/96 +1000, a bunch of you all wrote:

> HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!

*boggle* Am I the only one who knew about this rule?


--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 17
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 26 Aug 96 10:22:00 -0400
At 11:14 AM 8/26/96 +1000, a bunch of you all wrote:

> HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!

*boggle* Am I the only one who knew about this rule?


Actually our group has used this rule since the begining (of SR2 that is).

chris

P.S. So the answer to your question is no you're not. ;)

<Zero length text item>
Message no. 18
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:27:40 -0700
Ubiquitous wrote:
>
> At 11:14 AM 8/26/96 +1000, a bunch of you all wrote:
>
> > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
>
> *boggle* Am I the only one who knew about this rule?
>

Nope! Our group caught it too. ;o)





@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 19
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Ubiquitous wrote:

> At 11:14 AM 8/26/96 +1000, a bunch of you all wrote:
>
> > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
>
> *boggle* Am I the only one who knew about this rule?

*Showoff*

--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
I'm not going to crawl around on my brooko any more, you merzky gets.
Message no. 20
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:07:48 +1000 (EST)
> > While we're discussing rules locations, does anyone know where the rules
> > on the concealability of using a commlink are?
>
> I don't think there are any rules for that. I take it that with "commlink"
> you mean any kind of radio transmitter? In that case, it should be pretty
> obvious unless the microphone and speaker are very small and/or designed
> to be hidden (like those Secret Service things), in which case you'd best
> assign them a TN of something like 4 to 8, depending on how small and
> inobtrusive they are.

I mean commlink as "external radio with cyber implants for hearing and
speaking". This is the Communications Link as described in the SSC, that
comes in 4 grades. Theoretically the cyber implants work like
subvocal/mastoid com and thus should be VERY hard to detect use, but I
can't remember where I read the rules.

Of course, what I really need is a cybercomm out of Cybertech - transmits
thoughts directly, no need for speech - but since i don't have the
essence for that, I'm rather interested in the rules for the other sort.

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 21
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:56:18 +1000 (EST)
> > > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> >
> > *boggle* Am I the only one who knew about this rule?
> >
>
> Nope! Our group caught it too. ;o)

I knew it, although I've changed the way karma works, so I don't use it.

Ray.
Message no. 22
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:03:05 +1000 (EST)
On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> > >> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> > >> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll
any
> > >> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each
time it
> > >> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all
the dice
> > >> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
> >
> > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
> > The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
> > bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to confirm?
>
> Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
> group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
> least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...
>
> And Joker/Craig, if you're reading this, we really *don't* need to
> implement this :)
>
Yeah...What she said!!! *beg, grovel*

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 23
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:52:00 +1000
At 11:04 26/08/96 +1000, Joker wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, The Jestyr wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>>
>> > >> |> Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
>> > >> |> "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to
re-roll any
>> > >> |> test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but
each
time it
>> > >> |> is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until
all
the dice
>> > >> |> are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
>> >
>> > HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THIS!!
>> > The only thing I can think is that maybe being used to 1st ed. I never
>> > bothered to look for changes. Does anyone still have a 1st ed. book to
confirm?
>>
>> Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
>> group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
>> least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...

I don't believe my eyes! How can your characters exist, but for re-rolls?
Especially
the damage resistance tests. It's the most important stat your PC can have,
almost.
I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
pool of 30)
consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool of 14,
maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their re-rolls in
two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
and 12
for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
karma pool
of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 24
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:02:20 +1000 (EST)
> >> Don't feel silly - lots of people have missed it. I don't think our
> >> group's using it either *blush*. Mind you, Karma rerolls are rare (at
> >> least for my characters), so I guess it doesn't apply so much...
>
> I don't believe my eyes! How can your characters exist, but for re-rolls?
> Especially
> the damage resistance tests. It's the most important stat your PC can have,
> almost.

I try not to get shot. :)

> I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
> pool of 30)
> consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool of 14,
> maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their re-rolls in
> two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
> and 12
> for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
> karma pool
> of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.

Yes, but this is CHICAGO you're talking about here. The only reason we
survived Chicago was that we did it as a low-end run, when the outbreak
was starting, rather than from a while after the outbreak...


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:52:46 +0100
The Jestyr said on 8:07/27 Aug 96...

> I mean commlink as "external radio with cyber implants for hearing and
> speaking". This is the Communications Link as described in the SSC, that
> comes in 4 grades. Theoretically the cyber implants work like
> subvocal/mastoid com and thus should be VERY hard to detect use, but I
> can't remember where I read the rules.

Maybe it's just me, but AFAIK you need a cyberware radio in order to use
the commlinks on page 76 of the SSC. I can't remember seeing rules for
the Concealability of radio communications, except that the subvocal
microphones from Cybertech give a +4 to overhear such conversations, and
the cybercomm link makes it impossible to hear anything at all.

The radio stuff works like this, if you ask me: with a headware radio (.75
Essence) you can send and receive data, but you must speak out loud, or
at least whisper, to do so. Add a subvocal microphone and you can "talk"
without really speaking. With a cybercomm link, you can send your thoughts
instead of forming the words with your throat.
The commlinks from the SSC allow you to access multiple channels at the
same time -- so you could talk to someone listening at 100 MHz and to
another one listening at 110 MHz at the same time.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll watch it from the room inside my room.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 26
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:52:46 +0100
The Jestyr said on 16:02/27 Aug 96...

> > Especially
> > the damage resistance tests. It's the most important stat your PC can have,
> > almost.
>
> I try not to get shot. :)

I wonder where you got that brilliant idea from...? :)

> Yes, but this is CHICAGO you're talking about here. The only reason we
> survived Chicago was that we did it as a low-end run, when the outbreak
> was starting, rather than from a while after the outbreak...

The time between the wall going up and the nuking of the hive should be
the hardest time to survive, I think.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll watch it from the room inside my room.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 27
From: pbailey@***.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au (Peter Bailey)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 10:53:01
Hi Dvixen,

>
> I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, a=
nd
> read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and=
our
> group) the only person(s) to have missed this?
>
> > Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> > "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> > test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each ti=
me it
> > is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the=
dice
> > are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
>
> You know, it makes things a bit less M...like. (I know a player in o=
ur
> game who is not going to be happy...) <VVVVBG>

Do yourself a *HUGE* favour, and forget you ever saw this rule. If the
players question it, declare this rule invalid. The game is unbalanced
SOOOO far in the players favour when this rule is enacted it isn't funn=
y.

NPC's have an answer for almost everything the players have with the
exception of this rule. Case in point; 1 Sorcerer Adept. Had accrued a
karma pool of 8, spent most of his earned good karma on self-initiation=
.
Spent some of his essence and cash on some wired reflexes etc.
Took out a Wasp Spirit nest of 20 true forms average force 5, 12 flesh
forms, and the queen spirit force 8 SINGLE HANDEDLY! The character died
purely because of the poison of the spirits. The damage they had inflic=
ted
wasn't enough to do it.

We've now been playing without this rule for a few months, and the play=
ers
suddenly have to worry about mortality. They are still using their karm=
a
pools to buy extra dice for tests when they think they need them and th=
at
works well. Because of that, the game is still balanced in their favour=
,
but nowhere near as bad as before. We are all MUCH more happy now.

Luck,

--

Internet: pbailey@***.com.au Fidonet: 3:640/281.3

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GAT d s:+ a- C+>++++ U? P? L E? @* N+++ o? K? w--- O? M? V?
PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP++ t+ 5- X+ R+ tv b+++ DI? D++ G e h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
PGP fingerprint = 9C A2 D9 D8 CF 78 EC E7 3D 9F C7 C7 FD 11 85 4E
Member Team AMIGA
Message no. 28
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:19:24 GMT + 2:00
@ Do yourself a *HUGE* favour, and forget you ever saw this rule. If the
@ players question it, declare this rule invalid. The game is unbalanced
@ SOOOO far in the players favour when this rule is enacted it isn't funny.
@
@ NPC's have an answer for almost everything the players have with the
@ exception of this rule. Case in point; 1 Sorcerer Adept. Had accrued a
@ karma pool of 8, spent most of his earned good karma on self-initiation.
@ Spent some of his essence and cash on some wired reflexes etc.
@ Took out a Wasp Spirit nest of 20 true forms average force 5, 12 flesh
@ forms, and the queen spirit force 8 SINGLE HANDEDLY! The character died
@ purely because of the poison of the spirits. The damage they had inflicted
@ wasn't enough to do it.

Ummm. I haven't read anywhere where the NPC's can't have a Karma
pool, so there is nothing stopping a NPC from using it. We have also
instituted a home rule whereby a character can counter a karma point
used by an NPC by spending a karma and vice versa. ie Mage Mo (usual
arch enemy NPC) spends a karma to add an extra die to his sorcery,
Hermetic Harry can also spend a karma whereby he 'removes' the karma
spent by Mage Mo, not this *only* works if the characters involved
have the same skill. If for instance Mage Mo where to cast a spell at
Mike Merc, then Mike could not counter the karma added to Mo's
Sorcery but could spend a karma and add it to his body to resist
damage.

As for mortality, in our campagin 6 characters took on a
cockroach fleshform (force5) and ended up with two characters in
hospital, and two wounded.

@ We've now been playing without this rule for a few months, and the
players
@ suddenly have to worry about mortality. They are still using their karma
@ pools to buy extra dice for tests when they think they need them and that
@ works well. Because of that, the game is still balanced in their favour,
@ but nowhere near as bad as before. We are all MUCH more happy now.

We use the same system and can't complain.

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 29
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:36:16 GMT
Andre' Selmer writes

> Ummm. I haven't read anywhere where the NPC's can't have a Karma
> pool, so there is nothing stopping a NPC from using it.
I generally give all major NPC's karma pool, simply replacing treat
with karma and working out the dice pools generally is fine. Threat
ratings are great of grunts, saves calculating whats going on and
keeping track of which of the gangers/guards etc has combat pool
left. Generally magicians are always best on karma and pools simply
because small threat ratings are useless, no tactical discretion
while large ones are plain silly (like adding 6 dice to attack,drain
and defense, some magic pool...) and don't allow things like locked
combat sense or power foci to work properly. Fortunately the
opposition useually have very few spell casters so its not toomuch
work to track them.

> We have also
> instituted a home rule whereby a character can counter a karma point
> used by an NPC by spending a karma and vice versa. ie Mage Mo (usual
> arch enemy NPC) spends a karma to add an extra die to his sorcery,
> Hermetic Harry can also spend a karma whereby he 'removes' the karma
> spent by Mage Mo, not this *only* works if the characters involved
> have the same skill. If for instance Mage Mo where to cast a spell at
> Mike Merc, then Mike could not counter the karma added to Mo's
> Sorcery but could spend a karma and add it to his body to resist
> damage.
>
I don't see much point in this, but if you want to. I suspect all it
means is the side with the larger karma pool ends up with kamra equal
to 'what they started with' - 'what the opponent started with' when
folks start cancelling things?


> As for mortality, in our campagin 6 characters took on a
> cockroach fleshform (force5) and ended up with two characters in
> hospital, and two wounded.
If all at once i want to know what you were doing!
However if you had low initatives it would go first and i can well
believe a bug could flatten a couple of characters before you could
bring numbers to bear.

