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Message no. 1
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: Laser Weapons
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:04:25 -0800
Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
left abstract?

Scott
==

"If you can't win, don't join them;
learn how to lose."
-Walt Kelly

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Message no. 2
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:08:16 -0600
On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:04:25 -0800 Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
writes:
> Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
>exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
>constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
>they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
>left abstract?

We have to wait for Cannon Companion ... there are no Lasers in the BBB3
:/

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

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Message no. 3
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:27:57 -0800
> Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
> exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
> constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
> they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
> left abstract?

Some like it abstract. I guess they never really tell you, but my group
uses them as a constant beam that you can effectively sweep across a room
with it. They're not very deadly for a person with low skill though. Like
if an attacker rolls 1 success, it does base (15M for the Ares MP) damage,
so even if you roll no defensive successes, you still take only M damage. I
never liked that, but I live with it.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:12:20 +0100
According to D. Ghost, at 14:08 on 12 Dec 98, the word on
the street was...

> > Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
> >exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
> >constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
> >they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
> >left abstract?
>
> We have to wait for Cannon Companion ... there are no Lasers in the BBB3
> :/

But there are three lasers in other books, which (you seem to be
forgetting) are not obsolete just because SR3 came out.

The answer to the original question, though, is not given anywhere in the
SSC or FoF. I would imagine them being pulse lasers, as these are AFAIK
easier to make and a lot less energy-hungry than continuous-beam lasers.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do you mean, "let it"? How can you stop it?
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Gorbi <gbmaill@***.DE>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:54:48 +0100
Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:

>> > Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
>> >exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
>> >constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
>> >they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
>> >left abstract?


<SNIP Cannon Companion>

>The answer to the original question, though, is not given anywhere in the
>SSC or FoF. I would imagine them being pulse lasers, as these are AFAIK
>easier to make and a lot less energy-hungry than continuous-beam lasers.

See "Choose Your Enemies Carefully": The ork guard turns a pulse laser into
a beam laser.
Question: I don't know anything about lasers but is that possible?

Gorbi
Message no. 6
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:17:38 -0800
---"Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA> wrote:
> > Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but
> > how exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are
> > they a constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and
> > yeah, I know they're semi-automatic class)? Is it
> > a concept better left abstract?
>
> Some like it abstract. I guess they never really tell
> you, but my group uses them as a constant beam that
> you can effectively sweep across a room with it.
> They're not very deadly for a person with low skill
> though. Like if an attacker rolls 1 success, it does
> base (15M for the Ares MP) damage, so even if you
> roll no defensive successes, you still take only M
> damage. I never liked that, but I live with it.

If it was a constant beam, asyou interpret it, I
would consider it a full-auto class weapon, in the
sense that the longer you keep the beam on the target,
the more damage is caused. Of course, recoil wouldn't
be a factor, so that'd make it a very deadly weapon.
Maybe a penalty to the test for the difficulty of
keeping the beam on the same spot could replace the
recoil penalty?
Also, maybe someone who knows anything at all about
current military uses of lasers as weapons could fill
us in on the plausability and mechanics of such a thing
(the laser weapon, that is).

Scott
==

"If you can't win, don't join them;
learn how to lose."
-Walt Kelly

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 7
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:08:52 -0600
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:12:20 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>According to D. Ghost, at 14:08 on 12 Dec 98, the word on
>the street was...
>> > Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
>> >exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
>> >constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
>> >they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
>> >left abstract?

>> We have to wait for Cannon Companion ... there are no Lasers in the
BBB3
>> :/

>But there are three lasers in other books, which (you seem to be
>forgetting) are not obsolete just because SR3 came out.

Actually, I didn't ... I thought (mistakenly) that the original poster
said how did they work in SR*3* ... oops :)

>The answer to the original question, though, is not given anywhere in
the
>SSC or FoF. I would imagine them being pulse lasers, as these are AFAIK
>easier to make and a lot less energy-hungry than continuous-beam lasers.

In the Street Samurai Catalog (2nd Ed), the MP Laser is listed as being a
Pulse laser. Since the MP-III uses peak-discharge batteries too, I'm
guessing that it and the Vehicle Firelance are both Pulse lasers.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Message no. 8
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:11:16 -0800
> If it was a constant beam, asyou interpret it, I
> would consider it a full-auto class weapon, in the
> sense that the longer you keep the beam on the target,
> the more damage is caused. Of course, recoil wouldn't
> be a factor, so that'd make it a very deadly weapon.
> Maybe a penalty to the test for the difficulty of
> keeping the beam on the same spot could replace the
> recoil penalty?
> Also, maybe someone who knows anything at all about
> current military uses of lasers as weapons could fill
> us in on the plausability and mechanics of such a thing
> (the laser weapon, that is).

