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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:26:40 -0400
Aaaaaarrrgh. The katana does not do extra damage because of
superior craftsmanship, better edge, better balance, or any other of a
horde of pseudo-mystic "Japanese swords are just better" over-romanticized
crap. By the time 2050 rolls around, I'd doubt that there are very few
master swordsmiths still operating, so pretty much everyone will have the
cheap stuff.
There are two reasons a katana does more damage. The simplest is
because it is generally (though not always) wielded in two hands. The
other is in the way that it is used. European-style baldes are really
just edged bludgeoning weapons. You use its weight and your own brute
strength to try to hammer through their armor and bones (foil, epee, etc.
are obvious exceptions to this). A katana, on the other hand, is used in
an entirely different manner. The vast tissue-damaging potential comes
from the fact that most of the strikes are a sliding/slashing strike
rather than a chop or smash. Thus, by using the edge as it was
intended, one causes much more woundage. Tap your hand gently against a
razor blade. Nothing happens. Now slide your gently along that same
blade. Oooops. You're cut. Wow! it's deep, too! A katana works the
same way. In many cases, contact with the opponent's body is made only
6-8 inches from the tsuba (roundish guard), and the blade is then drawn
along its own length, letting the blade do its work. This is why Great
pain is usually taken to keep from hitting hard objects edge-on so as
not to chip the edge.
Sorry, I just had to answer this one. Everytime subjects like
the katana come up, people get all starry-eyed and say "gosh, they're so
cool" without ever really knowing the true reasons why.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Jeff Norrell <norrell@*******.ME.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:03:16 +0600
> Marc A Renoug wrote:
> Aaaaaarrrgh. The katana does not do extra damage because of
> superior craftsmanship, better edge, better balance, or any other of a
> horde of pseudo-mystic "Japanese swords are just better" over-romanticized
> crap. By the time 2050 rolls around, I'd doubt that there are very few
> master swordsmiths still operating, so pretty much everyone will have the
> cheap stuff.
> -snip-
> Sorry, I just had to answer this one. Everytime subjects like
> the katana come up, people get all starry-eyed and say "gosh, they're so
> cool" without ever really knowing the true reasons why.
>
> Marc

I'd have to agree with Marc on this one. To my (albeit, limited) understanding, the
katanas of myth and legend were exceptional blades simply from their processing. Japanese
swordsmiths repeatedly folded the metal for the blades making it extremely hard and
capable of holding an excellent edge. Consequently, this hardness is also the reason you
don't want to smack a rock or something with the cutting edge. I also (vaguely) remember
that the swordsmiths folded carbon into the iron, making steel. Can't remember if they
were the first to do so or not though.

So ends the metallurgy lesson for the day. :)

Jeff
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 13:06:37 -0400
>>>>> "Marc" == Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
writes:

Marc> Aaaaaarrrgh. The katana does not do extra damage because
Marc> of superior craftsmanship, better edge, better balance, or any
Marc> other of a horde of pseudo-mystic "Japanese swords are just
Marc> better" over-romanticized crap.

Nothing pseudo-mystical about it. But it is true that a well-crafted
blade is going to be better than a lesser blade, in general, and the
Japanese blades are superior in general, depending on the techniques
used in crafting the blade. There are six basic techniques that I
recall, varying from a machine-stamped hunk of steel to four-ply masame.

If you want more details I can provide them, privately, unless there's
really that much demaind for the info. But I will say this: folding
doesn't make a sharper blade. The reason for the folding/layering of
Japanese and Damascus blades is that it resists breaking. A cast blade
is homogenous throughout; if a crack develops the blade breaks. If a
layered blade develops a crack somewhere, it will only affect that
layer. At the lowest quality, Japanese blades were little more than a
hunk of iron and a hunk of hard steel with an edge; these would break
fairly easilly. At the higest quality, the techniques used by Murasame
and the other master craftsmen result in a blade with over 4 million
layers; very difficult to break.

Marc> By the time 2050 rolls around, I'd doubt that there are very few
Marc> master swordsmiths still operating, so pretty much everyone will
Marc> have the cheap stuff.

Not true. There are swordsmiths in Japan, and there always will be. It's
a tradition. However, Japanese law prohibits them from making more than
a handful of swords every year, and thus the prices are extraordinarilly
high (a high quality period sword will cost you between $20K and $50K; a
blade made in Japan today, same or even lesser technique, will cost two
to five times that amount). There are also a number of swordsmiths
outside of Japan who have studied and use the Japanese techniques, and
that number is growing.

Marc> There are two reasons a katana does more damage. The
Marc> simplest is because it is generally (though not always) wielded in
Marc> two hands.

Quite true. The two-sword styles (Ni-to Ryu, etc) are exceptions.

Marc> The other is in the way that it is used.
Marc> European-style baldes are really just edged bludgeoning weapons. [...]

Depends on the blade, but it is true that the medieval period longsword
is little more than a drop-forged steel club with a pointed tip. A sharp
edge is nearly useless against steel plate.

Marc> A katana, on the other hand, is used in an entirely different
Marc> manner. The vast tissue-damaging potential comes from the fact
Marc> that most of the strikes are a sliding/slashing strike rather than
Marc> a chop or smash.