Mark
Message no. 30
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:37:39 -0800
At 10:52 8/27/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Maybe it's just me, but AFAIK you need a cyberware radio in order to use
>the commlinks on page 76 of the SSC. I can't remember seeing rules for
>the Concealability of radio communications, except that the subvocal
>microphones from Cybertech give a +4 to overhear such conversations, and
>the cybercomm link makes it impossible to hear anything at all.
>
>The radio stuff works like this, if you ask me: with a headware radio (.75
>Essence) you can send and receive data, but you must speak out loud, or
>at least whisper, to do so. Add a subvocal microphone and you can "talk"
>without really speaking. With a cybercomm link, you can send your thoughts
>instead of forming the words with your throat.
>The commlinks from the SSC allow you to access multiple channels at the
>same time -- so you could talk to someone listening at 100 MHz and to
>another one listening at 110 MHz at the same time.

I spent some time trying to reverse engineer a bunch of the basic headware
stuff, trying to work out what happens if you decide to make one jack work
as both a datajack and a chipjack, and how all the headware communications
stuff worked.

I noticed that a headware telephone is 0.5 Essence, while subdermal speakers
and microphone were 0.1 Essence each. My take on the SSC commlink is that
one of those (at 0.3 Essence) can replace the 0.3 Essence telephone transceiver
in a standard headware telephone, and thus have as many phone channels as you
want in that 0.3 Essence; similarly, it would replace a 0.3 Essence component
in a headware radio.

I've assumed that all cellular phone traffic has long since gone to one digital
packet standard. The extra 0.25 Essence for a headware radio is the overhead
signal processing for coping with all the different communications possibilities
(AM, FM, digital packet broadcast, whatever else they've come up with,
and all the different frequency spectrums [CB, Police, etc.]); I assume it
functions as a scanner for free.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 31
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:53:30 -0700
Peter Bailey wrote:
>
> Hi Dvixen,
>
> >
> > I have never seen the following rule before. (Played since... '90, and
> > read the rules how many times??? Never seen it before...) Am I (and our
> > group) the only person(s) to have missed this?
> >
> > > Page 191, Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures
> > > "A character can use 1 point from the Karma Pool to re-roll any
> > > test dice that failed... This process can be repeated, but each time it
> > > is done on a single test the Karma cost goes up by 1, until all the dice
> > > are successes or the character runs out of Karma."
> >
> > You know, it makes things a bit less M...like. (I know a player in our
> > game who is not going to be happy...) <VVVVBG>
>
> Do yourself a *HUGE* favour, and forget you ever saw this rule. If the
> players question it, declare this rule invalid. The game is unbalanced
> SOOOO far in the players favour when this rule is enacted it isn't funny.
>
> NPC's have an answer for almost everything the players have with the
> exception of this rule. Case in point; 1 Sorcerer Adept. Had accrued a
> karma pool of 8, spent most of his earned good karma on self-initiation.
> Spent some of his essence and cash on some wired reflexes etc.
> Took out a Wasp Spirit nest of 20 true forms average force 5, 12 flesh
> forms, and the queen spirit force 8 SINGLE HANDEDLY! The character died
> purely because of the poison of the spirits. The damage they had inflicted
> wasn't enough to do it.
>
> We've now been playing without this rule for a few months, and the players
> suddenly have to worry about mortality. They are still using their karma
> pools to buy extra dice for tests when they think they need them and that
> works well. Because of that, the game is still balanced in their favour,
> but nowhere near as bad as before. We are all MUCH more happy now.
>
> Luck,

We play with this re-roll rule and I have yet to find it unbalancing the
game in the runners favor. A karma pool of eight would only allow three
re-rolls on any one test (1+2+3=6) with two karma left for a couple of
other tests. Don't forget the NPC's have Threat Ratings in SRII that are
used on ANY attack or defense test without need to replenish (I take
that for resisting damage as well since PC's can use there karma pools
as such). Your spirits should have threat ratings equal to their force,
so I can't see your example of one Sorcer Adept taking out a Wasp Spirit
nest of 20 true forms average force 5, 12 flesh forms, and the queen
spirit force 8 all that plausible...at least it wouldn't happen in my
game. We currently have an average personal karma pool of 5-6 and a team
Karma of 50 in the group I GM and they burn through that like butter,
still finding themselves spanked by the opposition on more than one
occasion.

However, if you find yourself needing to, take the advice of the
sourcebook under the heading of Game Lethality and multiply all threat
ratings by 1.5. I did this at a time I had a group of rather advanced
players and suddenly mortality was all too real.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 32
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:01:04 -0700
<SNIP>

Andre' Selmer wrote:
> Ummm. I haven't read anywhere where the NPC's can't have a Karma
> pool, so there is nothing stopping a NPC from using it. We have also
> instituted a home rule whereby a character can counter a karma point
> used by an NPC by spending a karma and vice versa. ie Mage Mo (usual
> arch enemy NPC) spends a karma to add an extra die to his sorcery,
> Hermetic Harry can also spend a karma whereby he 'removes' the karma
> spent by Mage Mo, not this *only* works if the characters involved
> have the same skill. If for instance Mage Mo where to cast a spell at
> Mike Merc, then Mike could not counter the karma added to Mo's
> Sorcery but could spend a karma and add it to his body to resist
> damage.

Actually no NPC's listed have a Karma Pool anymore. I believe that's
what the Threat Rating replaces now. Personally I like it better. The
Threat Rating is always there on any offensive or defensive test, never
diminishes, never needs to replenish. As a GM you don't have to keep
track of how many points each of some odd dozen NPC's have used from
their pools so far.

However, as a GM you have full power to give NPC's pools as you like and
I kinda like your "give a point to keep another from using a point"
idea. I may have to use that with Threat Rating points somehow...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 33
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:08:21 -0700
Mark Steedman wrote:
<SNIP>

> I generally give all major NPC's karma pool, simply replacing treat
> with karma and working out the dice pools generally is fine. Threat
> ratings are great of grunts, saves calculating whats going on and
> keeping track of which of the gangers/guards etc has combat pool
> left. Generally magicians are always best on karma and pools simply
> because small threat ratings are useless, no tactical discretion
> while large ones are plain silly (like adding 6 dice to attack,drain
> and defense, some magic pool...) and don't allow things like locked
> combat sense or power foci to work properly. Fortunately the
> opposition useually have very few spell casters so its not toomuch
> work to track them.

I usually give Mages a threat rating for combat of half what's listed
(i.e. If they have a 5 due to magic capability and such, they have a 2
or 3 for firearms, melee, etc.) You'll find something similar listed in
some FASA modules and such as well.

I do concede that Threat Ratings are a bit confusing on how to figure in
Combat Sense, Foci, Totem Modifiers, Shielding and Spell defense
(especially given to others), Initiation bonuses, drek-cetera. I have
some house rules I uses on my own where every +2 dice bonus adds one to
the threat rating and shielding/spell defense given to another person
reduces the threat rating. Still, I'd welcome other suggestions.


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 34
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:29:17 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Peter Leitch wrote:

>
> I don't believe my eyes! How can your characters exist, but for re-rolls?
> Especially
> the damage resistance tests. It's the most important stat your PC can have,
> almost.
> I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
> pool of 30)
> consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool of 14,
> maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their re-rolls in
> two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
> and 12
> for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
> karma pool
> of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.
> PML
>
> Peter Leitch

That would have been a Cool campain I must say. :)


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 35
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:43:50 GMT
Loki writes
<SNIP>
>
> I usually give Mages a threat rating for combat of half what's listed
> (i.e. If they have a 5 due to magic capability and such, they have a 2
> or 3 for firearms, melee, etc.) You'll find something similar listed in
> some FASA modules and such as well.
>
The most detailed FASA version is in 'prime runners' which is where
they introduce normal and magical threat ratings, which they have
used occasionally in adventures since.

> I do concede that Threat Ratings are a bit confusing on how to figure in
> Combat Sense, Foci, Totem Modifiers, Shielding and Spell defense
> (especially given to others), Initiation bonuses, drek-cetera. I have
> some house rules I uses on my own where every +2 dice bonus adds one to
> the threat rating and shielding/spell defense given to another person
> reduces the threat rating. Still, I'd welcome other suggestions.
>
I just tend to use the PC rules as an easy solution. Mages are
generally rare enough not to cause a problem. I have seen FASA
modules list things like combat sense spells as +1threat/2 bonus
combat pool but this tends either to produce useless mages if the
numbers are small or gives them far too many dice on everything in
sight.

I suppose you could simply add up all the dice and divide them to
give yourself a guide, eg +1 threat per 2 or 3 points of foci, totem
mods etc. but it gives the NPC's little tactical option.

Also i find that 6 bonus threat dice are worth nothing compared to 3
or 4 (1/2 of) combat pool and a couple of rerolls at a vital moment,
you also get bad guys that die just bcause they rolled 6 1's on 9
dice which can make life to conveniently easy, sure if their pools
empty.

On the other hand threat rating is really great vs lots of incommings
because it doesn't run out, the only thing PC's get thats anything
like that is shielding, and that doen't stop well placed bullets :)

Mark
Message no. 36
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:59:08 +0000
On 28 Aug 96 at 9:29, Joker wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Peter Leitch wrote:
[snip]
> > I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
> > pool of 30)
> > consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool of 14,
> > maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their re-rolls in
> > two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
> > and 12
> > for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
> > karma pool
> > of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.

> That would have been a Cool campain I must say. :)
I have to disagree. High threat level does not translate to "good" for me. OK,
within the campaign it might be neccessary/interesting, but with us we have a
Karma Pool of 6 or less, with team Karma of about 8.
Sure, you can have an entertaining and demanding campaing with high pools, but
I have seen (with people with higher pools) that matters get _fast_ out of
hand, like shrugging off a couple of HMG or PAC rounds and the like...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 37
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:28:01 GMT + 2:00
<snip>

@ > We have also
@ > instituted a home rule whereby a character can counter a karma point
@ > used by an NPC by spending a karma and vice versa. ie Mage Mo (usual
@ > arch enemy NPC) spends a karma to add an extra die to his sorcery,
@ > Hermetic Harry can also spend a karma whereby he 'removes' the karma
@ > spent by Mage Mo, not this *only* works if the characters involved
@ > have the same skill. If for instance Mage Mo where to cast a spell at
@ > Mike Merc, then Mike could not counter the karma added to Mo's
@ > Sorcery but could spend a karma and add it to his body to resist
@ > damage.
@ >
@ I don't see much point in this, but if you want to. I suspect all it
@ means is the side with the larger karma pool ends up with kamra equal
@ to 'what they started with' - 'what the opponent started with' when
@ folks start cancelling things?

Our character don't very often use the rule because we have a
single karma pool, once karma is used from it *poof* its gone
forever, and considering that we have to use this karma for upgrading
skills and attributes, well waste not want not. In addition consider
the fact that we in our campaign we only allow the characters to
spend a single karma point per die roll (no matter what the skill)

@ > As for mortality, in our campagin 6 characters took
on a
@ > cockroach fleshform (force5) and ended up with two characters in
@ > hospital, and two wounded.
@ If all at once i want to know what you were doing!
@ However if you had low initatives it would go first and i can well
@ believe a bug could flatten a couple of characters before you could
@ bring numbers to bear.

Oh very simple actually. We had cornered the fleshform in an
ally, we knew where it was and it suspected that it was being
followed. We set up an ambush whereby two characters would charge it
from one side in the hopes to distract it while the other characters
came at it from behind. What we didn't know was that the fleshform
could see through the eyes (antenna) of all the &*%$& cockroachs in
the area and hence was able to counter the ambush by charging the two
character before they managed to set themselves. The cockroach
scraped one character, but both characters hits bounched off the
armour. In round #2 the other characters come charging in, the
character that was hit drops to the floor convulsing from poison
while the other character gets a lovely gash in the side. All hits
bounce off, round #3 gashed character drops to floor convulsing, mage
pulls out of combat to help poisoned characters, remain three members
attempt to decapitate fleshform finally manage about 4 rounds later
with two other characters wounded, they managed to resist most of the
poison effects due to anti-dote patchs.

