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Message no. 1
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:41:18 -0700
Hi there,

Recently in my game, after a fair amount of consideration, I made the
decision to roll back to SR I Karma rules and abolish personal/team pools.

However, with regards to purchasing auto-successes, I did hang on to
the SRII rule that states one success must be achieved through dice
before successes can be purchased.

My main fear is of people abusing the auto-successes by being twinks.
eg: "I need to make an enchanting test to create my force 8 power foci -
two points of karma, I'm done." On the other hand, imo, burning Karma
contributes to the atmosphere of "This is what heroes are made of."
And I can see there may be some instances where buying luck regardless
of dice may contribute to drama, and be perfectly okay. Which tells me
I may have to just "play it by ear."

I noticed that several people here have stated they are still
using SR I rules for Karma. I was wondering if this condition for
purchasing auto-successes was also being used? And I was wondering
if you had specific reasons for and against this?


Any thoughts?

Thanks!
-Rob
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:17:41 -0400
At 02:41 PM 5/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>Recently in my game, after a fair amount of consideration, I made the
>decision to roll back to SR I Karma rules and abolish personal/team pools.

Outstanding choice my man!


>I noticed that several people here have stated they are still
>using SR I rules for Karma. I was wondering if this condition for
>purchasing auto-successes was also being used? And I was wondering
>if you had specific reasons for and against this?

Ah, yes.

We didn't for a while. Then after several of us GM's gave insane TN's for
a few things (i.e., the PCs weren't supposed to do it, but we gave them
TN's of like, 23, confident it wouldn't happen) and they burned Karma and
screwed the GM up.

So we do use the SR2 rules that requires at least one natural success
before you can purchase successes via Karma. It creates a better balance I
think, and it keeps the players/PCs from getting out of hand.

We also tended to disallow Karma from being burned on long-term type
things, like designing spell formulae and enchanting, since we knew buying
successes there could be potentially unbalancing, but this was a house
rule, not canon. It helped to prevent really outrageous foci, like Force
10 Power Foci and whatnot, since it would be extremely difficult to pull
off, not to mention it would take a very long time to enchant it in all
probability. Time off that would be better spent doing shadowruns.

Hope this helps a bit.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 01:58:28 EDT
In a message dated 5/15/98 5:23:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> We also tended to disallow Karma from being burned on long-term type
> things, like designing spell formulae and enchanting, since we knew buying
> successes there could be potentially unbalancing, but this was a house
> rule, not canon. It helped to prevent really outrageous foci, like Force
> 10 Power Foci and whatnot, since it would be extremely difficult to pull
> off, not to mention it would take a very long time to enchant it in all
> probability. Time off that would be better spent doing shadowruns.
>
Funny, I always thought the "Scavenger Hunt Item Requirements" list in the
Grimoire was more than adequate to deal with that problem. Sure you can make
you rating 10 foci, that's a what??? Target 16 to actually enchant base? You
need what, 1 or 2 -very- special items or materials to go into it. Why
certainly I understand, I am your GM, I understand completely...

Here is your Jar of Vaseline (hands over unsealed container)

(punt ... phew ... spit) and there is the sand kicked into your wounds to go
with it...

Have a nice day....

-K
Message no. 4
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:43:38 -0400
Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> said:
> In a message dated 5/15/98 5:23:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
> writes:
>
> > We also tended to disallow Karma from being burned on long-term type
> > things, like designing spell formulae and enchanting, since we knew buying
> > successes there could be potentially unbalancing, but this was a house
> > rule, not canon. It helped to prevent really outrageous foci, like Force
> > 10 Power Foci and whatnot, since it would be extremely difficult to pull
> > off, not to mention it would take a very long time to enchant it in all
> > probability. Time off that would be better spent doing shadowruns.
> >
> Funny, I always thought the "Scavenger Hunt Item Requirements" list in the
> Grimoire was more than adequate to deal with that problem. Sure you can make
> you rating 10 foci, that's a what??? Target 16 to actually enchant base? You
> need what, 1 or 2 -very- special items or materials to go into it. Why
> certainly I understand, I am your GM, I understand completely...