Conversely, Japanese armors were designed to cause the edge to bind,
making it unable to slice through.

BTW, your average elf, standing at over 6 feet, is going to have a hell
of a time using a katana, because they're too small. He'd be better off
with a jin tachi.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 4
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:13:47 -0400
Rat wrote:

>At the lowest quality, Japanese blades were little more than a
>hunk of iron and a hunk of hard steel with an edge; these would break
>fairly easilly. At the higest quality, the techniques used by Murasame
>and the other master craftsmen result in a blade with over 4 million
>layers; very difficult to break.

From Swords and other Hilt Weapons by Micheal D Coe et. al. 1993.

" The smith first prepares his steels by repeatedly heating, quenching,
breaking up, and re-fusing the pieces together in order to obtain the
required degree of purity and adjust the carbon content. Next, a prepared
billet is heated in a charcoal furnace, beaten out and folded, and then
welded back onto itself using a flux of ashes. This process is repeated
several times until the billet is composed of a large number of intimately
welded layers. The SHINGANE, or core steel, is folded just a few times, and
is of relatively low carbon content for final toughness. The HADAGANE, or
skin steel, may be folded as many as fifteen times, although more foldings
than that will cause carbon dispersal across the boundaries of the layers and
break up the layer structure. The hadagane will have a higher carbon content
than the shingane.
Finally, both shingane and hadagane are beaten out into long bars, and
the hadagane folded around the shingane and welded to it throughout its
length. Then the welded length is beaten into its final shape in preparation
for the heat treatment. This involves covering the blade with a mixture of
ingredients, including clays and ashes, leaving only a thin layer along the
cutting edge and a thicker layer on the body of the blade, and heating the
whole to 'the colour of the moon in February or August', and then quenching
it in a trough of water.
The sword now has a central core of tough steel which gives the
resilience required to resist the violent shocks of combat, a hard surface to
deflect the cuts of enemy swords, and a yet harder edge which will retain it
sharpness even when used to cut through hard objects such as iron armor.
After the sword is polished [Swordsmith and polisher are different
craftsman...], the full effect of the complex manufacturing process becomes
evident. ..."

The process is nothing that could not be duplicated or even improved upon by
modern techiques. IMHO the effectiveness if the Katana is its' method of use
not its' method of construction.

Duke
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:46:50 -0400
>>>>> "Duke" == Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM> writes:

>> From Swords and other Hilt Weapons by Micheal D Coe et. al. 1993.
[...]

Murasame's technique is a little different. It works with four MASAME
bars that are folded and beaten out to evenly distribute the carbon in
the steel, and these four bars are welded and folded.

Duke> The process is nothing that could not be duplicated or even
Duke> improved upon by modern techiques.

To a degree, yes. But no machine can duplicate the ability of a skilled
craftsman.

Duke> IMHO the effectiveness if the Katana is its' method of use not
Duke> its' method of construction.

To a degree, yes. I merely pointed that out because blade quality does
have some impact. Given equivalent skill, a cheap hunk of steel is no
match to a Murasame, even though both are called "katanas".

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ of skin.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 6
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:55:08 -0400
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995, Duke Diener wrote:

> The process is nothing that could not be duplicated or even improved upon by
> modern techiques. IMHO the effectiveness if the Katana is its' method of use
> not its' method of construction.

Exactly.

Marc
Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:09:33 -0400
> >> From Swords and other Hilt Weapons by Micheal D Coe et. al. 1993.
> [...]
>
> Rat> Murasame's technique is a little different. It works with four MASAME
> Rat> bars that are folded and beaten out to evenly distribute the carbon in
> Rat> the steel, and these four bars are welded and folded.

I hate the term "welded" in this context. It is misleading to the
layman. Though technically correct, the term "bonded" is more
appropriate. It's not as though Murasame-sama sat down with his
handy-dandy oxy-acetylene torch and went to town.

> Duke> IMHO the effectiveness if the Katana is its' method of use not
> Duke> its' method of construction.

> Rat> To a degree, yes. I merely pointed that out because blade quality
> Rat> does have some impact. Given equivalent skill, a cheap hunk of
> Rat> steel is no match to a Murasame, even though both are called
> Rat> "katanas".

Agreed, but the point I was originally trying to make is that
regardless of craftsmanship, the way a katana is used contributes much
more to its incredible tissue-destroying capability than its
manufacture. So much of the "legend" you hear about the katana is pure
crap. It is overly hyped. Yes, they are traditionally very well made
swords, and the craftsmen who made them payed incredible attention to
detail. But it is the experienced hands wielding it that make it so
effective in combat.

Marc
Message no. 8
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Katanas
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 16:58:07 -0400
Rat wrote:

>To a degree, yes. I merely pointed that out because blade quality does
>have some impact. Given equivalent skill, a cheap hunk of steel is no
>match to a Murasame, even though both are called "katanas".

Of course, a weapon of superior construction is better than one of dubious
lineage. But in games terms I believe that in order to be considered a
"katana" it must meet minimum construction criteria, otherwise it is just a
sword that looks like a katana.

Duke

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Katanas, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!