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 38
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:45:19 +0100
Loki said on 11:01/27 Aug 96...

> Actually no NPC's listed have a Karma Pool anymore. I believe that's
> what the Threat Rating replaces now. Personally I like it better. The
> Threat Rating is always there on any offensive or defensive test, never
> diminishes, never needs to replenish. As a GM you don't have to keep
> track of how many points each of some odd dozen NPC's have used from
> their pools so far.

I don't think FASA has ever given any NPC a Karma Pool. It looks like
you're all confusing the Karma Pool with the normal Dice Pools, which NPCs
used to have in SR1 (Dodge Pool, Defense Pool, etc.) but which were
replaced with Threat Rating in SR2 to keep bookkeeping down. It's a lot
easier to just roll 2 extra dice every time, than to go "Okay, number 1
had spent 3 dice so he has 1 left, and number 2 had spent all his 5 dice.
So that leaves them with 5 and 3 dice to roll..."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Boing.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 39
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:27:08 GMT
Andre' Selmer writes

[cancelling karma points]
>
> Our character don't very often use the rule because we have a
> single karma pool, once karma is used from it *poof* its gone
> forever, and considering that we have to use this karma for upgrading
> skills and attributes, well waste not want not.
The 1st ED system, ok.

> In addition consider
> the fact that we in our campaign we only allow the characters to
> spend a single karma point per die roll (no matter what the skill)
>
Nasty. That must make things pretty lethal.

> @ > As for mortality, in our campagin 6 characters took
> on a
> @ > cockroach fleshform (force5) and ended up with two characters in
> @ > hospital, and two wounded.
> @ If all at once i want to know what you were doing!
> @ However if you had low initatives it would go first and i can well
> @ believe a bug could flatten a couple of characters before you could
> @ bring numbers to bear.
>
> Oh very simple actually. We had cornered the fleshform in an
> ally, we knew where it was and it suspected that it was being
> followed. We set up an ambush whereby two characters would charge it
> from one side in the hopes to distract it while the other characters
> came at it from behind. What we didn't know was that the fleshform
> could see through the eyes (antenna) of all the &*%$& cockroachs in
> the area
Nasty, not very standard, but SR critters are supposed to vary.

> and hence was able to counter the ambush by charging the two
> character before they managed to set themselves. The cockroach
> scraped one character, but both characters hits bounched off the
> armour. In round #2 the other characters come charging in, the
> character that was hit drops to the floor convulsing from poison
As i suspected, it avoided the friends in Melee. Bug poison is nasty,
only thing i ever saw make a PC inject hiself with Kamikazee. We'd
just watched the thing manage to do a light to the riggers Doberman
(first thing that had ever scratched it, I was playing at the time,
and were were a little impressed, esp as the thing started acting in
45 or so. Yes we were playing Missing blood at the time). Having
taken about an S from physical damage the Merc didn't fancy getting
poisioned as well and -4 boxes off damage from Kamikazee was the
surest thing to hand.

> while the other character gets a lovely gash in the side. All hits
> bounce off, round #3 gashed character drops to floor convulsing, mage
> pulls out of combat to help poisoned characters, remain three members
> attempt to decapitate fleshform finally manage about 4 rounds later
What was this thing wearing? or does your GM give fleshforms immunity
to normal weapons (which they souldn't get). It should have got
chopped senseless with 3 friends in melee. The only time i saw
players have problems killing flesh forms was when they showed up in
security armour and the best the PC's had was pistols, even burst
fire APDS and they were having problems.

> with two other characters wounded, they managed to resist most of the
> poison effects due to anti-dote patchs.
>
Very wise.

> Andre'
>
Mark
Message no. 40
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 28 Aug 96 09:10:00 -0400
> Oh very simple actually. We had cornered the fleshform in an
> ally, we knew where it was and it suspected that it was being
> followed. We set up an ambush whereby two characters would charge it
> from one side in the hopes to distract it while the other characters
> came at it from behind. What we didn't know was that the fleshform
> could see through the eyes (antenna) of all the &*%$& cockroachs in
> the area
Nasty, not very standard, but SR critters are supposed to vary.

> and hence was able to counter the ambush by charging the two
> character before they managed to set themselves. The cockroach
> scraped one character, but both characters hits bounched off the
> armour. In round #2 the other characters come charging in, the
> character that was hit drops to the floor convulsing from poison
As i suspected, it avoided the friends in Melee. Bug poison is nasty,
only thing i ever saw make a PC inject hiself with Kamikazee. We'd
just watched the thing manage to do a light to the riggers Doberman
(first thing that had ever scratched it, I was playing at the time,
and were were a little impressed, esp as the thing started acting in
45 or so. Yes we were playing Missing blood at the time). Having
taken about an S from physical damage the Merc didn't fancy getting
poisioned as well and -4 boxes off damage from Kamikazee was the
surest thing to hand.


Ah, Missing Blood is SUCH a classic...I think very shadowrun player I've
ever encountered has a nasty story or three about that one. This isn't
really related but it IS somewhat amusing....this is way back when were
still playing with our first group of characters(I, for example, was
playing a grade 5 mage....the others were similarly experienced) and if I
recall, were down in the basement preparing to enter a room where we
thought the creepy crawlies might be hiding(as it turns out we were right,
but we found out for sure the hard way) so the slottin' drek for brains
merc decides that he's going to go in first and check the place out. So he
SLOWLY creeps into the room, the next thing that we know(those of us still
in the hall) is that his character comes flying back OUT of the room, slams
into the wall on the other side of the hall and slumps to the ground.
Unfortuneately, he was followed out by 2 fly(?) spirits that BOTH still had
an action left....as it turns out my mage was the only one to make it out
of that fight(banished one, sent the other one packing with a SERIOUS mana
bolt) but he had something like 1 box under Deadly damage while he was
dragging the others' bodies out. Ahhhh, I love that module. :)

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 41
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 07:49:31 +1000 (EST)
> only thing i ever saw make a PC inject hiself with Kamikazee. We'd
> just watched the thing manage to do a light to the riggers Doberman
> (first thing that had ever scratched it, I was playing at the time,
> and were were a little impressed, esp as the thing started acting in
> 45 or so. Yes we were playing Missing blood at the time). Having

*grin* Bugs and drones... what memories that brings back. Like the
rigger's Steel Lynx that could not be hurt... Eventually all the bug
spirits flipped the drone onto its back so that it couldn't chase 'em
around - and the gun on top [bottom!] still mowed the feet off half of
'em. :)


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 42
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:35:16 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:

> I have to disagree. High threat level does not translate to "good" for me.
OK,
> within the campaign it might be neccessary/interesting, but with us we have a
> Karma Pool of 6 or less, with team Karma of about 8.
> Sure, you can have an entertaining and demanding campaing with high pools, but
> I have seen (with people with higher pools) that matters get _fast_ out of
> hand, like shrugging off a couple of HMG or PAC rounds and the like...
>
> Sascha

I agree that Low level threat games often are better paced and more
realistic but in our group we usually like to have one High THreat, Big
Gun incursion every few months to keep a little variety in our game. I
agree that prolonged Mercenary campains aren't for my of my group but it
is a nice change. :)

===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 43
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 29 Aug 96 09:01:00 -0400
> only thing i ever saw make a PC inject hiself with Kamikazee. We'd
> just watched the thing manage to do a light to the riggers Doberman
> (first thing that had ever scratched it, I was playing at the time,
> and were were a little impressed, esp as the thing started acting in
> 45 or so. Yes we were playing Missing blood at the time). Having

*grin* Bugs and drones... what memories that brings back. Like the
rigger's Steel Lynx that could not be hurt... Eventually all the bug
spirits flipped the drone onto its back so that it couldn't chase 'em
around - and the gun on top [bottom!] still mowed the feet off half of
'em. :)


Flesh forms, I presume???? I've noticed that drones are particularly
poor carriers of will and thus, are next to worthless when attach true
forms(the only worth that I *can* think of is as a distraction....and
even that wouldn't last long once the invae see that the thing has no
aura and is not alive.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 44
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:39:57 +0000
On 29 Aug 96 at 10:35, Joker wrote:
> > I have to disagree. High threat level does not translate to "good" for
me.
[snip]
> I agree that Low level threat games often are better paced and more
> realistic but in our group we usually like to have one High THreat, Big
> Gun incursion every few months to keep a little variety in our game. I
> agree that prolonged Mercenary campains aren't for my of my group but it
> is a nice change. :)
I agree, nothing like the feeling to run loose once in a while, getting out
the BIG guns to have some fun. Unfortunately one has to choose the place of
the shootout carefully, or too many participants might appear (LoneStar, with
really heavy weapons the military... ups!).

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 45
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:03:49 GMT + 2:00
<snip>

@ > In addition consider
@ > the fact that we in our campaign we only allow the characters to
@ > spend a single karma point per die roll (no matter what the skill)
@ >
@ Nasty. That must make things pretty lethal.

Well yes. Add into the fact that we play with increase damage by
categories and reduce it by blocks. We avoid gunfights often. After 1
success = 1 block off, every 2 successes thereafter = another block
off. Works the same for drain.


<snip cornering fleshform>

@ Nasty, not very standard, but SR critters are supposed to vary.

Our GM believes in variation to the rule! Makes some games really
interesting!

<snip battle>

@ As i suspected, it avoided the friends in Melee. Bug poison is nasty,
@ only thing i ever saw make a PC inject hiself with Kamikazee. We'd
@ just watched the thing manage to do a light to the riggers Doberman
@ (first thing that had ever scratched it, I was playing at the time,
@ and were were a little impressed, esp as the thing started acting in
@ 45 or so. Yes we were playing Missing blood at the time). Having
@ taken about an S from physical damage the Merc didn't fancy getting
@ poisioned as well and -4 boxes off damage from Kamikazee was the
@ surest thing to hand.

Desperate times desperate measures?

@ > while the other character gets a lovely gash in the side. All hits
@ > bounce off, round #3 gashed character drops to floor convulsing, mage
@ > pulls out of combat to help poisoned characters, remain three members
@ > attempt to decapitate fleshform finally manage about 4 rounds later
@ What was this thing wearing? or does your GM give fleshforms immunity
@ to normal weapons (which they souldn't get). It should have got
@ chopped senseless with 3 friends in melee. The only time i saw
@ players have problems killing flesh forms was when they showed up in
@ security armour and the best the PC's had was pistols, even burst
@ fire APDS and they were having problems.

Well body 5 and armour 6 (natural) is not a nice combination. All
the characters where using was swords and unarmed combat! We
originally wanted the bugger alive (we where offered 100,000=Y= by
D.Knight and affiliate (Read Big D) for the capture of an insect
totem shamen, 25K for a fleshform and some horrendus amount for a
spirit) We figured oh-easy 25K)

@ > with two other characters wounded, they managed to resist most of
the @ > poison effects due to anti-dote patchs.
@ >
@ Very wise.

