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Message no. 1
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:53:32 -0500
Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from Zurich.
What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might he
be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
wondering what else they might have.

Thanks for the time and effort.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 2
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:15:51 +0000
> Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from Zurich.
> What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might he
> be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
> Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
> wondering what else they might have.

German, French, Italian and English. I am not Swizz but I guess I am
one of the Euro-types so I take it upon myself to answer this :)

/Stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 3
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:34:59 +0200
And so it came to happen that Texas 2-Step wrote:
----------

> Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from
Zurich.
> What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might
he
> be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
> Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
> wondering what else they might have.

Swiz: Federation of two innerpolitical independant states that are build
up out of partautonomuos Kantons. The frenchspeaking is the
"Confédération
Suisse Francophone (CSF) and is situated in the western part of the old
swizboundaries with the Capitalcity beeing Genf.
The germanspeaking is the "Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft" (SEg) which
takes about the rest, the capital is Bern. There is Capital for the whole
Federation.
Languages are intermixed, French/German on the boundaries to the two
states, mixed a bit with italian in the southern parts. The lingo is more
or less bad to understand for other german/french citizens, but it is
duable. The dialect that is mostly spoken in both parts (varies from Kanton
to Kanton, the "districts") can't to be said as "a" lingo, its more a
mixing of the old suiz/german and french plus italian. There is no actual
name for it. But here are some Quotes for you to throw over (but get your
german dictionary for _exact_ spelling ;o))
:Säg nüt! - Don't you say!
: Gisch mer en Funk? - You're calling me back? (Phone)
: Das isch für d'Füchs! - That is for no sense!
: Butz di! - Frag off!
: Buebe und Meitli - girl and boy
: Chunnsch druus?! - so ka? You got THAT?

Just for that part the SEg is more or less antigoblinoid, the CSF isn't
(see it like UCAS and CAS).

Allright thats for that, its all taken out of the only germany in the
shadows sourcebook I happen to have, "Chrom und Dioxin". It's all made up
from the boys of FanPro (german producer, ah bad word, no dictionaire) in
1996.
Did not wan't to break any Copyrights, if so, I am sorry ;o)

Go for Suisse!

> Thanks for the time and effort.

No prob on that.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve
Message no. 4
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:46:10 +0100
And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from Zurich.
|What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might he
|be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
|Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
|wondering what else they might have.

Well... English is the obvious one, but apart from that, I don't think any
more would be common.

(You'll always have a few people speaking Spanish, Japanese, Swedish or
whatever, but the Majority of the population in any country have problems
with 2 languages, let alone 3 or 4....)

I know I have problems with 2.... :)

[My other language is 'C']
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 5
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:05:22 -0500
----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
>
> Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from
Zurich.
> What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages
might he
> be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
> Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
> wondering what else they might have.

German, French, Italian, and Romanisch, in about that order.
Message no. 6
From: "Dr. Faust" <apocrytha@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:48:40 -0500
Spike wrote:

> And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from Zurich.
> |What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might he
> |be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
> |Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
> |wondering what else they might have.
>
> Well... English is the obvious one, but apart from that, I don't think any
> more would be common.
>
> (You'll always have a few people speaking Spanish, Japanese, Swedish or
> whatever, but the Majority of the population in any country have problems
> with 2 languages, let alone 3 or 4....)
>
> I know I have problems with 2.... :)
>
> [My other language is 'C']
> :)
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
> | | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
> | Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
> | Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
> | Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
> |5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

The majority speaks German altho there are some that speak Italian. English is a
widly spoken language there just because its sort of become the 'Universal
Language'. But thats really only spoken by businessmen and what not.

--
"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."
Message no. 7
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:23:48 +0000
and thus did Nexx speak on 20 Sep 98 at 9:05:

> German, French, Italian, and Romanisch, in about that order.

And Nexx is the winner!! *wild applause*

German (with a heavy accent though) in most parts, French in the
Western bits (Jura, Lake Geneva, and up to Zermatt westwards again),
Italian in a few areas close to the border with Italy, specially
around the lakes, and Retro-Romanish (which is a mix of Latin,
Italian, French and some more bits) in a few small areas in the South
West.

Martin,
(who's been there around ten years in a row on holidays)
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:24:12 -0500
----------
> From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
>
> > German, French, Italian, and Romanisch, in about that order.
>
> And Nexx is the winner!! *wild applause*

::bows:: Too bad we can't show this to Frau Mueller, and get her to kick
up my grade in German last semester from a D <g>

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
I am a rovin' sportin' blade
they call me Jack of all Trades
I always found my chief delight
in courting pretty fair maids.
-"The Dublin Jack of All Trades"
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:50:51 -0400
At 05:53 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Possibly easy question for you European types. I've got an NPC from Zurich.
>What's the predominant language in Zurich, and what other languages might he
>be proficient in? I know, sitting where they do, that lots of places in
>Switzerland speak either German or French (sometimes both), but I'm
>wondering what else they might have.

Others have also answered this question, but haven't mentioned a key element.

