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Message no. 1
From: "Patrick D. Little" <pdl@******.NET>
Subject: Language Barriers
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:33:26 PDT
I was just wondering, given the international scope of this list. Do parties consist of
people who speak english or are rules availiable in foreign languages?

-------------------------------------
Name: patrick
E-mail: pdl@******.net
Date: 08/10/95
Time: 16:36:35

This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 19:30:41 +0200
> I was just wondering, given the international scope of
> this list. Do parties consist of people who speak english or
> are rules availiable in foreign languages?
They are available in German, with about three or four months
delay (Fields of Fire just translated, "Kreuzfeuer")

Sascha

--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 10:21:14 +0200
>I was just wondering, given the international scope of this list.
>Do parties consist of people who speak english or are rules availiable
>in foreign languages?

What do you mean with "parties?" The group of players who play the
characters, or maybe the group of characters in the game? I think I don't
fully understand your question...

Anyway, that won't stop me from answering :) Rules exist in German, but I
don't know about other languages (I've seen some of the German ones -- the
best I thought was the Grimoire: "8th German Translation, 2053" instead of
"15th edition, 2053" :)
AFA the "parties" goes, if you mean groups of characters, well, yes, all
characters I've seen were played in Seattle (that includes my own group of
players, another Dutch group, a German one, and an English one), but the
_players_ were talking in their native language, not necessarily English. I
got asked that question when I was in the UK, though, "When you play SR, do
you speak Dutch or English?" 99% of the time Dutch, with some English words
and terms thrown in (mostly "shit" and "fuck," but I think we can
safely say
those have become Dutch words anyway :) Occassionally we switch to English
for a few sentences, usually prompted by me saying something like "Yes? How
can I help you?" in English when the PCs walk up to a reception desk :)

The hardest part is actually translating on the fly (as opposed to
programming on the fly :)... If I run a FASA module, I read it through
beforehand but make no notes, let alone translations. So when there's a Tell
It To Them Straight bit I'm translating while I'm reading, which can be a
bit annoying as my English is actually too good (sounds like I've got a
pretty high opinion of myself, doesn't it? :) -- what I mean is that I use
loads of English words without even trying to figure out what they mean in
Dutch, so when I do have to translate something I'm often looking for ages
to find the right word even though I know exactly what I want to say :(

Any other non-native English speakers have similar experiences?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
people who are experts at avoiding reality
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 4
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 11:52:47 +0200
> The hardest part is actually translating on the fly (as opposed to
> programming on the fly :)... If I run a FASA module, I read it through
> beforehand but make no notes, let alone translations. So when there's a Tell
> It To Them Straight bit I'm translating while I'm reading, which can be a
> bit annoying as my English is actually too good (sounds like I've got a
> pretty high opinion of myself, doesn't it? :) -- what I mean is that I use
> loads of English words without even trying to figure out what they mean in
> Dutch, so when I do have to translate something I'm often looking for ages
> to find the right word even though I know exactly what I want to say :(
>
> Any other non-native English speakers have similar experiences?

Yeah, sure. I even switch completly to English sometimes when writing things
down. This happens epecially when making up rules clarifications I send
via EMail to "my" group and got even worse since I got active on this
list :-/

Fortunately my speaking is that bad I really can't get anybody to understand
me when speaking English (but when I say "What is your Security Clearance,
Please?", but that's a completly different story :) so I will stick to German
while speaking...

Sascha

--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 5
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 17:41:48 +0200
At 10.21 13/08/95 +0200, you wrote:
>>I was just wondering, given the international scope of this list.
>>Do parties consist of people who speak english or are rules availiable
>>in foreign languages?
[snipping gurth's blatering :) ]
>
>Any other non-native English speakers have similar experiences?
>Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

Here, here!

We play in a curious mix of italian and english. The descriptions and talks
are all in italian, while some word (like Target Number or Target) remains
in english. Also in english remains all names either of gear or people and
some other like Armored Jacket (didn't want to translate this to Giubbotto
Antiproiettile, looks too much like the one our police wear sometimes :)

Anyway, at the end of august an italian traslation of the SR2 rules and the
SSC will be available at our stores. Maybe I'll get it, just to see how they
manage the translations.... I've already seen Metroplex translated to
Megaplesso, sheesh..)