The fact that we all carry around Rating 6 (or is it 8) patchs
has *nothing* to do with this encounter. This is a totally
unsubstansiated (sp) street romour. <grin>


Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 46
From: "Ronald Hitzler" <rohi@****.at>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:54:58 +0000
On 28 Aug 96 at 8:43, Mark Steedman wrote:

> The most detailed FASA version is in 'prime runners' which is where
> they introduce normal and magical threat ratings, which they have
> used occasionally in adventures since.
which type of supplement is 'prime runners' ?
is it an adventure, source book, ... ?
i can't find it anywhere!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald Hitzler
St. Valentin, Austria

email : rohi@****.at
fidonet : 2:314/12
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 47
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:14:07 GMT
Ronald Hitzler writes

> which type of supplement is 'prime runners' ?
> is it an adventure, source book, ... ?
source book

> i can't find it anywhere!
then give up.
Its not very useful. It contains a pile of poorly built archtypes
that are either about half as powerful as there stat values suggest
(there are folks in there with skills of 15!!!!! your average PC
with sills max 6 -8 could cream) or of archtypes that don't really
need stats

Get hold of the NERPS edition of 'edge runners' if you want decent NPC
runners, added bonus its free! and the folks in it though powerful
are far more useful IMHO. (oh and it unlike the FASA version has no
immortal elves :), though they don't bother telling you in prime
runners the guys as old as he really is )

>
>

Mark
Message no. 48
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:33:20 GMT
Andre' Selmer writes

> <snip>

>
> Well yes. Add into the fact that we play with increase damage by
> categories and reduce it by blocks. We avoid gunfights often. After 1
> success = 1 block off, every 2 successes thereafter = another block
> off.
I don't blame you! probably a lot more realistic but SR is dangerous
anyway, i suspect large amounts of cover and body bossting are rather
popular, particularly as you say, avoiding the fights.


> Works the same for drain.
Now thats nasty. Ok the L and M drain spells are ok but i doubt many
manabolts get cast needing 11 sucesses for no drain. However give you
stage up by levels its probably required to stop magic becoming over
powered.
>
> Desperate times desperate measures?
>
yes. we won, but by then we knew what to hit the bugs with. The flesh
forms never moved, incomming force 6 manaball vs willpower 1, oh
dear...... The queen took no less than 3 force 6 manabolts, and a
while because it wasn't keen on standing in the way of that.


> Well body 5 and armour 6 (natural) is not a nice combination. All
> the characters where using was swords and unarmed combat! We
> originally wanted the bugger alive (we where offered 100,000=Y= by
> D.Knight and affiliate (Read Big D) for the capture of an insect
> totem shamen, 25K for a fleshform and some horrendus amount for a
> spirit) We figured oh-easy 25K)
>
didn't know enough about bugs?
no its not a nice combo if you have no melee fiends, however i'm
quite used to seeing power levels of 10 or so out of melee, esp when
the big guys and dikoted katanas get going (for some reason i'm not
keen on monowhips). What you need is a nice augmented troll, low
flying (not using wings) bugs anyone?

> The fact that we all carry around Rating 6 (or is it 8) patchs
> has *nothing* to do with this encounter. This is a totally
> unsubstansiated (sp) street romour. <grin>
and even without the grin you really <smirk> expect anyone to believe
you :)

>
>
> Andre'
>
Mark
Message no. 49
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 18:01:02 +1000 (EST)
On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
> I agree, nothing like the feeling to run loose once in a while, getting out
> the BIG guns to have some fun. Unfortunately one has to choose the place of
> the shootout carefully, or too many participants might appear (LoneStar, with
> really heavy weapons the military... ups!).
>
> Sascha

Think Poland Forest, Out to find a Vampire cultists Masion and trash
it... It was a great run with Alot of BIG guns....Best of all, No police
:)


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 50
From: pbailey@***.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au (Peter Bailey)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 20:05:16
Hi Loki,

> We play with this re-roll rule and I have yet to find it unbalancing the
> game in the runners favor. A karma pool of eight would only allow three
> re-rolls on any one test (1+2+3=6) with two karma left for a couple of
> other tests. Don't forget the NPC's have Threat Ratings in SRII that are
> used on ANY attack or defense test without need to replenish (I take
> that for resisting damage as well since PC's can use there karma pools
> as such). Your spirits should have threat ratings equal to their force,
> so I can't see your example of one Sorcer Adept taking out a Wasp Spirit
> nest of 20 true forms average force 5, 12 flesh forms, and the queen
> spirit force 8 all that plausible...at least it wouldn't happen in my
> game. We currently have an average personal karma pool of 5-6 and a team
> Karma of 50 in the group I GM and they burn through that like butter,
> still finding themselves spanked by the opposition on more than one
> occasion.

Ruddy fantastic! Critter threat ratings! I knew I was missing something! My
faith in FASA designing balanced rules is restored. Thank you very much.
Until tonight the team has been meeting critters without threat rating
dice. From now on they shall, and I will now re-instate the reroll fails
rule. Ruddy marvellous, thank you for pointing that out.

<Maniacial grin splits GM's face as chilling laughter fills the air. Still
grinning face disappears into swirling mists leaving a faint wicked chuckle
floating into earshot from an insanely distant place.....>

--

Internet: pbailey@***.com.au Fidonet: 3:640/281.3

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Member Team AMIGA
Message no. 51
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 23:49:09 +1000
At 15:39 29/08/96 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>On 29 Aug 96 at 10:35, Joker wrote:
>> > I have to disagree. High threat level does not translate to "good"
for me.
>[snip]
>> I agree that Low level threat games often are better paced and more
>> realistic but in our group we usually like to have one High THreat, Big
>> Gun incursion every few months to keep a little variety in our game. I
>> agree that prolonged Mercenary campains aren't for my of my group but it
>> is a nice change. :)
>I agree, nothing like the feeling to run loose once in a while, getting out
>the BIG guns to have some fun. Unfortunately one has to choose the place of
>the shootout carefully, or too many participants might appear (LoneStar, with
>really heavy weapons the military... ups!).
>
> Sascha

Our *Big Gun* characters have turned to the economic arena for more
challenge. With the money these guys have made in the past (even with the
30% *laundering* fee, they made a lot) they've delved into the business
community of Seattle. Now, they aren't big players by any means; the
companies are simply not big enough to have a tier rating; but they are
players.
And let me tell you, when the run you are doing is the preservation of you
own office building against a Corp strike team or bunch of shadowrunners, the
stakes feel really personal.
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 52
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 23:49:07 +1000
At 10:59 28/08/96 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>On 28 Aug 96 at 9:29, Joker wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Peter Leitch wrote:
>[snip]
>> > I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
>> > pool of 30)
>> > consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool
of 14,
>> > maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their
re-rolls in
>> > two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
>> > and 12
>> > for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
>> > karma pool
>> > of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.
>
>> That would have been a Cool campain I must say. :)
>I have to disagree. High threat level does not translate to "good" for me.
OK,
>within the campaign it might be neccessary/interesting, but with us we have a
>Karma Pool of 6 or less, with team Karma of about 8.
>Sure, you can have an entertaining and demanding campaing with high pools, but
>I have seen (with people with higher pools) that matters get _fast_ out of
>hand, like shrugging off a couple of HMG or PAC rounds and the like...
>
> Sascha

Sascha, mostly we play lower level characters (for want of a better
term),
but sometimes we enjoy bringing out the big guns once in a while.

By the way, our PCs don't shrug off HMG or PAC rounds. Like everyone
else, we try to avoid them, or have the armour to cope, or avoid them. The most
spectacular avoidance I saw was for the cybered-to-the-hilt Bodyguard to shoot
down an AVM fired from a Wasp, while standing on a moving boat in choppy seas
(figure the modifiers!) with a PAC...and then take down the Wasp that fired it!!
I kid you not, the player rolled a 30 to take out the missile, and then two
24's (!!!!) to
take down the Wasp. Most amazing rolls I ever saw.

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 53
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 23:49:05 +1000
At 09:29 28/08/96 +1000, Joker wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Peter Leitch wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't believe my eyes! How can your characters exist, but for re-rolls?
>> Especially
>> the damage resistance tests. It's the most important stat your PC can have,
>> almost.
>> I've been in a run (Chicago...don't ask) where the entire team (team karma
>> pool of 30)
>> consisted of *very* experienced characters (minimum personal karma pool
of 14,
>> maximum 30 and most were at the high end) used practically all their
re-rolls in
>> two (count 'em) 2 encounters. And these are characters with skills of 10
>> and 12
>> for their weapons and major skills! We walked out of the run with a team
>> karma pool
>> of 18, after burning the rest just to survive.
>> PML
>>
>> Peter Leitch
>
>That would have been a Cool campain I must say. :)


Joker, that wasn't a campaign, that was a two-night run. Mostly the
rest of the campaign is not as deadly, but there are occassions. If you
and I ever meet, remind me to tell you about the Blake Island run.

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 54
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 11:37:12 -0700
Peter Bailey wrote:
<SNIP>
> Ruddy fantastic! Critter threat ratings! I knew I was missing something! My
> faith in FASA designing balanced rules is restored. Thank you very much.
> Until tonight the team has been meeting critters without threat rating
> dice. From now on they shall, and I will now re-instate the reroll fails
> rule. Ruddy marvellous, thank you for pointing that out.
>
> <Maniacial grin splits GM's face as chilling laughter fills the air. Still
> grinning face disappears into swirling mists leaving a faint wicked chuckle
> floating into earshot from an insanely distant place.....>

I have a feeling your PC's will find a big change in their opposition if
you haven't been playing with NPC threat ratings 'til now. <shudder>


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 55
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 13:14:43 +1000 (EST)
On Sat, 31 Aug 1996, Joker wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
> > I agree, nothing like the feeling to run loose once in a while, getting out
> > the BIG guns to have some fun. Unfortunately one has to choose the place of
> > the shootout carefully, or too many participants might appear (LoneStar, with
> > really heavy weapons the military... ups!).
> >
> > Sascha
>
> Think Poland Forest, Out to find a Vampire cultists Masion and trash
> it... It was a great run with Alot of BIG guns....Best of all, No police
> :)

Yeah...just bucket-loads of vampires!!! But it was heaps of fun...I
finally got to put an assault cannon to good use....blowing off a
vampire's brain stem has to really test out the regeneration...*grin*

Hamish




______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 56
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 22:23:48 -0700
Jamie Houston wrote:
> > Think Poland Forest, Out to find a Vampire cultists Masion and trash
> > it... It was a great run with Alot of BIG guns....Best of all, No police
> > :)
>
> Yeah...just bucket-loads of vampires!!! But it was heaps of fun...I
> finally got to put an assault cannon to good use....blowing off a
> vampire's brain stem has to really test out the regeneration...*grin*

AAARrrggghhhh...VAMPIRES...Run..Hide..er..Uh..Sorry about that..Old reflex..
We had one of the pre-prepared runs one time that our GM decided to tweek a
little and add a real vampire to it..I don't know what he was thinking..He
should have known how peranoid the party was about toothy blood suckers..
Anyway..We wouldn't go anywhere near the guy..problem was he was a main
character..one of the must interact with kind..otherwise it is impossible to
complete the run..He was pulling what little hair he had out trying to get us
to interact with this vampire..all the while we are headed the other
direction trying to keep from catching that particular infection.. As I
remember we had to shelve that run and start something else man was the GM
P.O.ed..Oh well, he should have used his noodle a little more and ascensed
the group a little better on that one.. :) Every time somebody brings up
Vamps I remember how frusterated that guy was...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 57
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 13:27:30 GMT + 2:00
@ > Well yes. Add into the fact that we play with increase damage by
@ > categories and reduce it by blocks. We avoid gunfights often. After 1
@ > success = 1 block off, every 2 successes thereafter = another block
@ > off.
@ I don't blame you! probably a lot more realistic but SR is dangerous
@ anyway, i suspect large amounts of cover and body bossting are rather
@ popular, particularly as you say, avoiding the fights.

Cover yes, Armour definately, Body Boosting well, lets one
character has bone lacing (plastic), thats me, the other character
has orthoskin 2. And that is that. We really advoid combat.

@
@ > Works the same for drain.
@ Now thats nasty. Ok the L and M drain spells are ok but i doubt many
@ manabolts get cast needing 11 sucesses for no drain. However give you
@ stage up by levels its probably required to stop magic becoming over
@ powered.