Actually, with a handfull or Orichalcum (5 units), approrpiate radicals
from the 3 basic food groups (herbs, crystals, metals), and a virgin
focus, the target number goes down to 5 for the enchanting test. The
special items may make things more difficult, but that's random chance.
The long part is the focus design, base time 60 days, TN of 10 on a magic
theory test. Repeat as needed till you get a focus that requires special
materials you have a chance of finding.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:53:53 EDT
In a message dated 5/16/98 11:44:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mooreb@****.FAC.COM writes:

> Actually, with a handfull or Orichalcum (5 units), approrpiate radicals
> from the 3 basic food groups (herbs, crystals, metals), and a virgin
> focus, the target number goes down to 5 for the enchanting test. The
> special items may make things more difficult, but that's random chance.
> The long part is the focus design, base time 60 days, TN of 10 on a magic
> theory test. Repeat as needed till you get a focus that requires special
> materials you have a chance of finding.
>
Ah, and people claim I have a thing with bending the rules. No offense guy,
but the idea of making multiple formulas for a particular foci "by the same
character" would not work out so well IMO. Also, that is an awful lot of time
that is being devoured, as design times for magical items are just as long as
the enchantment times IIRC. IF not, then perhaps it should be.

Also, on the list of things to get the target number down, yes, they are
accurate enough, but what about aquirable enough? That was the whole idea
behind the "Scavenger Hunt List" in the first place. It was meant as
something to make either a good role-playing hook or at the very least, to
make it more difficult to get hold of stuff.

The Virgin Telesma/Focus rules are also very peculiar, and IMO, not very well
detailed. Virgin means having never been utilized for other purposes or even
exposed to extreme variations of energy without pre-preparation. I have all
sorts of hell with Binder for example when it comes to this area. Oh sure,
getting it made ain't so bad, but if the project is multiple fold, then other
resources have to be brought in.

That Talesma/Focus can't be exposed to extremes in background count, without
requiring further cleansing afterwards. No one else can decide to try and
throw magic directly upon it either, lest you wind up in the same problematic
boat. Do NOT ever allow the budding magician who wants to impress you get his
hands on it and go assensing it for too long. Hell, we even had a magician
"fall asleep" with just such a thing once. He "dreamed" while
sleeping, and
the object was literally under his pillow. Word of Advice, "Dreaming
Magicians" are annoying, especially when couple with "Scheming GM's".

Guys, "VIRGIN TELESMA" means the extreme here. I think most of us have heard
the joke about "Don't say that!!! My ears are still Virgin..." or "He's
just
a virgin you know, can't let him see that stuff yet.. :P"

That is the exact same thing with magical stuff of the enchantmentable nature.
Only in the objects case, it's taken to the literal extreme and the not
humoristic.

-K
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Karma Question (SR I related)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:53:38 -0600
Robert Nesius wrote:
/
/ Hi there,
/
/ Recently in my game, after a fair amount of consideration, I made the
/ decision to roll back to SR I Karma rules and abolish personal/team pools.
/
/ However, with regards to purchasing auto-successes, I did hang on to
/ the SRII rule that states one success must be achieved through dice
/ before successes can be purchased.

/ I noticed that several people here have stated they are still
/ using SR I rules for Karma. I was wondering if this condition for
/ purchasing auto-successes was also being used? And I was wondering
/ if you had specific reasons for and against this?

Yes indeedee. I ran an adventure with some bombs and characters
without Demolitions were trying to default to disarm the bombs. If
they didn't get any successes they just bought them. It was very
unrealistic (IMHO) and unbalancing.

Since then I now require that at least one success be rolled when
defaulting before a success can be purchased with karma.

As for buying successes from a regular skill test (the character has
the skill) I let them buy successes even if they didn't roll any.

However, the cost of a success in my game is equal to the target
number divided by six, round up. This keeps characters from
purchasing a lot of successes vs a test with a high target number.

-David
--
"Never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

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