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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:08:39 -0700
Dvixen wrote:
|
| Who out there has changed the skill web (specifically) languages?

I'm not sure if this applies, but I've made some changes to
the SR language rules.

BTW, this is one of those rules that I can't remember the
differences between my house rules and the BB rules.

<house rule>
A Language skill is treated as a specialized skill.
Relationships to other languages doesn't help a character
to understand those languages (you either know a language
or you don't). And I use the following as a guide: with a
skill of 1-2 a character can communicate and understand
basic information (where's the toilet?), 3-4 can carry on
basic conversation, 5 can carry on a conversation but has
an accent, 6 native, 7+ can carry on complex conversations
(philosophy, religion, etc).
</house rule>

I think I'm going to start using a house rule that a
character can't have a language skill higher than his
Intelligence, and that his native skill equals his
Intelligene +1.

Also, if you've got a low skill and your trying to
communicate with some who also has a low skill... things
quickly go downhill from there unless you're both really
patient.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:17:18 +1100
> <house rule>
> A Language skill is treated as a specialized skill.
> Relationships to other languages doesn't help a character
> to understand those languages (you either know a language
> or you don't). And I use the following as a guide: with a

I like the rest of your house rule, but I'd disagree with this. Back in
the days when i was fluent in Italian, I could understand most Spanish
without a problem, and a fair bit of French if I thought about it. there
*are* relationships between languages that should help you understand a
related language.

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:25:38 -0500
At 02:17 PM 1/29/97 +1100, Lady Jestyr babbled:
>> <house rule>
>> A Language skill is treated as a specialized skill.
>> Relationships to other languages doesn't help a character
>> to understand those languages (you either know a language
>> or you don't). And I use the following as a guide: with a
>
>I like the rest of your house rule, but I'd disagree with this. Back in
>the days when i was fluent in Italian, I could understand most Spanish
>without a problem, and a fair bit of French if I thought about it. there
>*are* relationships between languages that should help you understand a
>related language.
>
>Lady Jestyr
>
I agree with ya Lady J, but I can see why he might choose to use this house
rule as is...

I took Four years of Latin in High School (For all the good it did me), and
because of this I could understand some Italian (Ok, a lot of Italian),
French, and Spanish, but this was because Latin was the root language of
all these...

If you want to start adding in modifiers for "common" languages, you're
going to need to have some knowledge of these different languages in RL to
use this, and let's face it, most of us don't know any other languages, or
smatterings of one other (There are exceptions, but this is not the rule).

I myself like clean, easy to use rules... I rarely even mess with too many
modifiers because it makes the game go too slow, so I never bother with
Language modifiers and the like... It boils down to "Do you know the
language or not." If you don't have a skill in that language, you're out
of luck.. Unless, of course, it's a VERY common phrase from another
language... I know almost no Spanish (Ok, I can count to ten, but...), but
I can recognize and understand certain common phrases....

I rambling... I'll shut up now...

Bull-the-back-in-the-box-ork-decekr
--
Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 1 week till Star Wars!
Message no. 4
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:00:27 -0500
>the days when i was fluent in Italian, I could understand most Spanish
>without a problem, and a fair bit of French if I thought about it. there
>*are* relationships between languages that should help you understand a
>related language.

True. Those three in particular are VERY related.

-=SwiftOne=-
(engaged to a fluent speaker of French, who is from an Italian family)
Message no. 5
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:13:51 -0800
*snip* (Latin being root of French, Spanish and Italian, true)

> If you want to start adding in modifiers for "common" languages, you're
> going to need to have some knowledge of these different languages in RL
to
> use this, and let's face it, most of us don't know any other languages,
or
> smatterings of one other (There are exceptions, but this is not the
rule).

I know enough smatterings of languages to know that some languages are
easier to understand with knowledge of a related language than with
others.