Yes, we have been playing that same characters for about 7 years
realtime, about 6 years gametime. It was a case of we didn't want to
abandon the characters after so much work, but we didn't enjoy mages
throwing 20 odd dice into a spell.

<snip>

@ didn't know enough about bugs?
@ no its not a nice combo if you have no melee fiends, however i'm
@ quite used to seeing power levels of 10 or so out of melee, esp when
@ the big guys and dikoted katanas get going (for some reason i'm not
@ keen on monowhips). What you need is a nice augmented troll, low
@ flying (not using wings) bugs anyone?

Oh we know enough about the bugs, our characters even know where
the main hive is, and chicago hasn't happened yet. In fact our
characters knew about the bugs just before anyone else, it was great
fun watch the big D learn what we knew. Prehaps I'd better explain.

The Loftwyer holds a party every year around June for some of the
top runners in the buisness, during this time there is a general
amnesty and ceasefire. It here that the various fixers get in contact
with runners and vice versa. Generally it a hugh meeting of about the
top 20-30 members of shadows and the various Johnsons. During this
period Loftwyer usually approahs various groups with runs that only
the best can hope to complete. This time Loftwyer hired the entire
group of runners present (with a few exceptions) to help find out
about the bugs. Knight was also present (allied with Loftwyer),
anyway Loftwyer and co drone on about what they know (very little)
etc. It is at this time that our characters bring out the tape of our
UB run (and a hell of a lot more data, personally researched). It was
great fun watching our GM go through all the facial expressions. He
had forgotten that we had half the stuff.


Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 58
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:26:28 +1000 (EST)
> Oh we know enough about the bugs, our characters even know where
> the main hive is, and chicago hasn't happened yet. In fact our
> characters knew about the bugs just before anyone else, it was great
> fun watch the big D learn what we knew. Prehaps I'd better explain.
>
> The Loftwyer holds a party every year around June for some of the
> top runners in the buisness, during this time there is a general
> amnesty and ceasefire.

Lofwyr isn't the big D. That's Dunky. (or was)
Message no. 59
From: AHayes@*******.com.au
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:35:15 +301000
r.macey @ student.qut.edu.au wrote
> Lofwyr isn't the big D. That's Dunky. (or was)

Ok - perhaps the game store I frequent doesn't carry the most recent
Shadowrun stuff.

I've seen quite a few references to Dunklezahn's (sp?) demise and am
wondering where is this information has come from? A Shadowrun sourcebook
I've yet to clap eyes on? The FASA web page? Where? :)

Thanks heaps.
Andrew.
Message no. 60
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:38:51 +1000 (EST)
> r.macey @ student.qut.edu.au wrote
> > Lofwyr isn't the big D. That's Dunky. (or was)
>
> Ok - perhaps the game store I frequent doesn't carry the most recent
> Shadowrun stuff.
>
> I've seen quite a few references to Dunklezahn's (sp?) demise and am
> wondering where is this information has come from? A Shadowrun sourcebook
> I've yet to clap eyes on? The FASA web page? Where? :)

FASA's web page (I think) and from Portfolio of a Dragon (or whatever it's
called). He was voted in as President and then assassinated by unknown
sources.


Ray.
Message no. 61
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:07:29 +1000 (EST)
On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, GRANITE wrote:
> >
> > Yeah...just bucket-loads of vampires!!! But it was heaps of fun...I
> > finally got to put an assault cannon to good use....blowing off a
> > vampire's brain stem has to really test out the regeneration...*grin*
>
> AAARrrggghhhh...VAMPIRES...Run..Hide..er..Uh..Sorry about that..Old reflex..
> We had one of the pre-prepared runs one time that our GM decided to tweek a
> little and add a real vampire to it..I don't know what he was thinking..He
> should have known how peranoid the party was about toothy blood suckers..
> Anyway..We wouldn't go anywhere near the guy..problem was he was a main
> character..one of the must interact with kind..otherwise it is impossible to
> complete the run..He was pulling what little hair he had out trying to get us
> to interact with this vampire..all the while we are headed the other
> direction trying to keep from catching that particular infection.. As I
> remember we had to shelve that run and start something else man was the GM
> P.O.ed..Oh well, he should have used his noodle a little more and ascensed
> the group a little better on that one.. :) Every time somebody brings up
> Vamps I remember how frusterated that guy was...

Our GM had a real thing for vampires...it started off when we where hired
to geek a guy who turned out to be a vampire, and turned out to be in a
big vampire cult, which turned out to especially want our blood
(well...after we toasted this guy...eventually *grin*) So we spent months
ascensing everyone and anyone who hired us, worked with us...or even
walked past us on the street! We got pretty good at killing
vampires...you know, blowing off their brain stem to create major tissue
damage. I had an adept with missile mastery who never went anywhere
without a dozen wooden stakes, and a bag of saw-dust!

I guess our GM was just pissed off at how we geeked anything he sent
against us in the first two rounds...at least these guys stood a chance
*grin*

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 62
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 21:32:40 -0700
Jamie Houston wrote:
> Our GM had a real thing for vampires......at least these guys stood a
> chance
> *grin*
>

I don't recall exactly where our fang phobia came from but it had to do
with our original GM..He instilled the fear totally in our group...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 63
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:07:12 GMT + 2:00
@ Jamie Houston wrote:
@ > Our GM had a real thing for vampires......at least these guys stood a
@ > chance
@ > *grin*
@ >
@
@ I don't recall exactly where our fang phobia came from but it had to do
@ with our original GM..He instilled the fear totally in our group...

Vampires? !!!!! <Sound of dwarf running away> <grin>

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 64
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:08:37 GMT + 2:00
@ Lofwyr isn't the big D. That's Dunky. (or was)

I know,I know. Serious lack of sleep does that to one. Whenever I
said Big D I ment to say Loftwyer.


Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 65
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:13:28 GMT + 2:00
<snip vampire bit>

@ Our GM had a real thing for vampires...it started off when we where hired
@ to geek a guy who turned out to be a vampire, and turned out to be in a
@ big vampire cult, which turned out to especially want our blood
@ (well...after we toasted this guy...eventually *grin*) So we spent months
@ ascensing everyone and anyone who hired us, worked with us...or even
@ walked past us on the street! We got pretty good at killing
@ vampires...you know, blowing off their brain stem to create major tissue
@ damage. I had an adept with missile mastery who never went anywhere
@ without a dozen wooden stakes, and a bag of saw-dust!

Hmm. I have the wooden stake idea, the wooden combat axe (cost
me a small bundle had to import Iornwood from Africa (blade), Willow
from England (handle) and a hold load of other things, heck, my
character even went as far as to try to get some holy water from the
Vatican. The wood bullet, but sawdust, never thought of that. Lets
guess used in the same way as blinding powder?

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 66
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:57:24 +0100
AHayes@*******.com.au said on 9:35/ 3 Sep 96...

> I've seen quite a few references to Dunklezahn's (sp?) demise and am
> wondering where is this information has come from? A Shadowrun sourcebook
> I've yet to clap eyes on? The FASA web page? Where? :)

FASA's web page has some stuff about Dunkelzahn, but on the whole you can
learn just as much by not visiting it as you can by looking at it, IMHO
(that's the difficult way of saying I think they could do a whole lot better
with that page :) There's two sources for material on Dunkelzahn's latest
exploits: Super Tuesday, which describes some of the motivations behind
him running for president (if you're not a GM, don't get this -- there's
five full adventures in it), and Portfolio Of A Dragon: Dunkelzahn's
Secrets, which is basically his will and some of the discussions it
started after the Big D got blown up. Although since no body was found...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Illusion of the equal rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 67
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 3 Sep 96 09:00:00 -0400
Get hold of the NERPS edition of 'edge runners' if you want decent NPC
runners, added bonus its free! and the folks in it though powerful
are far more useful IMHO. (oh and it unlike the FASA version has no
immortal elves :), though they don't bother telling you in prime
runners the guys as old as he really is )

What I'd like to know is that if he's an immortal elf, why did they bother
to give him stats(as opposed to the "other" immortal elf that they've made
such a to do over)?

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 68
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:10:57 -0600 (MDT)
Peter Bailey wrote:
|
|Ruddy fantastic! Critter threat ratings! I knew I was missing something! My
|faith in FASA designing balanced rules is restored. Thank you very much.
|Until tonight the team has been meeting critters without threat rating
|dice. From now on they shall, and I will now re-instate the reroll fails
|rule. Ruddy marvellous, thank you for pointing that out.

You can also go so far as to apply threat ratings to
vehicles, security systems, IC, etc. Of course your
players may not be too thrilled with the idea :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 69
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 00:43:48 +1000
At 09:00 3/09/96 -0400, readle.cr@**.com wrote:
>Get hold of the NERPS edition of 'edge runners' if you want decent NPC
>runners, added bonus its free! and the folks in it though powerful
>are far more useful IMHO. (oh and it unlike the FASA version has no
>immortal elves :), though they don't bother telling you in prime
>runners the guys as old as he really is )

OK, where do I get one? And what does NERPS stand for?
Unca Wes is driving me crazy...because he knows and I don't
(he's that kind of guy).

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 70
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 00:43:47 +1000
At 12:57 3/09/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>AHayes@*******.com.au said on 9:35/ 3 Sep 96...
>
>> I've seen quite a few references to Dunklezahn's (sp?) demise and am
>> wondering where is this information has come from? A Shadowrun sourcebook
>> I've yet to clap eyes on? The FASA web page? Where? :)
>
>FASA's web page has some stuff about Dunkelzahn, but on the whole you can
>learn just as much by not visiting it as you can by looking at it, IMHO
>(that's the difficult way of saying I think they could do a whole lot better
>with that page :) There's two sources for material on Dunkelzahn's latest
>exploits: Super Tuesday, which describes some of the motivations behind
>him running for president (if you're not a GM, don't get this -- there's
>five full adventures in it), and Portfolio Of A Dragon: Dunkelzahn's
>Secrets, which is basically his will and some of the discussions it
>started after the Big D got blown up. Although since no body was found...

Plus a ***kin' HUGE (forgive the shout) thread on the rec.games.frp.cyber
newsgroup, especially from the boys at Caltech. If you don't subscribe,
do...at least for a while. There have been up to 80 posts a day, although
things have quietened down a lot now.

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 71
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 3 Sep 96 10:08:00 -0400
Jamie Houston wrote:
> > Think Poland Forest, Out to find a Vampire cultists Masion and trash
> > it... It was a great run with Alot of BIG guns....Best of all, No police
> > :)
>
> Yeah...just bucket-loads of vampires!!! But it was heaps of fun...I
> finally got to put an assault cannon to good use....blowing off a
> vampire's brain stem has to really test out the regeneration...*grin*

AAARrrggghhhh...VAMPIRES...Run..Hide..er..Uh..Sorry about that..Old reflex..
We had one of the pre-prepared runs one time that our GM decided to tweek a
little and add a real vampire to it..I don't know what he was thinking..He
should have known how peranoid the party was about toothy blood suckers..
Anyway..We wouldn't go anywhere near the guy..problem was he was a main
character..one of the must interact with kind..otherwise it is impossible to
complete the run..He was pulling what little hair he had out trying to get us
to interact with this vampire..all the while we are headed the other
direction trying to keep from catching that particular infection.. As I
remember we had to shelve that run and start something else man was the GM
P.O.ed..Oh well, he should have used his noodle a little more and ascensed
the group a little better on that one.. :) Every time somebody brings up
Vamps I remember how frusterated that guy was...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE


Does anyone remember the old SR1 module DNA/DOA? Remember the part in
the sewers where it's pitch(and I mean pitch unless you bring a light
source) black and you get to roll on the oh so pathetic random
encounter table(wino, rats, rabid dog....GM looks at roll, looks at
chart, looks at roll.....smiles....vampire ;). Our pale friend with
the pointy teeth and the morbid disposition rises out of the muck and
pops the two people bringing up the rear with a combat axe(ouch!).
But wait! There's more! Bonehead at the front of the party(after
this run that was the PLAYER'S street name :) turns around and goes
FULL AUTO with an M-107. GM says, "Let's see, with low light, your
TNs are", player interrupts, "But I don't have any vision mags." Lets

see, I think that everyone behind this bozo took a minimum of a
moderate, EXCEPT the vampire! Yeesh.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 72
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures. -Reply
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:34:07 -0500
>You can also go so far as to apply threat ratings to vehicles, security systems,
>IC, etc. Of course your players may not be too thrilled with the idea :)
>
>-David

I'm not sure how to mentally picture a vehicle with a threat rating, other than
maybe Christine or Herbie :)

I'd say give the driver a threat rating, not the vehicle.