The Swiss have varying dialects within their own small country, based
partially upon where they are located (in relation to other countries) and
the level of isolation this fairly mountainous nation engenders.

End result is that Swiss German is a very different animal than High
German, or even Bavarian German. Spellings and pronunciations are
different. You can reasonably expect a German from the North and the South
to understand each other, despite the obvious dialect differences. Swiss
German isn't a "gimme."

You know the show "King of the Hill" on Fox? You know that guy who always
sort of mumbles and talks in low-key run-on sentences? You know how hard
he is to understand? Okay, that's a little illustrative of how hard it is
for a normal German to understand Swiss German. It can be done, but it's
difficult and requires thought and attention on the listeners part. And
not everyone can do it.

I don't know about Swiss Italian or Swiss French, but I'd imagine they'd
have some odd idioms and pronunciations also.

Don't know if this is important to you Patrick, but hey, FYI.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 10
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:00:21 -0500
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 12:51 PM

>End result is that Swiss German is a very different animal than High
>German, or even Bavarian German. Spellings and pronunciations are
>different. You can reasonably expect a German from the North and the South
>to understand each other, despite the obvious dialect differences. Swiss
>German isn't a "gimme."

So it would not be unthinkable that a langugage skill list could include
both Swiss German and German, at different ratings (as a for-instance)? One
possibly acting as a complementary skill for the other?

>Don't know if this is important to you Patrick, but hey, FYI.

You never know when it might play a part. Thanks for the heads-up.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 11
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:22:05 -0400
At 06:00 PM 9/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

>>End result is that Swiss German is a very different animal than High
>>German, or even Bavarian German. Spellings and pronunciations are
>>different. You can reasonably expect a German from the North and the South
>>to understand each other, despite the obvious dialect differences. Swiss
>>German isn't a "gimme."
>
>So it would not be unthinkable that a langugage skill list could include
>both Swiss German and German, at different ratings (as a for-instance)? One
>possibly acting as a complementary skill for the other?

It would be more like a Specialization perhaps. The two groups, with a
reasonable amount of effort, can understand each other most of the time.
Make a +2 or +4 modifier to any Language tests. But it could be a
Specialization (or at least treated that way).

>>Don't know if this is important to you Patrick, but hey, FYI.
>
>You never know when it might play a part. Thanks for the heads-up.

I wouldn't know myself, except for one day in particular back at the
university. Had a "guest teacher" for the day (no, not a sub, the normal
teacher was there too) that I think was American, but had spent like six
years in Switzerland speaking Swiss German.

She started speaking and all of us second year German students just looked
at her as if she was speaking ancient Slavic or something. Once she
started speaking slowly and repeating herself, we were able to catch what
she was saying. The main part of it was, as I recall, some very odd (to
our ears) pronunciations. You'd have the same word, spelled identically,
and it would be pronounced very different. We're not talking
tomato/tomatoe, we're talking Dave/Dude.

Glad to be of service.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 12
From: Evans Tania-Ann <Tania-Ann.Evans@****.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:47:45 +0200
>Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:34:59 +0200
>Reply-to: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
>From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
>Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
>To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET

20 Sep, 1.34 Steadfast wrote

> Swiz: Federation of two innerpolitical independant states that are build
>up out of partautonomuos Kantons. The frenchspeaking is the "Confédér=
ation
>Suisse Francophone (CSF) and is situated in the western part of the old
>swizboundaries with the Capitalcity beeing Genf.
>The germanspeaking is the "Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft" (SEg) which
>takes about the rest, the capital is Bern. There is Capital for the whole
>Federation.
>Languages are intermixed, French/German on the boundaries to the two
>states, mixed a bit with italian in the southern parts.
(snipped)

very nice and useful summary - BTW what happened to the other Swiss
language, (Rätoromanisch), probably Raeto-Romanic? I don't own Chrome
and Dioxine, so I don't know. Is it still around?
If it is - and I don't know - it would be spoken by only very few
people in the southern cantons. It is not a dialect, but a romanic
language in its own right.

Tania
Message no. 13
From: Peter Mikulsky <petermikulsky@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:56:21 +0200
Hi Tania

after a look in Chrome & Dioxin I would say the Rätoromanisch is still
around. FanPro mentioned that 2% other languages in the CSF and SEg exist
but they didn't make a detailed list about this languages - why should they
have ;-)
I hope this infomation could be helpful to you.

-Archangel
Message no. 14
From: Evans Tania-Ann <Tania-Ann.Evans@****.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Languages in Switzerland
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:10:12 +0200
>Hi Tania
>
>after a look in Chrome & Dioxin I would say the Rätoromanisch is still
>around. FanPro mentioned that 2% other languages in the CSF and SEg exis=
t
>but they didn't make a detailed list about this languages - why should th=
ey
>have ;-)
>I hope this infomation could be helpful to you.
>
>-Archangel

Thanks a lot ! This could be very useful indeed...

Tania
Tania-Ann.Evans@****.uni-regensburg.de

Am Protzenweiher 19c
93059 Regensburg

Further Reading

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