Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:08:33 EST
In a message dated 98-02-15 08:00:21 EST, trrkt@*****.ONET.PL writes:

> > Secounded! badly done IE conspiracy (IMO), Ancient Magic orders,
> > the New Jesuits and a Vatican with nuclear tipped ICBMs. *Sigh*
> > though the last DOES give a new twist to the fire and brimstone
> > condemnations.:)
>
> Yeah. Talk about *effective* excommunications... (BTW: Where do they
> keep them? They have a sub? ;P)
>
The KT wing of the Catholic Church has access to damn near anything they want
to for "enforcing the will of god" upon the rest of the world. SOME of those
things are probably held at remote island locations (you always wondered what
those monks were hiding???) as well as vessels at sea (where they are in
International Waters and harder to control).

And ya know, I'm almost surprised they haven't come up some way to augment
their ability to "save people", like a Ritual Mob Mind or something...
-K (who is often glad that Aztlan and Tir kicked the church out of those
magical environs)
Message no. 2
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:04:18 PST
>In a message dated 98-02-15 08:00:21 EST, trrkt@*****.ONET.PL writes:
>
>> > Secounded! badly done IE conspiracy (IMO), Ancient Magic orders,
>> > the New Jesuits and a Vatican with nuclear tipped ICBMs. *Sigh*
>> > though the last DOES give a new twist to the fire and brimstone
>> > condemnations.:)
>>
>> Yeah. Talk about *effective* excommunications... (BTW: Where do they
>> keep them? They have a sub? ;P)
>>
>The KT wing of the Catholic Church has access to damn near anything
they want
>to for "enforcing the will of god" upon the rest of the world. SOME of
those
>things are probably held at remote island locations (you always
wondered what
>those monks were hiding???) as well as vessels at sea (where they are
in
>International Waters and harder to control).

If you haven't read the "Black Lodge" chapter of Threats, you should.
It talks about what "really" happened to the Knights Templar. :)


-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 3
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:02:51 -0005
On 15 Feb 98 at 10:08, J Keith Henry wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-15 08:00:21 EST, trrkt@*****.ONET.PL writes:
>
> > > Secounded! badly done IE conspiracy (IMO), Ancient Magic orders,
> > > the New Jesuits and a Vatican with nuclear tipped ICBMs. *Sigh*
> > > though the last DOES give a new twist to the fire and brimstone
> > > condemnations.:)
> >
> > Yeah. Talk about *effective* excommunications... (BTW: Where do they
> > keep them? They have a sub? ;P)
> >
> The KT wing of the Catholic Church has access to damn near anything they
> want to for "enforcing the will of god" upon the rest of the world. SOME
> of those things are probably held at remote island locations (you always
> wondered what those monks were hiding???) as well as vessels at sea
> (where they are in International Waters and harder to control).
>
> And ya know, I'm almost surprised they haven't come up some way to
> augment their ability to "save people", like a Ritual Mob Mind or
> something... -K (who is often glad that Aztlan and Tir kicked the church
> out of those magical environs)

I think you may be confusing the Knights of Malta with the Knights
Templar. The Knights of Malta is indeed a potentially powerful group,
though outwardly they seem to do little beyond charity. For those who
don't know, in the real world the Knights of Malta are a group of noblemen
(real nobles or those of noble decent, you must be able to prove noble
ancestry dating back at least 500 years to even be considered for
membership AND currently hold a title, that's for starters, they get picky
from there). These nobles are all wealthy and influential people to one
degree or another. They do charitable things around the world, helping
build hospitals and schools. They also, as part of their oath, swear
allegiance to the Pope. In short, if the Pope tells these guys to do
something, they'll do it, they're sworn too. And they take that oath
*very* serious. The Knights of Malta own a small island that is
officailly it's own nation (more fun with extraterratorality), whey
they have a castle, which is also a bit of a tourist trap these days.
That's the real world, I'll leave it to all the fertile imaginations out
there what they might be upto in 2059.
--
@>->,-`---
Ashlocke
o=<======-

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R
Message no. 4
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:34:01 +0100
> I think you may be confusing the Knights of Malta with the Knights
>Templar. The Knights of Malta is indeed a potentially powerful group,
>though outwardly they seem to do little beyond charity. For those who
>don't know, in the real world the Knights of Malta are a group of noblemen
>(real nobles or those of noble decent, you must be able to prove noble
>ancestry dating back at least 500 years to even be considered for
>membership AND currently hold a title, that's for starters, they get picky
>from there). These nobles are all wealthy and influential people to one
>degree or another. They do charitable things around the world, helping
>build hospitals and schools. They also, as part of their oath, swear
>allegiance to the Pope. In short, if the Pope tells these guys to do
>something, they'll do it, they're sworn too. And they take that oath
>*very* serious. The Knights of Malta own a small island that is
>officailly it's own nation (more fun with extraterratorality), whey
>they have a castle, which is also a bit of a tourist trap these days.
>That's the real world, I'll leave it to all the fertile imaginations out
>there what they might be upto in 2059.

