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Message no. 1
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Katana
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:15:02 +1000
I have always wondered about the whole usage of Katana's and swords in
Shadowrun. It seems to me that they were just a carry over from fantasy
RPG's. But, then today I was proven wrong. We had some bozo block of King
George square in the middle of Brisbane today with a pair of Katana's that
he flogged from a Surplus store across the road.

Some things....

NightRain.

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: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
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Message no. 2
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:11:22 -0700
Thus spake NightRain:
>
> I have always wondered about the whole usage of Katana's and swords in
> Shadowrun. It seems to me that they were just a carry over from fantasy
> RPG's. But, then today I was proven wrong. We had some bozo block of King
> George square in the middle of Brisbane today with a pair of Katana's that
> he flogged from a Surplus store across the road.

Well, if you just take the combat system in SR in to consideration,
they do give the wielder a +1 reach, which can make quite a difference
in determining who wins. As a style of weapon in the genre though, I
couldn't say, except maybe it's effectiveness and retro-like look add
something otherwise missing. Plus, it makes things more personal. :)

--
Mike Loseke | One is never deceived, one deceives oneself.
mike@*******.com | -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
Message no. 3
From: "J.G. du Chatinier" <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:40:42 +0100
At 10:11 28/03/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>Thus spake NightRain:
<<SNIPPA>>

> Well, if you just take the combat system in SR in to consideration,
>they do give the wielder a +1 reach, which can make quite a difference
>in determining who wins. As a style of weapon in the genre though, I
>couldn't say, except maybe it's effectiveness and retro-like look add
>something otherwise missing. Plus, it makes things more personal. :)
**
And a hell of a lot messier... taking it that you use a katana from up close
and personal and a gun from far and away.

<Pulp Fiction comes to mind...>

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
http://www.euronet.nl/users/chatin/index.htm
IDM

Vita Brevis
Message no. 4
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:01:38 EST
In a message dated 98-03-28 12:41:02 EST, you write:

<< > Well, if you just take the combat system in SR in to consideration,
>they do give the wielder a +1 reach, which can make quite a difference
>in determining who wins. As a style of weapon in the genre though, I
>couldn't say, except maybe it's effectiveness and retro-like look add
>something otherwise missing. Plus, it makes things more personal. :)
**
And a hell of a lot messier... taking it that you use a katana from up close
and personal and a gun from far and away.
>>

but a bladed weapon is *quiet*. if you're being stealthy, it won't matter.
Knives and Swords don't require the time and expense of tracking down a
Silencer or Sound Suppressor, and, in some ways, are easier to use.
but they don't help much if you enemy has an SMG ;]

Mgkelly
Message no. 5
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:30:03 +0000
> but a bladed weapon is *quiet*. if you're being stealthy, it won't matter.
> Knives and Swords don't require the time and expense of tracking down a
> Silencer or Sound Suppressor, and, in some ways, are easier to use.
> but they don't help much if you enemy has an SMG ;]

If your enemy has a chance to *use* that SMG, then it won't matter
with quiet, either, though.

If anyone's seen 'Leon'.. interesting philosophy. What kind of weapon
you use is determined by how good you are. If you're unskilled, you
use a sniper rifle. If you're good, you use pistols. If you are
really, really good, you use a knife. That would go for street
samurai, too - if you wear and use a katana, it is a powerful
statement about just how good you are. And as someone else mentioned,
it's the 'Samurai' in 'Street Samurai'.

Same way some people use Linux. It's an outdated OS only useful if
you're quite good at computing. Same kinda argument, and, obviously,
a lot buy into it. ;)
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 6
From: Ben <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:55:52 -0800
Fade wrote:
>
> > but a bladed weapon is *quiet*. if you're being stealthy, it won't matter.
> > Knives and Swords don't require the time and expense of tracking down a
> > Silencer or Sound Suppressor, and, in some ways, are easier to use.
> > but they don't help much if you enemy has an SMG ;]
>
> If your enemy has a chance to *use* that SMG, then it won't matter
> with quiet, either, though.
>
> If anyone's seen 'Leon'.. interesting philosophy. What kind of weapon
> you use is determined by how good you are. If you're unskilled, you
> use a sniper rifle. If you're good, you use pistols. If you are
> really, really good, you use a knife. That would go for street
> samurai, too - if you wear and use a katana, it is a powerful
> statement about just how good you are. And as someone else mentioned,
> it's the 'Samurai' in 'Street Samurai'.

For those of you who don't know, 'Leon' was released under the title 'The
Professional' in the united states. In the movie, Leon's philosophy was
centered around stealth. If your using a sniper rifle, and you are a
kilometer away from your mark, stealth is quite irrelevant. If your skilled
enough to be using a katana, you can get within a meter of him, and cleave
him in half before he realizes what's going on, or has an opportunity to
use that SMG, or whatever.