A speaker of Scottish Gaelic can understand fairly easily (some
concentration, but the words are similar enough), what a speaker of Irish
is saying, (and don't confuse Scottish Gaelic with Scots, a dialect of
English) but has a *lot* of difficulty with Welsh.

With that in mind, a GM couldn't say it's a +4 (or whatever) modifier to
try and decipher that other language, 'cause it isn't that easy.

Hey Gurth, how easy would you be able to understand Sascha, if you didn't
speak German, and he didn't speak Dutch? (and vv) And how easy is it for
you two to understand Norweigan, Swedish, or Flemish? (all on the SR
Germanic language family subsection.)

> I myself like clean, easy to use rules... I rarely even mess with too
many
> modifiers because it makes the game go too slow, so I never bother with
> Language modifiers and the like... It boils down to "Do you know the
> language or not." If you don't have a skill in that language, you're
out
> of luck.. Unless, of course, it's a VERY common phrase from another
> language... I know almost no Spanish (Ok, I can count to ten, but...),
but
> I can recognize and understand certain common phrases....

I have no argument with what you and Lady J have stated, just the way the
families are set out in the Rule book. Languages get used an awful *lot*
in our game, mostly because it's what I've studied, and the GM and another
player share my fascination (to a lesser extent, I fear) for languages.

Even with numerous linguistics texts to help, I still haven't found a
satisfactory house rule or even a chart to use as a vague guide... I'm
not starting. This is ShadowRN, not a linguistics discussion list.

(Later!)
--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
Bull said on 22:25/28 Jan 97...

> If you want to start adding in modifiers for "common" languages, you're
> going to need to have some knowledge of these different languages in RL to
> use this, and let's face it, most of us don't know any other languages, or
> smatterings of one other (There are exceptions, but this is not the rule).

Another thing that complicates this is that in some countries, foreign
languages are hard to find, and in others they're everywhere. Americans
are a prime example, but so are the German toursist that flood my town
every year -- I'd guess that at least 90% of the people here speak German
to some degree or other, but you'd be lucky to find 1% of the tourists
speaking even a little bit of Dutch.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
David Buehrer said on 20:08/28 Jan 97...

> <house rule>
> A Language skill is treated as a specialized skill.

That's not a house rule.

> Relationships to other languages doesn't help a character to understand
> those languages (you either know a language or you don't).

Here I disagree. Languages are obviously related to each other, and if
you speak one from a "family" you can learn others from that family
easier than those from another language family -- I found French hard to
learn because it's not a Germanic language, and so does things a lot
differently than the language I grew up speaking (Dutch). German, OTOH,
is pretty similar to Dutch and poses a lot less problems for me.
In the same way, someone speaking German would IMO be able to understand
at least something of what somebody speaking only Dutch is trying to get
across, but if either of them only knows French, the conversation would
get much more difficult.

> And I use the following as a guide: with a skill of 1-2 a character can
> communicate and understand basic information (where's the toilet?), 3-4
> can carry on basic conversation, 5 can carry on a conversation but has an
> accent, 6 native, 7+ can carry on complex conversations (philosophy,
> religion, etc).

That sounds good, though you could also use the TNs that SRII gives for
these things, and let them roll against these. It could be a bit
unrealistic if someone with Japanese 1 gets his intricate beliefs on
religion and ethics across, though :)

> Also, if you've got a low skill and your trying to communicate with some
> who also has a low skill... things quickly go downhill from there unless
> you're both really patient.

You can always play charades :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
Dvixen said on 0:13/29 Jan 97...

> Hey Gurth, how easy would you be able to understand Sascha, if you didn't
> speak German, and he didn't speak Dutch? (and vv)

Not too hard, if we would be trying to get things across that is. I could
try to pick words that are similar to German ones, for example, although
that of course requires at least a little bit of knowledge of the
language. (I do speak German, though, so there'd only be a problem when I
get those forms of "the" wrong :)

Maybe we could do a test (that would count as off-topic, I think) or
something...