Templar knights order was at first designed to help travelers. This was
especially intended to help pelerinages (again, I don't know the
translation so I'll try a definition : Travel to a holy place like
Compostelle).
They had to rescue them from thieves and give them food and/or a bed when
it was possible.
After some time, they became very powerful because of their strength (they
were very good warriors) and their money and began to become a political
and economic order. At that time, the Catholic Church condemned them to
excommunication. The french king decided to kill them with the hope of
taking their famous treasure (it's a common behavior during middle age. The
Church gives its opinion and condamnation - Church only states on souls of
the christians, they don't judge non christians - and the political power,
usually a king, takes his own decision ranging from not considering
Church's opinion to applicate Church's judgement with extreme retaliation
usually for a political/economic/military advantage).
Anyway, before dying, the templars' chief casted a malediction on the
french king and his sons to the 7th generation. The treasure was never
found but it's likely the treasure the templars were speaking about was a
spiritual treasure.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 5
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:49:38 +0000
William Gallas once wrote,

(snipped)

>The treasure was never
> found but it's likely the treasure the templars were speaking about was a
> spiritual treasure.

Treasure as in "Hidden room containing mounds and mounds of gold pieces
with swords and tapetries and coffers and a dragon for good measure"?
No... Treasure as in "a network of savvy bankers, castles, land and
retainers?". Hell Yeah. The Templars were pious, and observed a strict
life of prayer and poverty, but that didn't keep them from being the most
influencial bankers/lenders of that time. Hell, look at the Vatican
(supposedly living in prayer and poverty too (yeah, right)). For one
thing, they live in the most opulent luxury, and they have their hands in
a ton of public/private corporations (including Immobiliare, the biggest
real estate broker in Europe). Imagine something like the Vatican on a
lesser scale (power and money-wise) and you've got the Templars...
Phillip didn't lay his hands on 150,000 XP worth of treasure and a Holy
Avenger, but he sure liked the things that "poverty" brought....(and
bought).

Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by A Tribe Called Quest - "The Low-End
Theory"

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 6
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:33:02 -0500
William Gallas wrote:
> Templar knights order was at first designed to help travelers. This was
> especially intended to help pelerinages (again, I don't know the
> translation so I'll try a definition : Travel to a holy place like
> Compostelle).

I believe the word you are looking for is "pilgrimage".

> Church gives its opinion and condamnation - Church only states on souls of
> the christians, they don't judge non christians

Yeah, they just got people to kill them...

> The treasure was never
> found but it's likely the treasure the templars were speaking about was a
> spiritual treasure.

Probably not, the Templars were the richest group in europe for quite
some time. However it's speculated that they possesed the holy grail, as
well as the shroud of Turin (before it was called that). So who knows,
this was around 600 years ago after all.

--
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Knights Templar (Re: Religion)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:26:24 EST
In a message dated 98-02-16 11:57:58 EST, you write:

> Treasure as in "Hidden room containing mounds and mounds of gold pieces
> with swords and tapetries and coffers and a dragon for good measure"?
> No... Treasure as in "a network of savvy bankers, castles, land and
> retainers?". Hell Yeah. The Templars were pious, and observed a strict
> life of prayer and poverty, but that didn't keep them from being the most
> influencial bankers/lenders of that time. Hell, look at the Vatican
> (supposedly living in prayer and poverty too (yeah, right)). For one
> thing, they live in the most opulent luxury, and they have their hands in
> a ton of public/private corporations (including Immobiliare, the biggest
> real estate broker in Europe). Imagine something like the Vatican on a
> lesser scale (power and money-wise) and you've got the Templars...
> Phillip didn't lay his hands on 150,000 XP worth of treasure and a Holy
> Avenger, but he sure liked the things that "poverty" brought....(and
> bought).
>

Well said about the Templars ... they were also some of the most well educated
individuals in the world at that time too ... some of the places which they
set up buildings and the like showed signs of knowledge about advanced
mathematics (like geometry) and of other lost tech that was relearned or
learned from the Arabs, and the Church would have called it Satanism because
they wanted to be in control of everything that the people learned and would
deem acceptable also ...

Mike

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Knights Templar (Re: Religion), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!