Maybe I'm also warped because I played Battletech long before SR, and the
lasers there are beam, but they limit the beam's time because of the heat
generated. So, you could use the Ares MP as a full auto-type thing, but the
heat generated would probably melt the gun.
But because the laser shoots perfectly straight, and you can see where it
is, it'd be pretty easy to keep it on target. Unless you were running,
dodging, falling, walking, or moving in any other way shape or form. Just
like don't run with scissors, don't run with a constant beam laser.
Message no. 9
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:40:33 -0600
:>> > Maybe I just missed reading this somewhere, but how
:>> >exactly do the laser weapons in SR work? Are they a
:>> >constant burn, or a pulse, or what (and yeah, I know
:>> >they're semi-automatic class)? Is it a concept better
:>> >left abstract?
:
:
:<SNIP Cannon Companion>
:
:>The answer to the original question, though, is not given anywhere in
the
:>SSC or FoF. I would imagine them being pulse lasers, as these are AFAIK
:>easier to make and a lot less energy-hungry than continuous-beam lasers.
:
:See "Choose Your Enemies Carefully": The ork guard turns a pulse laser
into
:a beam laser.
:Question: I don't know anything about lasers but is that possible?


As far as I know, It is. The problem is, pulse lasers are made as such
because
A) pulse types use capacitors to store up power and then release it-
continuous beam means much higher constant power pull
B) Lasers (well, their components, and power supplies) have a duty cycle;
they can run so long, then have to cool down. Pulsing means you don't
need as much cooling. I know more about power system duty cycles (a
common issue in welding) than those of lasers and cooling systems, but I
assume its similar.

Because of this, a pulse laser is, for its size, bulk, and cost, much more
powerful (during its pulse) than an equivalent continuos beam. Even if
you beefed up the power and cooling, the stress on the components would
mean your converted laser would be less powerful, or less durable, or MUCH
bulkier (not man portable).

For combat use, a portable pulse laser is probably more useful; you can
kill with a short burst, rather than try to get sustained fry on a
shifting target. If you wanted to model a true continuos laser, you'd
need a different type of ranged attack procedure than the current rules.
Gurths "full auto / open test" procedure might do it; instead of having
recoil, the highest number rolled over the TN is how many "extra rounds"
(up to those fired) land on target. This assumes average combat movement
on the part of the target and / or firer. Burning a stationary target
with a sustained beam would be easy.
The big "sweeping beam attacks" people might try with a CB laser would
probably be only superficially effective- at best, you could do
"suppressive fire", I'd say.

Mongoose
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:10:21 -0600
:Some like it abstract. I guess they never really tell you, but my group
:uses them as a constant beam that you can effectively sweep across a room
:with it. They're not very deadly for a person with low skill though. Like
:if an attacker rolls 1 success, it does base (15M for the Ares MP)
damage,
:so even if you roll no defensive successes, you still take only M damage.
I
:never liked that, but I live with it.

For a constant beam, the amount of time the beam falls on the target (and
where) will be the prime determinant of damage. For a pulse, the "on
target" time just needs to be longer than the pulse (usually quite brief)-
aim is the important thing, like all SR ranged combat. Of course, pulse
lasers often cycle through pulses quite rapidly, but seeing as the attack
of the MP lasers is SA (or BF, for the firelance), and those modes affect
ONE target, I'd say they are a pulse / recharge type weapon. If it had
something as brutally powerful as a full-room sweeping attack, I think
FASA would tell us in so many words.

BTW, a nice combat laser accessory might be a optical diffuser; you could
flip it down, and use the laser to flash dazzle a roomful of people. With
a smartgun, that switch might even be a free action. Most combat lasers
should also have a low-power mode that counts as a laser site /
designator, out to its full range.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:55:31 -0600
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:10:21 -0600 Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
writes:
<SNIP>
>Of course, pulse
>lasers often cycle through pulses quite rapidly, but seeing as the
attack
>of the MP lasers is SA (or BF, for the firelance), and those modes
affect
>ONE target, I'd say they are a pulse / recharge type weapon.
<SNIP>

All SR lasers, including the Firelance are SA.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Message no. 12
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:35:45 -0800
> For a constant beam, the amount of time the beam falls on the target (and
> where) will be the prime determinant of damage. For a pulse, the "on
> target" time just needs to be longer than the pulse (usually quite
brief)-
> aim is the important thing, like all SR ranged combat. Of course, pulse
> lasers often cycle through pulses quite rapidly, but seeing as the attack
> of the MP lasers is SA (or BF, for the firelance), and those modes affect
> ONE target, I'd say they are a pulse / recharge type weapon. If it had
> something as brutally powerful as a full-room sweeping attack, I think
> FASA would tell us in so many words.