> And how easy is it for you two to understand Norweigan, Swedish, or

I'm not sure about Swedish and Norwegian (I haven't heard them much), but
I find Danish very hard to understand when I hear it, but sort of
comprehensible when it's written down. (This reminds me of the time I
bought something in a Danish store, the girl behind the counter said
something to me that I assumed was the price, I gave her the money, and
said "alsjeblieft"... This probably isn't funny unless you speak Dutch :)

> Flemish?

Let's get one thing straight: Flemish IS Dutch. Most English-speakers
seem to get the idea that the two are separate languages, but the
differences are about the same as between British English and American
English: slightly different pronunciation and a few different
expressions, but that's it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:43:38 -0500
Dvixen wrote,
>Even with numerous linguistics texts to help, I still haven't found a
>satisfactory house rule or even a chart to use as a vague guide... I'm
>not starting. This is ShadowRN, not a linguistics discussion list.

The Champions rulebook there is a chart for how closely languages
are related. See if you can find a copy of this and if it will provide a
good basis for language inter-relations. If you can't get your hands on
one I'll create a .jpg for you to use. Let me know.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:49:11 GMT
Gurth writes
>
> > Flemish?
>
> Let's get one thing straight: Flemish IS Dutch. Most English-speakers
> seem to get the idea that the two are separate languages, but the
> differences are about the same as between British English and American
> English: slightly different pronunciation and a few different
> expressions, but that's it.
>
Ah but! sometimes it seems that folks from continental Europe speak
better (British) English than do Americans on this list! (American
'English' has drifted a long way already, languages evolve and that
has not stopped, and as if anyone thinks they can tell the Americans
'you should speak your language this way' anyway, well do you really
see then getting far....same with anyone else).

The fact that many languages have different names for other peoples
languages to thier own really does not help any. When person from
country 'A' says country 'B' speaks language 'C' but natives of 'B'
call thier language 'D'.
Is it suprising folks get it wrong (not that its an excuse but)

Mark
Message no. 11
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:41:02 EST
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:00:27 -0500 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>the days when i was fluent in Italian, I could understand most
>Spanish
>>without a problem, and a fair bit of French if I thought about it.
>there
>>*are* relationships between languages that should help you understand
>a
>>related language.
>
>True. Those three in particular are VERY related.

Portuguese, from what I can tell, is rather closely related to them as
well, but not as closely as Spanish or French.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 12
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:25:41 +0100
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100, Gurth wrote:

>> Relationships to other languages doesn't help a character to understand
>> those languages (you either know a language or you don't).
>
>Here I disagree. Languages are obviously related to each other, and if
>you speak one from a "family" you can learn others from that family
>easier than those from another language family -- I found French hard to

Not quite the point, IMHO. Learning a related language is easier, of
course. But understanding without having learnt will not be possible
this easy.

>learn because it's not a Germanic language, and so does things a lot
>differently than the language I grew up speaking (Dutch). German, OTOH,
>is pretty similar to Dutch and poses a lot less problems for me.
>In the same way, someone speaking German would IMO be able to understand
>at least something of what somebody speaking only Dutch is trying to get

Yeah, this I can confirm. My grandfather was dutch, so I've got a
part of my family speaking Dutch, and it is possible to understand
... a little.

>across, but if either of them only knows French, the conversation would
>get much more difficult.

If not impossible, using only words. Communicating using a third language,
that both people know, or/and using hands, feet, faces etc. would make
it possible, of course.