Security systems, and IC, hmmm. I could see giving Aztechnologies' security a
few extra dice, just to fit in with their rep...

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 73
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures. -Reply
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:32:06 -0600 (MDT)
Mike Elkins wrote:
|
|>You can also go so far as to apply threat ratings to vehicles,
|>security systems, IC, etc. Of course your players may not be too
|>thrilled with the idea :)
|>
|>David
|
|I'm not sure how to mentally picture a vehicle with a threat rating,
|other than maybe Christine or Herbie :)

Naw, Herbie is a free-willed City Spirit. Christine on the other
hand...

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 74
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures. -Reply -Reply
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 16:48:36 -0500
>>I'm not sure how to mentally picture a vehicle with a threat rating,
>>other than maybe Christine or Herbie :)
>
>Naw, Herbie is a free-willed City Spirit. Christine on the other hand...

<thinks for a moment, laughs> I think you're right!

I'd give him some threat/spirit energy dice all the same...

Here's an adventure idea: PCs are pinned in a back alley by Christine, only to be
rescued by Herbie the Love Bug. They find out that the two vehicles are locked in
an immortal fight for survival ("There can be only one!"). The PCs are enlisted
to
tilt the balance in Herbie's favor (he's a lover, not a fighter), only to discover that
Christine has enlisted Shaggy and Scooby on her side...

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 75
From: AHayes@*******.com.au
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:27:20 +301000
gurth@******.nl wrote
> > I've seen quite a few references to Dunklezahn's (sp?) demise and am
> > wondering where is this information has come from? A Shadowrun
sourcebook
> > I've yet to clap eyes on? The FASA web page? Where? :)
>
> FASA's web page has some stuff about Dunkelzahn, but on the whole you
can learn
> just as much by not visiting it as you can by looking at it, IMHO
(that's the
> difficult way of saying I think they could do a whole lot better with
that page
> :) There's two sources for material on Dunkelzahn's latest exploits:
> Super Tuesday, which describes some of the motivations behind him
running for
> president (if you're not a GM, don't get this -- there's five full
adventures in
> it), and Portfolio Of A Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets, which is
basically his will
> and some of the discussions it started after the Big D got blown up.
Although
> since no body was found...

Ok - I haven't seen the Portfolio. The last I had seen was Super Tuesday
in which he was going for president. I'll have to head into the city to
get to one of the good gamestores... :-)

Cya.
Andrew.
Message no. 76
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:49:54 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Andre' Selmer wrote:

> <snip vampire bit>
> Vatican. The wood bullet, but sawdust, never thought of that. Lets
> guess used in the same way as blinding powder?
>
> Andre'
>

Actually or GM was nice and let us use it to disrupt there Gas Form.
Nothing is as annoying as when a Vampire gets up after three clips of an
Ares Combat pumped into it and decides to float out the window. Blinding
Powder would be a good trick too though....When your faced with a Team of
six Vampires you try to get any edge you can....


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 77
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:37:29 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Joker wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Andre' Selmer wrote:
>
> > <snip vampire bit>
> > Vatican. The wood bullet, but sawdust, never thought of that. Lets
> > guess used in the same way as blinding powder?
> >
> > Andre'
> >
>
> Actually or GM was nice and let us use it to disrupt there Gas Form.
> Nothing is as annoying as when a Vampire gets up after three clips of an
> Ares Combat pumped into it and decides to float out the window. Blinding
> Powder would be a good trick too though....When your faced with a Team of
> six Vampires you try to get any edge you can....
>
We used to thwack the vamps with Yamaha Pulsar tasers which would put
them on the ground convulsing for a fairly long time....but the bastards
used to go gas form to get rid of the dart!!! So we whacked a pouch of
sawdust into the gas form...they reformed quicker'n you could say "Where
did I leave my assault cannon???!!!" *Grin*

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 78
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 22:58:25 -0700
Andre' Selmer wrote:
> @ Jamie Houston wrote:
> @ > Our GM had a real thing for vampires......at least these guys stood a
> @ > chance
> @ > *grin*
> @ I don't recall exactly where our fang phobia came from but it had to do
> @ with our original GM..He instilled the fear totally in our group...

> Vampires? !!!!! <Sound of dwarf running away> <grin>
>

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHEHEHEHEHEHEHAHAHAHAAHAHAHOHOHOHHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAEHWEEHEAHAEHAEHAEAHAHAHAHAAHA..choke..cough..hahaha..heh..Oh

I liked that... :)

--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 79
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures. -Reply -Reply
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 23:01:53 -0700
Mike Elkins wrote:
> Here's an adventure idea: PCs are pinned in a back alley by Christine, only to be
> rescued by Herbie the Love Bug. They find out that the two vehicles are locked in
> an immortal fight for survival ("There can be only one!")......
>

I like it..I like it..But, I think I will leave out Shaggy and Scooby..I
never did like that cartoon..I will probably change the angle a little
too..But I like it... ;)

--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 80
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:55:03 +0100
Joker said on 9:49/ 4 Sep 96...

> Actually or GM was nice and let us use it to disrupt there Gas Form.
> Nothing is as annoying as when a Vampire gets up after three clips of an
> Ares Combat pumped into it and decides to float out the window.

What you do is stand near the vampire, and when you see it start shifting
to mist form, pump enough rounds into it so it takes Deadly damage. Should
be easy enough to do with most automatic weapons or shotguns. A burst-fire
light pistol with Flechette ammo works for this, even.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Illusion of the equal rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 81
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:55:03 +0100
Peter Leitch said on 0:43/ 4 Sep 96...

> OK, where do I get one?

Paolo Marcucci's SR archive (see the FAQ). Follow the links to the NERPS
page and you should find it.

> And what does NERPS stand for?

Not "Nothing Ever Really Pleases Steve/Scott".

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Illusion of the equal rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 82
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures. -Reply
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:55:03 +0100
Mike Elkins said on 11:34/ 3 Sep 96...

> I'm not sure how to mentally picture a vehicle with a threat rating, other than
> maybe Christine or Herbie :)

Or KITT :)

> I'd say give the driver a threat rating, not the vehicle.
>
> Security systems, and IC, hmmm. I could see giving Aztechnologies' security a
> few extra dice, just to fit in with their rep...

I don't think you should give security systems or IC a TR. I see them as
somebody's competence at doing their job, which IC or vehicles or any
other technical constructs don't have. For tougher matrix security, you
just install better software (higher rating, which automatically gives
more dice).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Illusion of the equal rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 83
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:19:55 GMT + 2:00
@ On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Andre' Selmer wrote:
@
@ > <snip vampire bit>
@ > Vatican. The wood bullet, but sawdust, never thought of that. Lets
@ > guess used in the same way as blinding powder?
@ >
@ > Andre'
@ >
@
@ Actually or GM was nice and let us use it to disrupt there Gas Form.
@ Nothing is as annoying as when a Vampire gets up after three clips of an
@ Ares Combat pumped into it and decides to float out the window. Blinding
@ Powder would be a good trick too though....When your faced with a Team of
@ six Vampires you try to get any edge you can....

I'm faced (indirectly) by only one, as far as my character is
concerned you can never get too much of an edge. Right now the
snipers bullett from a *long* distance away is sounding good.



Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 84
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:30:14 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Joker said on 9:49/ 4 Sep 96...
>
> > Actually or GM was nice and let us use it to disrupt there Gas Form.
> > Nothing is as annoying as when a Vampire gets up after three clips of an
> > Ares Combat pumped into it and decides to float out the window.
>
> What you do is stand near the vampire, and when you see it start shifting
> to mist form, pump enough rounds into it so it takes Deadly damage. Should
> be easy enough to do with most automatic weapons or shotguns. A burst-fire
> light pistol with Flechette ammo works for this, even.

So, if they take a deadly they can't go gas form that round?

Hamish



______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 85
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:01:31 +0100
Jamie Houston said on 9:30/ 6 Sep 96...

> > What you do is stand near the vampire, and when you see it start shifting
> > to mist form, pump enough rounds into it so it takes Deadly damage. Should
> > be easy enough to do with most automatic weapons or shotguns. A burst-fire
> > light pistol with Flechette ammo works for this, even.
>
> So, if they take a deadly they can't go gas form that round?

That's what the GM ruled in that adventure, yes. AFAIK it doesn't say in
the rulebook whether they can or cannot, but to me it makes sense. In
game terms, my character just stood a few meters away from the vampire
and delayed his action until the vampire tried *anything* after which he
fired a burst into him. This while the other PCs were trying to find
silver knives to stick through his heart :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The wrong way is trying to make everybody else do it the right way.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 86
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:51:29 +1000 (EST)
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Jamie Houston said on 9:30/ 6 Sep 96...
>
> > > What you do is stand near the vampire, and when you see it start shifting
> > > to mist form, pump enough rounds into it so it takes Deadly damage. Should
> > > be easy enough to do with most automatic weapons or shotguns. A burst-fire
> > > light pistol with Flechette ammo works for this, even.
> >
> > So, if they take a deadly they can't go gas form that round?
>
> That's what the GM ruled in that adventure, yes. AFAIK it doesn't say in
> the rulebook whether they can or cannot, but to me it makes sense. In
> game terms, my character just stood a few meters away from the vampire
> and delayed his action until the vampire tried *anything* after which he
> fired a burst into him. This while the other PCs were trying to find
> silver knives to stick through his heart :)

It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...

We used to blast the crap out of a vampire and all delay actions to see
if he regenerated...if he did, we blasted him again...the best one we
ever did was three of us ganged up on a vampire and thwapped him with
8...count them, 8..white phosphorous grenades...poor thing hardly got a
chance to regenerate...*grin*

Hamish


______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 87
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:03:07 +0100
Jamie Houston said on 9:51/10 Sep 96...

> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...

I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The only
time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see if
the critter is REALLY dead.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I swore I'd never ever be like him...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 88
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:39:09 -0500 (EST)
>> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
>> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
>> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
>I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
>saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The only
>time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see if

They can regenerate stun damage, they just don't do it any faster than
normal humans. Of course since most of these critters have enormous amounts
of Body or Willpower, they should get back all Stun in a very short time
with a standard test.


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"Help! The toad is kicking my butt!"
Message no. 89
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:25:36 -0700
Jamie Houston wrote:
>
> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...

I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 90
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:32:17 -0600 (MDT)
Loki wrote:
|
|Jamie Houston wrote:
|>
|> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
|> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
|> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
|
|I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
|the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
|However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
|dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
|rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.

I don't know why but I just thought of an idea that your
players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
(no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 91
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:48:46 +1000 (EST)
> >
> > It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> > we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
> I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
> the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
> However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
> dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
> rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.