Of course, there is the Image thing, as well. Intimidation can be very
useful: on a FOX (A.K.A. the disaster network) special, there was an
individual, In Houston, Texas, I believe, who stole a katana from a pawn
shop, and used it to keep dozens of police at bay for over 12 hours.
Granted, because it was a cold day, and they were keeping him wet with a
fire hose, they were probably waiting for him to give in and surrender, but
they wouldn't get close to him until he was hit, with great force, by a
water cannon, and dropped his weapon.
>
> Same way some people use Linux. It's an outdated OS only useful if
> you're quite good at computing. Same kinda argument, and, obviously,
> a lot buy into it. ;)
> --
> Fade

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech
frech@********.com
Message no. 7
From: Jeremy Zimmerman <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:16:20 -0800
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, NightRain wrote:

> I have always wondered about the whole usage of Katana's and swords in
> Shadowrun. It seems to me that they were just a carry over from fantasy
> RPG's. But, then today I was proven wrong. We had some bozo block of King
> George square in the middle of Brisbane today with a pair of Katana's that
> he flogged from a Surplus store across the road.
>

That's nothing. Several months back a guy who'd just gotten out of a
mental hospital had gotten ahold of a rusty knock-off of a katana, and
started swinging it around in the middle of downtown Seattle. The police
sealed off three or four blocks in the middle of Downtown Seattle, used
buses and stuff to block roads, and fired rubber bullets at the guy
because no one was willing to try and get near him. This stand off lasted
for over 11 hours. On a weekday. You can just imagine what traffic was
like getting out of there. =P
Message no. 8
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:30:23 EST
In a message dated 98-03-28 16:30:58 EST, you write:

<< If your enemy has a chance to *use* that SMG, then it won't matter
with quiet, either, though.

If anyone's seen 'Leon'.. interesting philosophy. What kind of weapon
you use is determined by how good you are. If you're unskilled, you
use a sniper rifle. If you're good, you use pistols. If you are
really, really good, you use a knife. That would go for street
samurai, too - if you wear and use a katana, it is a powerful
statement about just how good you are. And as someone else mentioned,
it's the 'Samurai' in 'Street Samurai'. >>

well, quiet won't matter if they cap off a couple rounds ;] unless it's a
suppressed SMG, but i digress....bladed weapons might be good for a quiet,
first strike option. or attacking spirits (obviously)

btw, Fade, where exactly are you located? i remember 'The Professional', a
movie about a kick-artist whose name (IIRC) was Leon (i think. been awhile)
and i believe that he made a comment similar to the aforementioned quote,about
the 'Hitman Hierarchy' so to speak, as to the weapons a Wetboy uses throughout
his career.
just wanting to satisfy my idle curiosity as to whether it may have been
released in other countries under a different name.

but, i digress....

Mgkelly
Message no. 9
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:44:10 +0000
On 29 Mar 98, MgkellyMP5 disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

<snip>
> btw, Fade, where exactly are you located? i remember 'The
> Professional', a movie about a kick-artist whose name (IIRC) was
> Leon (i think. been awhile) and i believe that he made a comment
> similar to the aforementioned quote,about the 'Hitman Hierarchy' so
> to speak, as to the weapons a Wetboy uses throughout his career.
> just wanting to satisfy my idle curiosity as to whether it may have
> been released in other countries under a different name.

Yep, that's the one. It was released under a different name, though.

ObSR: That's a good "reference movie" for all the SR players, along
with Heat... ;>

> Mgkelly

"No women, no kids"

Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
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We want more female train drivers - a women has a right to choo-choose.
Message no. 10
From: Paul Yan <bushidoboy@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:54:38 -0800
---"Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" wrote:
> On 29 Mar 98, MgkellyMP5 disseminated foul
capitalist propaganda by
> writing:
> <snip>
> > btw, Fade, where exactly are you located? i
remember 'The
> > Professional', a movie about a kick-artist
whose name (IIRC) was
> > Leon (i think. been awhile) and i believe
that he made a comment
> > similar to the aforementioned quote,about
the 'Hitman Hierarchy' so
> > to speak, as to the weapons a Wetboy uses
throughout his career.
> > just wanting to satisfy my idle curiosity as
to whether it may have
> > been released in other countries under a
different name.
>
> Yep, that's the one. It was released under a
different name, though.

The hitman wasn't a kick artist. He was a
very good shot with any gun, but he preffered
to use a knife. The validation of the level of
'proffesionalism' with the "Hitman Hierarchy",
of "The better you get, the closer you can get
to your target. Start with a rifle, end with a
knife."
The movie was released as "The Proffesional",
though it is commonly mistaken for an anime
movie called "The Proffesional", based on an
idea of a hitman who only goes after Mafia and
Really Bad Guys. I know this really well is
because I've seen both movies and I work in an
Anime store.
>
> ObSR: That's a good "reference movie" for all
the SR players, along
> with Heat... ;>

Yup. That movie can show what a 'proper
attitude' for some SR's. Also the main bad guy
is a crooked cop. Nice way to do a outlaw
campaign.

> > Mgkelly
>
> "No women, no kids"

Paul H. Yan a.k.a. Bushidoboy@**********.com/
====={==================='

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Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:54:24 +0100
Fade said on 22:30/28 Mar 98...