-- Arno
Message no. 13
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:19:49 +0100
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100, Gurth wrote:

>Bull said on 22:25/28 Jan 97...
>
>> If you want to start adding in modifiers for "common" languages, you're
>> going to need to have some knowledge of these different languages in RL to
>> use this, and let's face it, most of us don't know any other languages, or
>> smatterings of one other (There are exceptions, but this is not the rule).
>
>Another thing that complicates this is that in some countries, foreign
>languages are hard to find, and in others they're everywhere. Americans
>are a prime example, but so are the German toursist that flood my town
>every year -- I'd guess that at least 90% of the people here speak German
>to some degree or other, but you'd be lucky to find 1% of the tourists
>speaking even a little bit of Dutch.
>
Hm, sorry to admit I do not speak Dutch (I'm german) ... but then, Dutch
is not so very important (of course to you it is, but I hope you
understand me) a language as English. In Europe, German, French, English
are spoken by the biggest parts of the population (AFAIK), in the world
English is the most important, although not spoken by the most people.
So it's not amazing that most people learn English (in the world) or
German, French, English (in Europe).
Now, back to SR.
It's not amazing that most people (in Seattle) speak English, even the
foreigners would. On the contrary, native Seattlites (???) need not
learn another language. The others do know English, so why bother?
Just like in RL, after all (I use English, or sort of, I hope, you use
that language, I could use French, and most of the US-folks don't
need a foreign language).
That explains et least, why language skills are relatively unimportant
in all-day SRing ... A special interest like Dvixens (I think) is
surely rather seldom.

-- Arno
Message no. 14
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@[158.42.9.19]>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:47:21 +0000
David wrote:
[snip interesting house rule]
> I think I'm going to start using a house rule that a
> character can't have a language skill higher than his
> Intelligence, and that his native skill equals his
> Intelligene +1.
>

I'm not sure where I've read it, but I thought your native language
was at Int+2 somewhere in the rules (may be I'm confused with SRI and
SRII in this?)

[snip the rest]

--
Monde
Message no. 15
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:33:13 +0100
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100, Gurth wrote:
<snip>
> (I do speak German, though, so there'd only be a problem when I
>get those forms of "the" wrong :)

This would be a minor problem ...

>Maybe we could do a test (that would count as off-topic, I think) or
>something...

Let's make that test with written language ... :)

<snap>
>(This reminds me of the time I
>bought something in a Danish store, the girl behind the counter said
>something to me that I assumed was the price, I gave her the money, and
>said "alsjeblieft"... This probably isn't funny unless you speak Dutch :)

It is funny ... althoug I do not speak Dutch (But German, to which Duch
_is_ surely closely related)

<snap>
-- Arno
Message no. 16
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@[158.42.9.19]>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:55:02 +0000
Lady J. wrote:
> I like the rest of your house rule, but I'd disagree with this. Back in
> the days when i was fluent in Italian, I could understand most Spanish
> without a problem, and a fair bit of French if I thought about it. there
> *are* relationships between languages that should help you understand a
> related language.
>
> Lady Jestyr

Well, being Spanish since I was born [:)], I kinda agree with the
Italian thing, but I can't understand but some French words (and I
speak Valenciano, that you can see as Catalan in the SR skillweb,
well, somewhat related. The thing is that it is supposed to derive
from the same latin variant (Occitano), but I am still unable to
communicate with french people unless they speak Spanish or English).

--
Monde-the-Spanish-GM-:)
Message no. 17
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:19:35 -0500
> The Champions rulebook there is a chart for how closely languages
>are related. See if you can find a copy of this and if it will provide a
>good basis for language inter-relations. If you can't get your hands on
>one I'll create a .jpg for you to use. Let me know.

Sounds good to me. I'd like a copy myself if you don't mind.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is it in the "mysterious employer credo" that these little rendezvous always
have to be in exotic locales.

I mean just once wouldn't you like to sit down at a Denny's and plan
an assassination over a French Slam Breakfest?

"Deadpool #1"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 18
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:38:49 -0500
L Canthros wrote,
>Portuguese, from what I can tell, is rather closely related to them as
>well, but not as closely as Spanish or French.

Portuguese is very close to Spanish. If you're fluent in one you
have a fair chance to understand the other. Those two languages are just
far enough apart to be considered seperate languages and not dialects.