Bye, Paolo

PS: I'm reconverting the Archive. Could someone please check if all the
links are ok?

On the subject of postscript files:

In the beginning the net was a unix-only thing. Everyone had a postscript
printer near their desk and PS was a laguage of choice for sheets and maps.
Now things are changing, PCs and Macs are more common than unix boxes and
postscript printers are not more required to print everything. While I
mantain a good degree of control over the contents of the Archive, I can
translate postcript files to another format, more suited to today's
computing environments. Any suggestion on which format could be used? (No, I
don't own an Adobe Acrobat Creator :)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider
Trieste, Italy - Ph. +39-40-774488 http://www.interware.it/
------------------------------------------------------------------
Home of The Shadowrun Archive at:
http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2
Message no. 6
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:18:59 -0400
On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> On the subject of postscript files:
> In the beginning the net was a unix-only thing. Everyone had a postscript
> printer near their desk and PS was a laguage of choice for sheets and maps.
> Now things are changing, PCs and Macs are more common than unix boxes and
> postscript printers are not more required to print everything. While I
> mantain a good degree of control over the contents of the Archive, I can
> translate postcript files to another format, more suited to today's
> computing environments. Any suggestion on which format could be used? (No, I
> don't own an Adobe Acrobat Creator :)

I think it should be either WordPerfect, Word, or RTF.

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 10:24:29 +0200
>We play in a curious mix of italian and english. The descriptions and talks
>are all in italian, while some word (like Target Number or Target) remains
>in english. Also in english remains all names either of gear or people and
>some other like Armored Jacket (didn't want to translate this to Giubbotto
>Antiproiettile, looks too much like the one our police wear sometimes :)

I forgot to mention that... Names of any and all gear and stuff remain in
English, except when they don't :) Like, we use "shotguns" but also
"aanvalsgeweren" (assault rifles), from which we fire "hagelpatronen"
(shot
shells) and "regular ammo" *grin*
I sometimes wonder what people (who're not RPers) would think if they heard
us play :)

>Anyway, at the end of august an italian traslation of the SR2 rules and the
>SSC will be available at our stores. Maybe I'll get it, just to see how they
>manage the translations.... I've already seen Metroplex translated to
>Megaplesso, sheesh..)

Stick to the English one to preserve your mental health :)

>On the subject of postscript files:
[snip]
>I can
>translate postcript files to another format, more suited to today's
>computing environments. Any suggestion on which format could be used? (No, I
>don't own an Adobe Acrobat Creator :)

How about Word or WordPerfect files, or maybe CorelDRAW? (In order of
preference :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
people who are experts at avoiding reality
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 8
From: Magnus 'Gizmo' Bergqvist <NDB123@***.SHV.HB.SE>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:23:24 MET-1MEST
> I was just wondering, given the international scope of this list.
> Do parties consist of people who speak english or are rules
> availiable in foreign languages?

Well, here in Sweden, we only have thye english rules. (but then we
study English from 3rd grade or (they have had ideas about starting
with it earlier...))

Ok, there are games that are translated into Swedish, but they are
easily counted: basic D&D, Chill (first edition), Merp and Starwars.

Much more fun to go the other way: Kult, Drakar och demoner, Mutant
chronichles. :)



*************************
* Wake up, time to die! *
*************************
Message no. 9
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:31:18 +0200
:->
:->Ok, there are games that are translated into Swedish, but they are
:->easily counted: basic D&D, Chill (first edition), Merp and Starwars.
:->
:->Much more fun to go the other way: Kult, Drakar och demoner, Mutant
:->chronichles. :)
:->

You know, the english names now sound so ...... prosaic (another
term for dull)

Andre'

Boom Boom Shake the Room !
-Phoenix, Pyromanical Hermetic Mage of Seattle 2053

Ou-oh.............I think we're in trouble now
What makes you say that ?
The fact that theres a dragon behind !
You're right...calmly now....RRRR U U NN N ||
R R U U N N N ||
RRRR U U N N N ||
R R U U N N N
R R UUU N NN ()

-a standard encounter
Message no. 10
From: Axel Strack <strack@***.TU-FREIBERG.DE>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 18:09:41 MESZ
We are a german group playing Shadowrun for about 2 years now. We are also
using the german rulebooks, because some of our players are not very good
at reading or speaking english (although nobody had less then five years
english at school :) ). But some sourcebooks are not availible in german
(like VR, RBB and Shadowtech :<) so we use the english ones. Our talk is
mostly held in german but somtimes mixed up with some english expression
(Hey, it sounds cool !).

