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Message no. 1
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Karma Pool (Was: Re: Do I own SR II)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:49:44 +1000
Adam Getchell writes:

> Actually, Karma Pool _is_ limited.
> You can only use it to "save your butt". You cannot use it for
> picking locks, stealthing, B/R or Hacking for anything but Black IC. We
> thought this was the case too until we looked at Tom Dowd's comments
> about this -- something to the effect that perhaps one could use Karma
> Pool on skill rolls but certainly not at 1:1 and we haven't made rules
> for this yet, etc.

The rules say that you can spend karma from your karma pool for any
success test. Have a look at p 191 under Karma Pool (an old mail item
tells me).

You need to roll a natural success before you can buy extra successes
(at a cost of 2 Karma = 1 success, same as SR I I _think_). The only
ambiguity is whether a dice roll that you spent karma on can be called
a natural roll or not. (But that's not relevant in this discussion.)

What comments by Tom Dowd are you referring to? And what's this 1:1?

Restricting its use to situations where it can only be used to `save
your butt' sounds like it might eliminate most of the problems that
I see in having a Karma Pool. Together with a rule I _think_ I once
saw, that implied that when you spent karma to re-roll failed dice,
the 1st re-roll cost 1, the 2nd cost a further 2, the 3rd a further 3,
and so on. Is this a real rule?

luke
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (Was: Re: Do I own SR II)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:31:06 +1000
luke writes:

> The rules say that you can spend karma from your karma pool for any
> success test. Have a look at p 191 under Karma Pool (an old mail item
> tells me).

Yeah, we all have that number burnt into our minds :-)

> You need to roll a natural success before you can buy extra successes
> (at a cost of 2 Karma = 1 success, same as SR I I _think_). The only
> ambiguity is whether a dice roll that you spent karma on can be called
> a natural roll or not. (But that's not relevant in this discussion.)

Its one per success, and as for the other bit, I say _any_ roll is natural.

But we've been over this many times before, and thats lots, considering I
ain't been on here long.

> Restricting its use to situations where it can only be used to `save
> your butt' sounds like it might eliminate most of the problems that
> I see in having a Karma Pool. Together with a rule I _think_ I once
> saw, that implied that when you spent karma to re-roll failed dice,
> the 1st re-roll cost 1, the 2nd cost a further 2, the 3rd a further 3,
> and so on. Is this a real rule?

Yeah, that rule actually exists. And the idea of limiting the use of your
karma pool to circumstances where it will save our but isn't a bad idea. But
it gets a bit iffy. What if it's my action, I'm seriously wounded, and I
wanna use my karma to blow away the troll with the A-cannon who's gunna go
next? My life is not directly on the line; if you required that to use your
karma pool you have to be in a circumstance where you'd die if you didn't,
then I would have to wait 'till he actually shot me. Now, SR II being the
rather deadly game it is, I'd say that I would have more chance of killing
the troll than surviving the A-cannon shot. I personally can't see whats
wrong with allowing karma dice to be used for any roll, rather than just
save your butt rolls.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 3
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (Was: Re: Do I own SR II)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 14:55:13 -0700
First, it is true that successive re-rolls require greater karma
costs. 1 reroll requires 1 Karma, the 2nd requires 2, and so on.
I don't think you've read everything about Karma Pool. It can
only be used to "save your butt". This was confirmed by Tom Dowd. He
was talking about perhaps allowing the use of Karma Pool in non-critical
situations, but the cost would certainly be higher. Perhaps Dr. Doom or
Nightstalker could/would care to confirm these remarks.
I once believed that Karma could be used for anything. I found
it impossible to prevent my players from making everything. Basically,
as soon as I told them to roll dice, they used Karma to get high numbers
as a matter of course. Once this clarification was made, the game went
back to being interesting.
We developed quite a few abuses of Karma Pool before this stopped
it. The worst was Ritual Sorcery....

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 4
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (Was: Re: Do I own SR II)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:41:32 +1000
Adam writes:

> I don't think you've read everything about Karma Pool. It can
> only be used to "save your butt". This was confirmed by Tom Dowd. He
> was talking about perhaps allowing the use of Karma Pool in non-critical
> situations, but the cost would certainly be higher. Perhaps Dr. Doom or
> Nightstalker could/would care to confirm these remarks.
> I once believed that Karma could be used for anything. I found
> it impossible to prevent my players from making everything. Basically,
> as soon as I told them to roll dice, they used Karma to get high numbers
> as a matter of course. Once this clarification was made, the game went
> back to being interesting.
> We developed quite a few abuses of Karma Pool before this stopped
> it. The worst was Ritual Sorcery....

Well, I'll be damned, I always interpreted that it could be used on any roll
at all, not just life saving ones. Or by "butt saving" do you mean really
critical rolls? Like, say I'm trying to fasttalk the sec guard at the front
gate to the private elevator in the arcology into letting me enter. Now,
this would probably not be fatal if I fail, but what about if it is the
_only_ way to actually get in and complete some task neccessary to
successfully finishing the run? I would allow my players to use karma to
re-roll that if they wished. The clarifictaion makes little difference to
teams with low karma pools, but I could see it would make a hell of a lot of
a difference to a runner who had lots of karma. Also, what about the
consideration of I was going to be severely wounded by a shot hitting me,
and I want to use karma to lower the wound so that I can actually kill the
guy who did it next action? By the clarification, I would have to lump the
serious, and then use karma to re-roll my attack (providing it was a critical
one). Now, the amount of karma used either way would be pretty similar, but
I could escape a serious wound if I took the first option.

Also, what is the stance on re-rolling other PCs NPCs rolls? If I wanted to
could I force a re-roll of the bad guys attack instead of re-rolling my
resistance test?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 5
From: Stephane Lafrance <Stephane.Lafrance@***.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Karma Pool (Was: Re: Do I own SR II)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 14:14:57 EDT
----------------------[Reply - Original Message]----------------------

Also, what is the stance on re-rolling other PCs NPCs rolls? If I wanted to
could I force a re-roll of the bad guys attack instead of re-rolling my
resistance test?

=====================================================================
I don't think so. Karma affects only one's life, not the other. It is good
karma to resist well to an attack, but nothing could change the fact that the
other one (the attacker) has cought you well.

Stephan

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