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Message no. 1
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: RE: Laser(sort of) weapons
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:22:44 -0500 (CDT)
> > >What about the Laser Crescent Axe? It's a melee weapon, yet
> > >it's a welding laser that's doing the actual damage...
Oh, so that's what the deal was...
I never understood the whole 'high tech...' deal before.

> Huh? The Ares MP-III only does M...

Speaking of, what did they do with it in S2, in the original, it was
almost impossible to stage up or down...

> > The Laser Crescent axe is an overweight, flashy axe for poseurs. The
> > damage is done by the blade, not the laser.
>
> OK, so the weapon sucks. However, since there *is* no blade
> (only "a crescent shaped mounting"), the laser must be doing
> the damage.

don't user's strength figure into SS1/2 damage code?,
that was why I couldn't figure out what the laser was for.

> The question is how does this affect a spirit, since the solid
> part of the weapon should never actually come into contact with
> the spirit, and yet it is a melee weapon (ie not ranged), and
> so according to the rules carries the full force of the user's
> will.

Um, it should hit them if strength is part of the damage code...

> So I guess the real question is: at what point does laser
> damage cease to carry the wielder's full will?
Oh, this wasn't about laser sights on guns counting full?

Um, MP III would follow gun rules (it's a gun)
crescent axe would follow melee rules (it's an axe)
right?
Message no. 2
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <ojastej@******.sid.ncr.doe.ca>
Subject: RE: Laser(sort of) weapons
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 96 16:06:00 PDT
[speaking of the Ares MP-III]
> Speaking of, what did they do with it in S2, in the original, it was
> almost impossible to stage up or down...

It's the same staging rules (both for the original Ares MP and
the new Ares MP-III) as everything else (every 2 net successes).

> > OK, so the weapon sucks. However, since there *is* no blade
> > (only "a crescent shaped mounting"), the laser must be doing
> > the damage.
> don't user's strength figure into SS1/2 damage code?,
> that was why I couldn't figure out what the laser was for.

The Laser Crescent Axe does (str)S. I think that it's quite
braindead to be based on strength, but SSC2 says that the
crescent "keeps the weapon from snagging, and the laser
ensures that there's nothing left to snag on".

> > The question is how does this affect a spirit, since the solid
> > part of the weapon should never actually come into contact with
> > the spirit, and yet it is a melee weapon (ie not ranged), and
> > so according to the rules carries the full force of the user's
> > will.
>
> Um, it should hit them if strength is part of the damage code...

Oh, yeah, the weapon will hit the spirit, but with a non-
damaging part, and the laser will already have hit the
target. At this point, how much damage should the weapon
do? If it's just the crecent, then (str)M stun seems more
appropriate (just like a big club). If the laser does damage,
then is the attack penalized (as for a ranged attack)?

> > So I guess the real question is: at what point does laser
> > damage cease to carry the wielder's full will?
> Oh, this wasn't about laser sights on guns counting full?
>
> Um, MP III would follow gun rules (it's a gun)
> crescent axe would follow melee rules (it's an axe)
> right?

By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks
are penalized because they don't carry the full weight/"charge"
of the attacker's will (SR2, 142 & 219).

So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?

* Is it range?
Apparently not - the reach of the weapon doesn't seem to matter,
and projectile weapons aren't affected.

* Is it connectedness (ie making a physical connection between
the spirit and the attacker)?
No, because bows (except crossbows) and thrown weapons aren't
affected.

OK, so it's some other factor. However, Will isn't the only
factor, as a Cougar Fineblade will still do (str/str+1)M and
a knife will only do (str)L.

The most likely possibility:
* Is it because something else is propelling the object?
When you pull the trigger, the propellant in a gun explodes -
it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger, the ammo will fire
just the same. When you fire a crossbow, a series of levers
and cogs releases the string, which propels the bolt.

So, it seems as though having something other than yourself
directly propel the projectile causes a will-loss. On the
other hand, regular bows are not affected, and light isn't
"propelled", there's just a lot of it in a combat laser.

This is getting kind of long, so I'll stop here, but you
get the idea.

James

--
I can't be bothered to think up a generally witty comment right now, so
if you'll just leave your sense of humour at the tone...
Message no. 3
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: RE: Laser(sort of) weapons
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:15:57 -0500
James wrote:
>By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
>*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks are penalized
> because they don't carry the full weight/"charge" of the attacker's will
(SR2, 142
> & 219).
>So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?

IMHO it is a side effect of how astral space works. In our collective
unconsciousness, a man attacking close in and personal, with a melee weapon,
is symbolically stronger than a man shooting a gun. If you don't beleive me, look
at movie endings. Good guys and bad guys shoot at each other for two hours,
but in the end, it all boils down to melee or better yet unarmed combat. In my SR
universe at least, Jung was right. Spirits get damaged better by melee attacks
because the symbolism of a man with a sword is more powerful than the
symbolism of a man with a gun.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 4
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: RE: Laser(sort of) weapons
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:21:07 GMT + 2:00
@ James wrote:
@ >By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
@ >*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks are penaliz
@ ed
@ > because they don't carry the full weight/"charge" of the attacker's will
(S
@ R2, 142
@ > & 219).
@ >So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?
@
@ IMHO it is a side effect of how astral space works. In our collective
@ unconsciousness, a man attacking close in and personal, with a melee weapon,
@ is symbolically stronger than a man shooting a gun. If you don't beleive me,
@ look
@ at movie endings. Good guys and bad guys shoot at each other for two hours,
@ but in the end, it all boils down to melee or better yet unarmed combat. In
@ my SR
@ universe at least, Jung was right. Spirits get damaged better by melee attac
@ ks
@ because the symbolism of a man with a sword is more powerful than the
@ symbolism of a man with a gun.

I would have to agree with you there. However it could also be
the nature of the weapon. Items such as crossbows, guns etc 'store'
(for want of a better word) their energy and release it at a later
time. Bows, thrown weapons and melee weapons use their energy
imparted to them almost immediately. In other words, a person
weilding a sword is expending physical energy immidiately in the use
of the weapon.

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 5
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Laser(sort of) weapons
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 10:06:14 EST
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: Laser(sort of) weapons
Author: shadowrn@********.itribe.net at Internet
Date: 19-7-96 22:17


James wrote:
>By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
>*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks are penalized
> because they don't carry the full weight/"charge" of the attacker's will
(SR2,
142
> & 219).
>So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?

IMHO it is a side effect of how astral space works. In our collective
unconsciousness, a man attacking close in and personal, with a melee weapon,
is symbolically stronger than a man shooting a gun. If you don't beleive me,
look
at movie endings. Good guys and bad guys shoot at each other for two hours,
but in the end, it all boils down to melee or better yet unarmed combat. In my
SR
universe at least, Jung was right. Spirits get damaged better by melee attacks
because the symbolism of a man with a sword is more powerful than the
symbolism of a man with a gun.

Double-Domed Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Then why do melee weapons work better than hand to hand vs spirits?

BTW: Do the awakenings rules mean that my character's nice monowhip
will now only do -normal whip- damage vs spirits?
F.

Further Reading

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