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Message no. 1
From: Nacon _ nac0n@*******.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:43:00 EDT
Is it possible to use killing hands in atral space?

And could you use it on mundanes?
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Message no. 2
From: Ithlamor@***.com Ithlamor@***.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:00:18 EDT
You can use killing hands in Astral Space, but only against astrally active
targets (according to the SR3 rules; I'm not sure if this was the case in
SR2). Therefore, while you could use killing hands to attack another physad,
or a mage/shaman, it could not be used against mundanes.
Message no. 3
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:33:19 -0500
On Fri, 26 May 2000 19:00:18 EDT Ithlamor@***.com writes:
> You can use killing hands in Astral Space, but only against astrally
> active
> targets (according to the SR3 rules; I'm not sure if this was the
> case in
> SR2). Therefore, while you could use killing hands to attack
> another physad,
> or a mage/shaman, it could not be used against mundanes.

That doesn't sound right ...
I think you mean that the *adept* has to be astrally active to use
killing hands on astral targets ...

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 4
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:43:07 GMT
>From: "Nacon _" <nac0n@*******.com>
> Is it possible to use killing hands in atral space?
>
> And could you use it on mundanes?

Yes and yes but you have to be on the same plane as your target; you can go
astral (if you have astral perception) and attack astral entities or
mundanes (because astral perception makes you effectively dual natured - on
both planes). Should you manage to astrally project (physical mages can't
but I have found the adept power Astral Projection on the net so it's GMD)
then you can only use it to target astral or dual beings.

Phil
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Message no. 5
From: Ithlamor@***.com Ithlamor@***.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:09:15 EDT
Physical adepts can only astrally perceive anyway, so to hit a mundane, you
physically have to hit the person. An astrally perceiving adept can use
killing hands against a projecting mage, but they can not independently roam
astral space. They are still anchored in the physical.
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
> You can use killing hands in Astral Space, but only
against astrally active targets (according to the SR3
rules; I'm not sure if this was the case in SR2).
Therefore, while you could use killing hands to attack
another physad, or a mage/shaman, it could not be used
against mundanes.

Think about what you're saying, boys.

Killing Hands is a power ONLY available to adepts.
Adepts can NEVER gain the power of astral projection,
only astral perception. Thus, while perceiving,
they're still inside their bodies on the physical. If
they try to hit something on the astral, they can do
so. If they try to hit a dual-natured critter, they
can do so. If they try to hit a mundane - well, the
mundane must be PHYSICALLY present, right? So they're
engaging in a purely physical act, which gives them a
+2 penalty while using astral perception - but they
CAN do it.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 7
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:59:09 -0500
n Sat, 27 May 2000 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
> > You can use killing hands in Astral Space, but only
> > against astrally active targets (according to the SR3
> > rules; I'm not sure if this was the case in SR2).
> > Therefore, while you could use killing hands to attack
> > another physad, or a mage/shaman, it could not be used
> > against mundanes.

> Think about what you're saying, boys.
>
> Killing Hands is a power ONLY available to adepts.
> Adepts can NEVER gain the power of astral projection,
<SNIP>

There's always your friendly neighboorhood free spirit power of Astral
Gate. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 8
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
> > Think about what you're saying, boys.
> >
> > Killing Hands is a power ONLY available to adepts.
Adepts can NEVER gain the power of astral projection,
<SNIP>
>
> There's always your friendly neighboorhood free
spirit power of Astral Gate. :)
> D. Ghost

At which stage you're dealing PURELY with the astral
and the only other people/critters you can deal will
be astrally active and again the point is moot as
you're only dealing with people on one plane of
existence.

Anyway, I said adept can't get an astral projection
power. Astral Gate is a) quite different to astral
projection and b) not an adept power.

Stop being difficult, Al. Save it for the game. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 9
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 22:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
> > Think about what you're saying, boys.
> >
> > Killing Hands is a power ONLY available to adepts.
Adepts can NEVER gain the power of astral projection,
<SNIP>
>
> There's always your friendly neighboorhood free
spirit power of Astral Gate. :)
> D. Ghost

At which stage you're dealing PURELY with the astral
and the only other people/critters you can deal will
be astrally active and again the point is moot as
you're only dealing with people on one plane of
existence.