True, but the vamps used it against us. Vamp mages using nice
high-powered spells that give them physical drain, cause they know
they'll regenerate *that*... :)




Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 92
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:12:40 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Jamie Houston said on 9:51/10 Sep 96...
>
> > It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> > we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
> I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
> saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The only
> time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see if
> the critter is REALLY dead.
>
Fair enough...we were'nt sure about it...It had it's advantages ie
beating the crap out of a vampire and then killing him while he's out
cold (Bang!...5...Bang!...3...Bang!...6....Bang!...1!!!He's dead!!!
*grin*)But it had its disadvantages too...ie Vampires casting huge force
spell cos they could regenerate the physical drain!!!

Hamish, the mad Scot

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 93
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:37:13 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Loki wrote:

> Jamie Houston wrote:
> >
> > It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> > we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
> I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
> the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
> However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
> dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
> rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.

Amen to that!!! *grin*

Hamish



______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 94
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:41:23 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, David Buehrer wrote:

> Loki wrote:
> |
> |Jamie Houston wrote:
> |>
> |> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> |> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> |> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
> |
> |I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
> |the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
> |However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
> |dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
> |rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.
>
> I don't know why but I just thought of an idea that your
> players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
> hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
> come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
> every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
> (no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
> regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.

You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 95
From: lobo1@****.com (John E Pederson)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:59:04 PST
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:03:07 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
>Jamie Houston said on 9:51/10 Sep 96...
>
>> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
>> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked
>before...but
>> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
>I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
>saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The
>only
>time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see
>if
>the critter is REALLY dead.
I've always felt that Stun damage couldn't be regen'd. Why? First was
common sense, I didn't see it as likely. Second was game balance-I was
using a shapeshifter-mage at the time, and it just didn't seem fair.
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> I swore I'd never ever be like him...
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html
><-
>
>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>Version 3.1:
>GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
>Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
________________________________________________________________
/ \
| The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving |
| memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even |
| myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes |
| again. |
| |
| John "Lobo" Pederson, lobo1@****.com |
| http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm |
\________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 96
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:34:14 -0500 (EST)
>|> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
>|> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
>|> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>|
>|I've never really gotten an answer on that either. We've been playing
>|the same, that critters with regeneration don't regenerate stun.
>|However, once my players figured this out they're pretty capable of
>|dropping a critter unconcious and hacking the hell out of it 'til it
>|rolls a 1 on it's 1d6.
>
>I don't know why but I just thought of an idea that your
>players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
>hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
>come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
>every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
>(no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
>regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.

You evil SOB.
I think I love you! <evil grin>


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"Help! The toad is kicking my butt!"
Message no. 97
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:41:06 -0700
Gurth wrote:
>
> Jamie Houston said on 9:51/10 Sep 96...
>
> > It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> > we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
>
> I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
> saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The only
> time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see if
> the critter is REALLY dead.

Good point! Boy will my players be suprised when I add this little
glitch into things. ;o) Now your typical vampire or wendigo isn't going
to be some pu$$y when faced by two or three concussion grenades...

Muhahahahahahahahaha!!!


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 98
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:46:31 GMT
Jamie Houston

> > |>
> > |> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > |> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked before...but
> > |> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
The rules are unclear but unless you want embarassments involving
yamaha pulsars i suggest you rule they do.

> > players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
> > hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
> > come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
> > every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
> > (no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
> > regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.
>
> You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
> an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
> though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*
>
Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
that does not stop the GM!
Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!

They don't need it.

Mark
Message no. 99
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:02:25 -0700
Mark Steedman wrote:
>
> Jamie Houston
>
> > > |>
> > > |> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > > |> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked
before...but
> > > |> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
> The rules are unclear but unless you want embarassments involving
> yamaha pulsars i suggest you rule they do.
>
> > > players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
> > > hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
> > > come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
> > > every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
> > > (no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
> > > regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.
> >
> > You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
> > an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
> > though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*
> >
> Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
> that does not stop the GM!
> Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
> energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
> try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
> reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
> iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!

Actually, I've always been under the assumption spirit energy would only
affect the physical attributes and not the mental, since it's explained
as their interaction with the physical plane that causes it. I could be
wrong. Still even then, it's a scary prospect.

A reaction of 70, how'd you come by that?

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 100
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:16:30 GMT
Loki writes
> >
> > >
> > Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
> > that does not stop the GM!
> > Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
> > energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
> > try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
> > reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
> > iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!
>
> Actually, I've always been under the assumption spirit energy would only
> affect the physical attributes and not the mental, since it's explained
> as their interaction with the physical plane that causes it. I could be
> wrong. Still even then, it's a scary prospect.
>
it says in the Grimoire it affects attributes while manifest, but not
on the astral, which i always found strange.

> A reaction of 70, how'd you come by that?
>
force 10 +10 = effective 20. reac = force *3 so 60 (as the paragraph
above). initative 70 with the +10 for manifest spirit.
only some of them are this bad and i do rate a critter like this in
the Great dragon league of 'get outa here!!!!!!!'

Mark
Message no. 101
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:29:35 -0500 (EST)
>You evil SOB.
>I think I love you! <evil grin>
>
>
Don't EVEN think it!



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 102
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:48:45 -0500 (EST)
>Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
>that does not stop the GM!
>Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
>energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
>try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
>reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
>iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!
>
>They don't need it.
>
>>>>>[PLease, do not EVER say anything like that again... I'm
scared....]<<<<<
-Bull (06:43:28/09/11/57)



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 103
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:50:30 GMT
Steven Ratkovich writes

> >Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
> >that does not stop the GM!
> >Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
> >energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
> >try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
> >reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
> >iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!
> >
> >They don't need it.
> >
> >>>>>[PLease, do not EVER say anything like that again... I'm
scared....]<<<<<
> -Bull (06:43:28/09/11/57)
>
>>>>>[Oh but you do want to join with the queen, experience her love,
don't you <large grin>]<<<<<
-Faithful (Bugs:Are:Us|The/Universal/Brotherhood)

<grin> he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he <grin>
Message no. 104
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 21:53:56 +1100
>You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
>an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
>though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*

They don't, per standard rules. FASA, however, encourages GMs to vary
critter powers, ESPECIALLY those of insect spirits. For example, I once
extended the Share Willpower power to include ALL spells targetting
Willpower, not just things like Mind Probe. Really pissed off the mage
who gloated "Hah! I'll wipe out those 20 Ant Spirits with one Mana Ball!
TN 2, right?" (Amazingly, he still took down 5, and wounded 10 of the
rest. Even with a TN of 12.)


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 105
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:07:34 GMT
Robert Watkins writes
>
> They don't, per standard rules. FASA, however, encourages GMs to vary
> critter powers, ESPECIALLY those of insect spirits. For example, I once
> extended the Share Willpower power to include ALL spells targetting
> Willpower, not just things like Mind Probe. Really pissed off the mage
yes i managed that running the adventure, by mistake as it happened
but its far more fun :)

> who gloated "Hah! I'll wipe out those 20 Ant Spirits with one Mana Ball!
> TN 2, right?" (Amazingly, he still took down 5, and wounded 10 of the
> rest. Even with a TN of 12.)
>
yep, all of a sudden force 5 fleshforms in sec armour with ak97's are
'die you .... die!!!' not 'call the mage, oh yawn'. It was taking
about 3 bursts of APDS per bug till the rigger and vehile mounted
full auto LMG showed up, for once the cavalry was not over the top.

The magicians were getting fed up with will 10 bugs rolling over 20
dice resist

own willpower 2 + queen 10 + threat 5 + bug shaman sitting in astral
6 odd.

Proved just as hard as FASA cracked them up to be, and since when did
anything else manage that, par queen bugs. (without a few tweaks from
the GM, or extra good tactics or non wired 2 etc etc PC's)

Mark
Message no. 106
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:19:24 -0600 (MDT)
The Jestyr wrote:
|
|True, but the vamps used it against us. Vamp mages using nice
|high-powered spells that give them physical drain, cause they know
|they'll regenerate *that*... :)

:)

I'll be sure to give my players your email address after I
use this on them.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 107
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 11 Sep 96 10:13:00 -0400
>You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
>an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
>though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*

They don't, per standard rules. FASA, however, encourages GMs to vary
critter powers, ESPECIALLY those of insect spirits. For example, I once
extended the Share Willpower power to include ALL spells targetting
Willpower, not just things like Mind Probe. Really pissed off the mage
who gloated "Hah! I'll wipe out those 20 Ant Spirits with one Mana Ball!
TN 2, right?" (Amazingly, he still took down 5, and wounded 10 of the
rest. Even with a TN of 12.)

* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *

I LIKE that! I like that ALOT!!!

uhuh...uhuhuh.......hhuhuhuh......muahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! *as
lightning crashes all about the maniacally laughing GM* :)

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 108
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:47:07 -0500 (EST)
>> >>>>>[PLease, do not EVER say anything like that again... I'm
scared....]<<<<<
>> -Bull (06:43:28/09/11/57)
>>
>>>>>>[Oh but you do want to join with the queen, experience her love,
>don't you <large grin>]<<<<<
> -Faithful (Bugs:Are:Us|The/Universal/Brotherhood)

Boy I wish I'd posted that! (Say that Queen love stuff is that what you call
a "Lovebug?"


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"What?! No pretzels?!"
Message no. 109
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:24:50 -0500 (EST)
>>> >>>>>[PLease, do not EVER say anything like that again... I'm
>scared....]<<<<<
>>> -Bull (06:43:28/09/11/57)
>>>
>>>>>>>[Oh but you do want to join with the queen, experience her
love,
>>don't you <large grin>]<<<<<
>> -Faithful (Bugs:Are:Us|The/Universal/Brotherhood)
>
>Boy I wish I'd posted that! (Say that Queen love stuff is that what you call
>a "Lovebug?"
>
>
Well, this references the Herbie vs. Christine post a while back, but I
think we can definately say that Herbie is an Insect Spirit... A Beetle,
maybe of german origin...
<Insert silly GM grin here>



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 110
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:35:22 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, John E Pederson wrote:

>
> On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:03:07 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> >Jamie Houston said on 9:51/10 Sep 96...
> >
> >> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> >> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked
> >before...but
> >> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
> >
> >I think they can. PAoE talks about regenerating "damage" without
> >saying if that means Physical or Mental... sorry, Stun damage. The
> >only
> >time Physical damage is specifically mentioned is when checking to see
> >if
> >the critter is REALLY dead.
> I've always felt that Stun damage couldn't be regen'd. Why? First was
> common sense, I didn't see it as likely. Second was game balance-I was
> using a shapeshifter-mage at the time, and it just didn't seem fair.

You were playing a shape-shifter mage!!!!!!! If I even thought about
mentioning playing a shape-shifter I would get monkey-stomped by my
entire group! I would love to do it though....play a shape-shifter that
is...not get monkey stomped :)
Although our current GM played a vampire PC once...he found that walking
through 11 bursts from assault rifles in a round just got too boring :)

Hamish, the mad Scot

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 111
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:44:28 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Mark Steedman wrote:

> Jamie Houston
>
> > > |>
> > > |> It does make sense...and it is a whole lot easier on us mortals!
> > > |> Do vampires regenerate stun damage? This may have been asked
before...but
> > > |> we've been playing that they don't regenerate stun damage...
> The rules are unclear but unless you want embarassments involving
> yamaha pulsars i suggest you rule they do.
>
> > > players will hate. Apply the power Regeneration to a
> > > hive/colony of insect spirits (or other nasties that you
> > > come up with) as a whole. As long as the queen is alive
> > > every single member of the hive/colony regenerates damage
> > > (no need to roll the 1d6). And give the queen personal
> > > regeneration so it's not easy to take her out.
> >
> > You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
> > an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
> > though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*
> >
> Bugs have never been listed with regeneration by the book, however
> that does not stop the GM!
> Still they don't need it, FASA have suggested queens can get spirit
> energy, contemplate youre force 10 FASA queen with spirit energy 10,
> try body 20+, will 20, armour 20 + immunity to normal weapons 40,
> reac20*3 = 60, = attack skill 60 (by bug city), getting scared :),
> iniative 70+1D6 on the physical, oh dear bye!!!!!!!
>
> They don't need it.