Probably right, but Battletech and anime from a young age have a lasting
effect. But damage from a constant beam laser, or a portable one at least,
would be fairly minor from just a single sweep unless you can hold it on a
single target for a round or two, maybe 7L or 8L. What I really want is a
minigun class multibarrel laser or a gauss/railgun type weapon. I think I
play Fallout too much.

Hatchetman, GUV
(finally realized I never sign off) ^_^"
Message no. 13
From: Kevin Langevin <kevinl@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:09:37 -0500
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hatchetman, GUV [mailto:hatchet@*********.BC.CA]
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 9:36 PM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Laser Weapons

> What I really want is a minigun class multibarrel laser or a gauss/railgun
type
> weapon. I think I play Fallout too much.
>

Ahhh...a Fallout player...do you have Fallout 2? It's on my Xmas list, so I
haven't played it yet...

-Kev
Message no. 14
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:35:52 -0800
> > What I really want is a minigun class multibarrel laser or a
gauss/railgun
> type
> > weapon. I think I play Fallout too much.
> >
>
> Ahhh...a Fallout player...do you have Fallout 2? It's on my Xmas list,
so I
> haven't played it yet...

You have NO idea. I'm an Unwashed Villager. Dave Hendee wrote a bunch of us
into a random encounter. THAT's how much I play. Scary, neh? I was really
pissed off I couldn't get down to LA for the release party.
I was waiting in the store when the courier came in with the shipment of
them, and when I got there, the guy there said, "It's YOU isn't it? The guy
who's been calling?"
Well, when you get it, go to www.interplay.com/fallout2/ and get the newest
version of the patch. Market pressure was insanely high, so it was released
with some big bugs.

Hatchetman, GUV
Message no. 15
From: Slipspeed <atreloar@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:50:04 +1000
>Ahhh...a Fallout player...do you have Fallout 2? It's on my Xmas list, so
I
>haven't played it yet...


Played it, finished it... Very similar to FO1, with the typical sequel
stuff; ie bigger and better. And buggier. When you get it, get the patch
ASAP.
Message no. 16
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:32:40 -0500
Hatchetman, GUV wrote:
> > For a constant beam, the amount of time the beam falls on the target
> (and
> > where) will be the prime determinant of damage. For a pulse, the "on
> > target" time just needs to be longer than the pulse (usually quite
> brief)-
[snip]
> Probably right, but Battletech and anime from a young age have a lasting
> effect. But damage from a constant beam laser, or a portable one at least,
> would be fairly minor from just a single sweep unless you can hold it on a
> single target for a round or two, maybe 7L or 8L. What I really want is a
> minigun class multibarrel laser or a gauss/railgun type weapon. I think I
> play Fallout too much.
>
I'd suggest having it do something like 4L with a ROF of 20 - use the
normal recoil reduction rules for strength but ignore most hardware to
represent the difficulty of holding it still (iow, keep the tripod &
bipod, maybe the gyro). It'll still end up doing a lot of damage
(especially if mounted) but it'll be tough to keep on target. In this
case, I'd have the target roll a dodge test, TN 5, with every success
adding +1 to the firer's TN.

James Ojaste
Message no. 17
From: Kevin Langevin <kevinl@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:30:18 -0500
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hatchetman, GUV [mailto:hatchet@*********.BC.CA]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 1:36 AM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
>
>
> > > What I really want is a minigun class multibarrel laser or a
> gauss/railgun
> > type
> > > weapon. I think I play Fallout too much.

> You have NO idea. I'm an Unwashed Villager. Dave Hendee wrote
> a bunch of us
> into a random encounter. THAT's how much I play. Scary, neh?
[snip]
> Well, when you get it, go to www.interplay.com/fallout2/ and
> get the newest
> version of the patch. Market pressure was insanely high, so
> it was released
> with some big bugs.
>

Excellent...thanks for the advice...and congrats on being unwashed...I
think. :)

-Kev
Message no. 18
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:33:05 -0800
> Excellent...thanks for the advice...and congrats on being unwashed...I
> think. :)
>
> -Kev

Sometimes with the lunacy involved, I doubt it, but it is a good thing. And
it has it's benefits. Anywhere I go in the US, I know people. Especially
Texas. There seems to be a high concentration of dirty people there.

Hatchetman, GUV
Message no. 19
From: "Hatchetman, GUV" <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Laser Weapons
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:39:01 -0800
> Played it, finished it... Very similar to FO1, with the typical sequel
> stuff; ie bigger and better. And buggier. When you get it, get the
patch
> ASAP.

Very sequel. True to the original, that's why I like it. Hey, you aren't
one of the people who goes to the Interplay/BIS site to whine, are you?

Hatchetman, GUV

Further Reading

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