Anyway, I said adepts can't get an astral projection
power. Astral Gate is a) quite different to astral
projection and b) not an adept power.

Stop being difficult, Al. Save it for the game. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 10
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 01:13:40 -0500
On Sat, 27 May 2000 22:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> Anyway, I said adepts can't get an astral projection
> power. Astral Gate is a) quite different to astral
> projection and b) not an adept power.
>
> Stop being difficult, Al. Save it for the game. ;)

How is Astral Gate different from Astral Projection? Your astral form is
the same regardless of how you got there ...

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > Anyway, I said adepts can't get an astral
projection power. Astral Gate is a) quite different to
astral projection and b) not an adept power.
> >
> > Stop being difficult, Al. Save it for the game. ;)
>
> How is Astral Gate different from Astral Projection?
Your astral form is the same regardless of how you got
there ...
> D. Ghost

You're right - I remembered that Astral Gate took you
to the metaplanes, but forgot it could also take you
to the astral.

It's still fairly simple, though. Look at it this way
- you can only effect things on a plane that you're
currently on. If you're not perceiving or projecting,
you're on the physical. If you're perceiving, you're
on both the physical and the astral. If you're
projecting or gating, you're only in the astral (your
meat body doesn't count as you're separated from it).
So in the latter case, your killing hands power can
ONLY effect things that are astrally active (either by
being dual-natured, or by projecting, or by being
native to the astral (spirits)).

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 12
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:18:35 +1000
Speaking of Adepts and Astral, why isn't there an Astral Adept, that can not
cast spells, but can manipulate spirits and go Astral? I can't see it being
unbalancing personally, so I'm wondering why Astral Projection is the first
to go...
Message no. 13
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 11:11:19 -0500
:It's still fairly simple, though. Look at it this way
:- you can only effect things on a plane that you're
:currently on. If you're not perceiving or projecting,
:you're on the physical. If you're perceiving, you're
:on both the physical and the astral. If you're
:projecting or gating, you're only in the astral (your
:meat body doesn't count as you're separated from it).
:So in the latter case, your killing hands power can
:ONLY effect things that are astrally active (either by
:being dual-natured, or by projecting, or by being
:native to the astral (spirits)).
:
:====:Doc'

I think in this case, the Killing Hands power could not be used.
Physical adepts manifest powers by focusing mana though their bodies.
Remove the body, and you would remove the power, I think. Their powers
might function normally on the metaplanes, but astral space is different.

Mongoose

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Message no. 14
From: JKeith Henry neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Killing Hands in Astral Space


> I think in this case, the Killing Hands power could not be used.
> Physical adepts manifest powers by focusing mana though their bodies.
> Remove the body, and you would remove the power, I think. Their powers
> might function normally on the metaplanes, but astral space is different.
> Mongoose

Except that the books have stated that the powers of an Adept work equally
on all (I'm presuming all= astral and physical, the metaplanes actually have
a wider range of rules than those two combined) planes. There was once,
though I'm not digging for it right now, a statement that even the Mystic
Armor worked against attacks from the Astral Plane (such as those from
projecting magicians in astral-related combat).

Now I can see the point for those abilities that are "physical" in nature,
such as most of the improved physical senses or perhaps the Attribute Boost
ability, but those abilities that are directly stating the channeling of
mana or energy (such as Killing Hands), then it could apply towards astral
related actions (such as astral combat in this case).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 15
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Killing Hands in Astral Space
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
> :It's still fairly simple, though. Look at it this
way - you can only effect things on a plane that
you're currently on. If you're not perceiving or
projecting, you're on the physical. If you're
perceiving, you're on both the physical and the
astral. If you're projecting or gating, you're only in
the astral (your meat body doesn't count as you're
separated from it). So in the latter case, your
killing hands power can ONLY effect things that are
astrally active (either by being dual-natured, or by
projecting, or by being native to the astral
(spirits)).
> :Doc'
>
> I think in this case, the Killing Hands power
could not be used. Physical adepts manifest powers by
focusing mana though their bodies. Remove the body,
and you would remove the power, I think. Their powers
might function normally on the metaplanes, but astral
space is different.
> Mongoose

Hoo...interesting theory...and I'm inclined to support
it. The metaplanar functions...well, I'll leave that
to someone else to argue...

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Further Reading

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