- MC23, one-quarter Portuguese -
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:25:53 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 8:49/30 Jan 97...

> Gurth writes
> > Flemish IS Dutch.
> >
> Ah but! sometimes it seems that folks from continental Europe speak
> better (British) English than do Americans on this list!

I noticed that too :)

> (American 'English' has drifted a long way already, languages evolve and
> that has not stopped

That has to do with the great distance between the US and the UK, whereas
Belgium (where they speak "Flemish") is maybe 30 km away from where I
live. With a distance like that, there won't be much going in different
directions, which you do get if there's a whole ocean between the areas
where a language is spoken.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Easy to swallow if you can hold down a wad of manic raving by a
possessed psychotic one pill short of a medicated load.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:25:53 +0100
Arno R. Lehmann said on 4:33/30 Jan 97...

> > (I do speak German, though, so there'd only be a problem when I
> >get those forms of "the" wrong :)
>
> This would be a minor problem ...

It was, yeah. Whenever I got weird looks I just went "der des dem den
die der der die..." and they got the message :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Easy to swallow if you can hold down a wad of manic raving by a
possessed psychotic one pill short of a medicated load.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 21
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:42:33 +0100
This went to me personally, I hope it's okay to post it ... it read
like it should go to the list.
Be careful with my reply-to-address ... it's not fixed yet (I will put
this in my .sig)

On Fri, 31 Jan 97 20:11:28 -0500, MC23 wrote:

>Arno R. Lehmann,
>>Now, back to SR.
>>It's not amazing that most people (in Seattle) speak English, even the
>>foreigners would. On the contrary, native Seattlites (???) need not
>>learn another language. The others do know English, so why bother?
>>Just like in RL, after all (I use English, or sort of, I hope, you use
>>that language, I could use French, and most of the US-folks don't
>>need a foreign language).
>
> It all depends on where in the North America area the game is set.
>Some areas have enough minority culture to warrant bilingaul characters.

agreed

>My character Waif (who is in a campaign set in New Orleans) speaks
>English (native), French (secondary, he was born in the French Quarter),
>and also has a passing with cityspeak, Patious (that Cajun dialect) and
>Japanese (from pasty dealings with the Yakuza).
>
>>That explains et least, why language skills are relatively unimportant
>>in all-day SRing ... A special interest like Dvixens (I think) is
>>surely rather seldom.
>
> I use it in my games but I also losely adapt rating levels as
>fluency levels so I can determine the degree of information that can be

Hm, thats one point, I think. In fact, after thinking about the
languages section in the book, I noted that the rules in fact seem
much too mechanical to reflect real languages. Here I agree now more
than before with Dvixen (I think).
Short: if you (the player/GN) kow anything about the languages in
question, you do good when changing the rules.

>given without a die roll. A good Shadowrunner would want to learn
>Japanese when dealing with the Yakuza or the Japanese corps to make a
>better impression with their dealings with them. Even wageslaves in
>Japanese corps try to learn the language (Japanese) since it is a company
>"power language." A lot of the cyberpunk feel is the "small world"
effect
>of a lot of different languages all interacting on a regular basis. In
>the age of communication and beyond it becomes harder to mantain an
>isolationist veiw on languages even for us Americans.

Nice to read. I hope we will soon communicate in german, dutch, swedish
or anything else ;)

>
>- MC23, who has only dabbled in a few languages -
>
Message no. 22
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Language Skills
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:20:37 +0100
On Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:25:53 +0100, Gurth wrote:

>Arno R. Lehmann said on 4:33/30 Jan 97...
>
>> > (I do speak German, though, so there'd only be a problem when I
>> >get those forms of "the" wrong :)
>>
>> This would be a minor problem ...
>
>It was, yeah. Whenever I got weird looks I just went "der des dem den
>die der der die..." and they got the message :)
>
ROTFL ... sorry for all of you who don't speak German!

--
Arno
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Further Reading

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