It does seem a little redundant doesn't it :)

and Craig...if you are reading this.....DON'T YOU DARE EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Hamish, the mad Scot



______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 112
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:54:34 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >You are an evil, evil man...did you know that....Our GM read this and has
> >an evil smile on his face!!! I didn't think bugs could have regeneration
> >though...*ignorance shining like a beacon*
>
> They don't, per standard rules. FASA, however, encourages GMs to vary
> critter powers, ESPECIALLY those of insect spirits. For example, I once
> extended the Share Willpower power to include ALL spells targetting
> Willpower, not just things like Mind Probe. Really pissed off the mage
> who gloated "Hah! I'll wipe out those 20 Ant Spirits with one Mana Ball!
> TN 2, right?" (Amazingly, he still took down 5, and wounded 10 of the
> rest. Even with a TN of 12.)

That was cruel! You took away the only vestige of hope left to
Shadowrunners when fighting bugs...willpower targeting spells....
Meanie...:)
A cool little trick we used to fight bugs (which you've probably all
figured out anyway) is to spray our weapons with insect spray...it up's
the damage, and we could use our skill instead of willpower to attack
because we were using one of their vulnerabilities against them >:)

Hamish, the mad Scot


______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 113
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:57:15 +1000 (EST)
On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Jamie Houston wrote:

>
> You were playing a shape-shifter mage!!!!!!! If I even thought about
> mentioning playing a shape-shifter I would get monkey-stomped by my
> entire group! I would love to do it though....play a shape-shifter that
> is...not get monkey stomped :)
> Although our current GM played a vampire PC once...he found that walking
> through 11 bursts from assault rifles in a round just got too boring :)
>
> Hamish, the mad Scot
>

Yeah Stealth tests were a real challenge too...


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 114
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:57:42 -0500 (EST)
>That was cruel! You took away the only vestige of hope left to
>Shadowrunners when fighting bugs...willpower targeting spells....
>Meanie...:)
>A cool little trick we used to fight bugs (which you've probably all
>figured out anyway) is to spray our weapons with insect spray...it up's
>the damage, and we could use our skill instead of willpower to attack
>because we were using one of their vulnerabilities against them >:)
>
>
Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 115
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 12:55:29 +1100
>Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
>a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
>still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)

Except that they demanifest, break the enchantment, then come back and
eat your liver with some father beans.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 116
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:22:51 -0500 (EST)
>Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
>a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
>still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)

Whoops! That's a house rule!
Forgot to tell ole' Bull that one!
Not trying to reopen old anchoring/quickening debate, really, I'm not!


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"What?! No pretzels?!"
Message no. 117
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:23:57 -0500 (EST)
>>Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
>>a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
>>still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)
>
>Except that they demanifest, break the enchantment, then come back and
>eat your liver with some father beans.

Father beans?
Are they related to Mother beans?
If you're shopping for legumes, you'd probably have more luck with fava
beans than Father beans :-)


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"What?! No pretzels?!"
Message no. 118
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:24:55 -0500 (EST)
>>Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
>>a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
>>still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)
>
>Whoops! That's a house rule!
>Forgot to tell ole' Bull that one!
>Not trying to reopen old anchoring/quickening debate, really, I'm not!
>
>
>
Ok, I'm corrected... Shame on you MR. GM... Bad GM, Bad...



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 119
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:36:25 +0100
Steven Ratkovich said on 21:57/11 Sep 96...

> Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted with
> a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active, you
> still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)

So the bugs enter astral space, attack your blade, and leave you either
with a mundane weapon, or no weapon at all (depending on whether your GM
is nice enough to keep the focus in one piece after it loses its
enchantment). Then they pop back to the physical plane, out-Initiative you
by 30 or so, and use you and your buddies for laying eggs in...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tourist, Rincewind had decided, meant 'idiot'.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 120
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:36:25 +0100
Jamie Houston said on 9:35/12 Sep 96...

> You were playing a shape-shifter mage!!!!!!! If I even thought about
> mentioning playing a shape-shifter I would get monkey-stomped by my
> entire group! I would love to do it though....play a shape-shifter that
> is...not get monkey stomped :)
> Although our current GM played a vampire PC once...he found that walking
> through 11 bursts from assault rifles in a round just got too boring :)

Here, the trick is in altering the Regeneration power. One way to do this
is to make the player roll a Body test at the end of every turn, with a
TN equal to the boxes of damage taken (without wound mods); each success
removes one box of damage. Play around with, and modify, this suggestion
until you find one that suits you, but whichever one you choose should
prevent the characters from losing always and automatically ALL damage as
soon as the turn is over.

(I never liked the regeneration power as printed in the various SR books;
I think I'll convert it to the above rules for everyone -- if I ever throw
in a critter with this power, that is.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tourist, Rincewind had decided, meant 'idiot'.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 121
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 10:39:50 EST
%>That was cruel! You took away the only vestige of hope left to
%>Shadowrunners when fighting bugs...willpower targeting spells....
%>Meanie...:)
%>A cool little trick we used to fight bugs (which you've probably all
%>figured out anyway) is to spray our weapons with insect spray...it up's
%>the damage, and we could use our skill instead of willpower to attack
%>because we were using one of their vulnerabilities against them >:)
>
>
%Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted
%with a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active,
%you still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)



%Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
%Not a flame, but a small glow:)
----------------------------------------------------

Ok, I ignored this the first time but I think it's
time to stamp this idea back into the ground before
it grows into another 150+ mails thread :(.
you CAN NOT do that, you can only anchor/quicken
sustainable spells, so no hellblast or death touch
arrows or swords, sorry. [though I may allow that
for items coming from magic richert times, such as
excallibur and some such.]
Ferri
Message no. 122
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:36:32 GMT
Ferri Pagano writes
>
> %Another nice trick, it you can afford it, is to have a blade enchanted
> %with a slay insect spell. That way, even if you aren't magically active,
> %you still have a shot at harming those manifested bug spirits...:)
>
> Ok, I ignored this the first time but I think it's
> time to stamp this idea back into the ground before
> it grows into another 150+ mails thread :(.
> you CAN NOT do that, you can only anchor/quicken
> sustainable spells,
yes you can.
Quickening them won't do you much good, they won't last long enugh to
finish the job actually, but with anchoring instant spells are quite
easy you just need an activation link to set the off at the right
time, its the timing that gets hard.

> so no hellblast or death touch
> arrows or swords, sorry.
They are possible though generally rather tricky to implement.
Biggest problem fighting bugs with them is the true froms will just
destroy them astral before they manifest.

> [though I may allow that
> for items coming from magic richert times, such as
> excallibur and some such.]
> Ferri
>
Mark
Message no. 123
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[3]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: 12 Sep 96 08:36:00 -0400
Ok, I ignored this the first time but I think it's
time to stamp this idea back into the ground before
it grows into another 150+ mails thread :(.
you CAN NOT do that, you can only anchor/quicken
sustainable spells, so no hellblast or death touch
arrows or swords, sorry. [though I may allow that
for items coming from magic richert times, such as
excallibur and some such.]
Ferri

Yes YOU CAN anchor an instant spell. Grimoire(2nd ed) page 47, paragraph 3
"Links also allow certain type of spells to be connected to other spells
and act as triggers. For example, a detect person spell could be set up as
the trigger for a flame bomb spell. When the detect person spell detects a
person, it activates the flame bomb. Boom."(I guess that's opposed to a
detect person spell detecting a shrubbery :) You are correct in saying
that you cannot QUICKEN an instant spell. SR2 Grimoire page 44, column 2,
first paragraph under the heading Quickening, "Quickening is metamagic that
can make any sustained spell permanent, *without* (their emphasis, not
mine) need for a spell lock!" 'Nuff said.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 124
From: IEngelmann@***.com
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:22:59 -0400
>Humans cannot go above 9/9/9, trolls stop at 17/8/15.
>Even with a shape shifter (12/12/12 i think) or vampire (9/9/15) you
>can't do that....
>
>
No prob, a troll with very good cyber- and bioware.
BTW, a vampire has double the normal essence of the former being. So he can
get a strength score of 21 !.

Ilja Engelmann
Message no. 125
From: lobo1@****.com (John E Pederson)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:43:48 PST
On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:22:59 -0400 IEngelmann@***.com writes:
>
>>Humans cannot go above 9/9/9, trolls stop at 17/8/15.
>>Even with a shape shifter (12/12/12 i think) or vampire (9/9/15) you
>>can't do that....
>>
>>
>No prob, a troll with very good cyber- and bioware.
>BTW, a vampire has double the normal essence of the former being. So
>he can
>get a strength score of 21 !.
>
>Ilja Engelmann
>
>
Well, actually, the guy was using a Gargoyle, which is a race he pulled
off the net somewhere. NE-way, the Physical Attribute mods are only +2,
+1, and +1. Yeah, he had quite a bit of cyber and bioware, but we also
goofed on his attributes.


________________________________________________________________
/ \
| The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving |
| memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even |
| myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes |
| again. |
| |
| John "Lobo" Pederson, lobo1@****.com |
| http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm |
\________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 126
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:32:59 -0500 (EST)
>
>>Humans cannot go above 9/9/9, trolls stop at 17/8/15.
>>Even with a shape shifter (12/12/12 i think) or vampire (9/9/15) you
>>can't do that....
>>
>>
>No prob, a troll with very good cyber- and bioware.
>BTW, a vampire has double the normal essence of the former being. So he can
>get a strength score of 21 !.
>
>
But why? <shudder> ;-)



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 127
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:20:41 +1100
> Yes YOU CAN anchor an instant spell. Grimoire(2nd ed) page 47,
> paragraph 3
> "Links also allow certain type of spells to be connected to other
> spells and act as triggers. For example, a detect person spell could
> be set up as the trigger for a flame bomb spell. When the detect
> person spell detects a person, it activates the flame bomb. Boom.
> "(I guess that's opposed to a detect person spell detecting a shrubbery
> :) You are correct in saying that you cannot QUICKEN an instant spell.
> SR2 Grimoire page 44, column 2, first paragraph under the heading
> Quickening, "Quickening is metamagic that can make any sustained
> spell permanent, *without* (their emphasis, not mine) need for a
>spell lock!" 'Nuff said.

Not quite... yeah, you can anchor an Instant duration spell... but it's a
once-off. As soon as it's triggered, the spell energy dissapates, and all
you'd have left is a detect person anchor. And in the case of something
like Flame Bomb, odds are the anchoring item is destroyed as well. What a
waste of Karma.


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 128
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool, Rerolling Failures.
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:51:17 +1000 (EST)
On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Steven Ratkovich wrote:

> >We're (I'm?) still trying to get over the munchkin problem at the moment
> >anyway.
> >
> Join thce club. We had one kid playing a street sammy chromed as fast as he
> could be and carrying a big fragging gun. We gave the guy a hard time about
> playing a munchckin, and a couple weeks later he makes another cchar, thcis
> time it's a rigger. Cool, we thcink. HCCe's growing up. Nope. Turns out
> the only reason he was a rigger was because his old character couldn't
> personally carry the auto cannon...:)

Sounds depressingly familiar. I'm not going to name names, but our
group's had a couple of these...



Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------

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