> If anyone's seen 'Leon'.. interesting philosophy. What kind of weapon
> you use is determined by how good you are. If you're unskilled, you
> use a sniper rifle. If you're good, you use pistols. If you are
> really, really good, you use a knife. That would go for street
> samurai, too - if you wear and use a katana, it is a powerful
> statement about just how good you are. And as someone else mentioned,
> it's the 'Samurai' in 'Street Samurai'.

OTOH if you're an assassin (as in Leon), if you're really good you can get
close enough to use the knife without the target knowing until it's too
late. Whereas if you're a street sam, you _will_ end up in a firefight,
and then your katana is almost useless.

And yes, I know that good runners get to and away from the target without
letting anyone know they were there, but how many shadowrunners do you
know who absolutely never get involved in firefights on any kind?

> Same way some people use Linux. It's an outdated OS only useful if
> you're quite good at computing. Same kinda argument, and, obviously,
> a lot buy into it. ;)

[GridSec mode: ON]

Folks, please remember what casual remarks like that have lead to in the
past... If you must respond to this part of Fade's message, do it through
private email, else we'll have a good chance of ending up with another OS
flame war.

[GridSec mode: OFF]

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Worried that I just might win.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 12
From: Jyster Cap <jyster007@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 23:56:00 -0800
---Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM> wrote:
>
> Thus spake NightRain:
> >
> > I have always wondered about the whole usage of Katana's and
swords in
> > Shadowrun. It seems to me that they were just a carry over from
fantasy
> > RPG's.
Well Shadowrun has a Japanese taste and the Katana
and Samurai archtype are considered honorable, which runners are
supposed to be. I guess it depends on the
campaign. But it goes with the flavor of the
game universe.

> > But, then today I was proven wrong. We had some bozo block of King
> > George square in the middle of Brisbane today with a pair of
Katana's that
> > he flogged from a Surplus store across the road.

What does this last part mean? Where is this guy
from? Different type of slang I guess.
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Message no. 13
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:52:27 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Jyster Cap <jyster007@*****.COM>
>> > I have always wondered about the whole usage of Katana's and
>swords in
>> > Shadowrun. It seems to me that they were just a carry over from
>fantasy
>> > RPG's.
>Well Shadowrun has a Japanese taste and the Katana
>and Samurai archtype are considered honorable, which runners are
>supposed to be. I guess it depends on the
>campaign. But it goes with the flavor of the
>game universe.


Yeah but my point is that no part of the underworld today (in America
or Japan) that I know of uses Katana. It sort of seems weird that
they would make a 'come back'. Not impossible, but I always just felt
that the only reason they were there ws to appeal to RPG'ers who had
never played anything but a fantasy RPG, and couldn't live without
their swords :)

>> > But, then today I was proven wrong. We had some bozo block of
King
>> > George square in the middle of Brisbane today with a pair of
>Katana's that
>> > he flogged from a Surplus store across the road.
>
>What does this last part mean? Where is this guy
>from? Different type of slang I guess.


It was just a guy who walked into a surplus store, picked up a couple
of Katana, threatened the staff, then left the store and went across
the road into a big square full of people and started waving around
the Katana. Then the police arrived and closed of the square for 4 or
5 hours while they tried to 'talk him down'. Eventually they went in
with Capsicum spray and arrested him.

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 14
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:38:33 EST
I have been following this thread for awhile finally remembered why
Katanas made sense to me originally.
In SR ed.1 they made reference to the fact that many "new breed" Yakuza
had taken to wearing Katanas. I had assumed that this was due to the fact
that with the return of Imperial Japan and a rise of a pseudo-shogunate
that they grabbed this traditional symbol of rank, authority, and respect
in an effort to continue Legitimising themselves. Besides, if you look
like you know how to use it muggers won't hassle you often and if its
common knowledge that Yakuza carry them, well, I like to sleep soundly,
don't you?

J.T. Engstrom

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Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Katana
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:04:30 -0700
NightRain wrote:
/
[snip: why carry a katana?]
/
/ >Well Shadowrun has a Japanese taste and the Katana
/ >and Samurai archtype are considered honorable, which runners are
/ >supposed to be. I guess it depends on the
/ >campaign. But it goes with the flavor of the
/ >game universe.
/
/ Yeah but my point is that no part of the underworld today (in America
/ or Japan) that I know of uses Katana. It sort of seems weird that
/ they would make a 'come back'. Not impossible, but I always just felt
/ that the only reason they were there ws to appeal to RPG'ers who had
/ never played anything but a fantasy RPG, and couldn't live without
/ their swords :)

As someone else noted it's probably in imitation of the Yakuza, or a
Fad started by the Yakuza (not to say that the Yakuza consider it a
fad).

For example, bell-bottom pants are making a comeback (sorta). Why?
Hell if I know. Why did body piercing become such a sensation a few
years ago? Why did Volkswagon re-introduce the Beetle (and who's
seen their UFO TV ad? :)?

Fads come and go. Currently it's considered cool to carry a Katana
in SR 205x. <shrug>

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Katana, you may also be interested in:

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