Our group started playing in Seattle, but we moved to germany, because we
pissed off the UB a little bit to much. Our GM is happy because he can use
now all the nice little toys (and bad guys) from the german sourcebook.

BTW, the translation of the sourcebooks into german are pretty good, but
I`ve never seen one without mistakes <g>.

Axel Strack
strack@*******.tu-freiberg.de
(I`m too lazy to create a .sig)
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:22:37 +0200
>Much more fun to go the other way: Kult, Drakar och demoner, Mutant
>chronichles. :)

Drakar och demoner? So that's not a Swedish translation of D&D? (I'd
encountered the name in the mortuary, but thought it was just Swedish D&D...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
people who are experts at avoiding reality
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 12
From: Cugel the Clever <cugel@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:53:06 +01.0
On 13 Aug 95 at 10:21, Gurth wrote:

> I'm reading, which can be a bit annoying as my English is actually
> too good (sounds like I've got a pretty high opinion of myself,
> doesn't it? :) -- what I mean is that I use loads of English words
> without even trying to figure out what they mean in Dutch, so when I
> do have to translate something I'm often looking for ages to find
> the right word even though I know exactly what I want to say :(

That sounds familiar :) Lately I've switched to reading it out in
English completely or just translate it before the session. It all
depends a bit on the way I'm feeling. I have those days were I almost
only read and just think in English, and then it's easier in English.

For all the other stuff (weapons, cars, etc.) we use the English
terms mixed in Dutch sentences. Also things like the word Target
number, drain, force, spell names, etc. stay in English. Trust me,
Dutch is /not/ a language for a cool cyberpunk game :). And when a
session is an hour on the way, we occasionally hold complete
conversations in English/city-speak. I start it by letting one of the
NPC's say something like "Howdie, chummers, whats yer doing here?"
and they reply in pseudo-slang-English, which is kinda fun.

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net / bdi05626@***.rhij.nl)
Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in
your home. -- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
Geek Code v3.0:
GLS d-(+) s+:+ a?(26) C+(++) U P? L? E? W+ N++ K? w+ O- M- V? PS+
PE- Y+ PGP t+(--) 5? X++ R+(++) tv b+++ DI? D++ G+ e++ h+(!) r y+
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:07:37 +0200
>That sounds familiar :) Lately I've switched to reading it out in
>English completely

That sucks. A few years ago I had an **&* DM who did the same, too bad his
English wasn't very good (I couldn't stop myself correcting his
pronunciation when it was just _too_ bad :), but you really get a distracted
feel from the whole adventure. I think that if the GM translates it, even if
that means searching for the occassional word, you get a much better idea of
what's going on, of actually being there...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
people who are experts at avoiding reality
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 14
From: Magnus 'Gizmo' Bergqvist <NDB123@***.SHV.HB.SE>
Subject: Re: Language Barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:41:34 MET-1MEST
> >Much more fun to go the other way: Kult, Drakar och demoner, Mutant
> >chronichles. :)
>
> Drakar och demoner? So that's not a Swedish translation of D&D? (I'd
> encountered the name in the mortuary, but thought it was just Swedish D&D...)
The Swedish D&D is still called D&D, but they have translated the
rules, and a glorious amount of 3 adventures.... :)

As for Drakar och Demoner, being a Swedish version of D&D, Nope. the
first edition were very much influenced by Runequest though, but then
they have developed newer, better editions by themselves. (ok the
newest are not that good, since they have gone back to som e of the
things in first edition).


*************************
* Wake up, time to die! *
*************************

Further Reading

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