Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nathan Sharpe)
Subject: Killing Players - a little long and boring :)
Date: Thu Nov 29 13:15:10 2001
I think one important issue regarding killing players is how serious your game
is. It seems that many players of RPGs take their games very seriously.
That's fine, but for some of us (maybe more than I think), gathering for an
RPG is more about the gathering than the RPG. It's just like any other game -
you get together, have a good time, everyone gets a break from sometimes
stressful everyday life, and we go home. For my group (maybe we're in a tiny
minority, at least on a SR mailing list :-) ), sometimes it's fun to have
something really silly happen, such as a troll get the stuffing beat out of
him by a human. Our mood (someone alluded to the importance of this earlier)
is much lighter, I think, than most groups. In our game, someone might even
die like this, and everyone still thinks it's humorous (this may be seen as a
rather juvenile way of gaming by so-called "veterans," but so be it). A
couple of qualifications here - first, as I mentioned, this is my group, and
I'm sure the same type of thing wouldn't work in other groups, which is fine.
IMO, there's no way that's better than all the others - if you want to take
your game seriously, that's great. Second, as I've not been playing SR very
long, I may not know that this type of gaming doesn't lend itself easily to
SR. If this is true (anyone?), then we'll either change our style or drop the
game.

Now, with that out of the way, I will say that I kill players quite a bit (or
let them kill themselves - however you want to look at it). My players would
rather be involved in some larger struggle and not be THAT important than be
the big players in a less "epic" struggle. So naturally, the story doesn't
suffer too much when a few PCs buy the farm. I also think a story such as
this is FAR more realistic. If the players are part of a world, then they
really aren't that important (something the PCs may have a hard time dealing
with, just like real-life folks). If they die and fail some run that they've
contracted for, then so be it. Even if it has far-reaching consequences (a
megacorp gaining a major advantage, some dangerous tech getting into the wrong
hands, an important person eating some lead, etc), it's still rather smalll
when looked upon as a part of a living world with an extensive history and an
uncertain future. In fact, it might even inject some extra excitement and
interest.

One more thing - I've found in my gaming (playing and GMing) that a few player
deaths every now and then do help make the threat of death real for the
players. They think more, are more cautious, etc., and as a result they have
more fun. This may not be a problem with some groups, but it surely is in
mine. For example, in one of our D&D campaigns a few years back (I was
playing in this one, not GMing), one of the other players mentioned to me
outside of the game that he was more couldn't help but be more willing to do
risky things because he knew the GM was sympathetic and would normally not let
his character die. When players are lulled into a sense of confidence such as
this, nothing wakes them up better than a violent death or two (or three,
four... :)).

Anyway, that's my half a nuyen (probably not worth the full 2 nuyens). I'll
get off the soapbox.

Happy playing,
Nathan
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Killing Players - a little long and boring :)
Date: Mon Dec 3 05:25:01 2001
Nathan Sharpe writes:

> I think one important issue regarding killing players is how serious your
> game is.

Yeah, I more or less agree. Many people take the game rather seriously. And
after all, if they're putting in all that effort to draft multi page
character histories and create complex backgrounds, then this is probably
fair enough. I've a tendancy in my games to put more effort into "saving"
old characters than new ones. Old PCs have more developed (in game)
histories, and not only the player, but me as a GM, have put much time and
effort into the plotlines that surround such characters. Sometimes, even,
future plotlines revolve around such characters. Thus I become more and more
hesitant to let such characters simply cark it as time goes on.

This reminds me of one, now little played PC, who screwed up seriously
several times. Being the softie that I am, I more or less let him get away
with it (rather than letting him get geeked or rot in prison for a
lifetime). Of course, there were appropriate repercussions.... <evil GM
grin>. About two years later, game time, he screwed up again. This time, the
party who had him decided to put a cortex bomb in his head. When they opened
him up, they found that they had nowhere to put one. So they just put their
trigger onto one of the multitude already there...

> I may not know that this type of gaming doesn't lend itself easily to SR.
> If this is true (anyone?), then we'll either change our style or drop the
> game.

I can see difficulties with it, but as someone else on here keeps quoting,
"different strokes for different folks". In as far as the difficulties go,
the game system has important focus devoted to things like contacts,
reputation, and other, less "tangible" character quantities. Unlike D&D
where pretty much everything about your character is represented by the
numbers on your sheet, characters in SR seem to have a lot of "player and GM
head knowledge and understanding" associated with them. Creating new ones,
and properly integrating them into the game, is not so simple as rolling up
a bunch of new statistics and selecting race, alignment, and class. OTOH,
it's probably easy enough to ignore or this kind of crap and have fun
without worrying about it too. Likewise, it's probably possible to have all
this roleplaying stuff occur in D&D too. It's just that SR has rules,
guidelines, and the intention of having such things. AFAIK, D&D doesn't.
Individual groups, however, may or may not at their own discretion.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a25 C++ US++>+++ P+ L+>++ E- W+ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@ M--
V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Killing Players - a little long and boring :), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.