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Message no. 1
From: "Mark D. Fender" <mfender@******.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: Layering Armor
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:18:50 -0500
Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
had ideas.

PAX
Mark Fender
Death
Scurge
"It is not that I succeed, but that everyone else fail."--Attila the Hun
Message no. 2
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 19:45:37 -0400
On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Mark D. Fender wrote:

> Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
> can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
> version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
> had ideas.

The official policiy is found in the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to
Real Life (commonly referred to as NAGRL). I can't cite a page number
because I lent it out to one of my players.
The basic idea is that you take the higher value, plus one-half
(round down) of the lower vaule. This is done for both ballistic and impact
indices. Also, no more than two layers can ever be combined in this
fashion (though Orthoskin is cumulative with layered armor, so you don't
get screwed over that way). So form-fitting 3 under a lined coat
becomes an overall armor rating of 6/2.
Additionally, some GM's (myself included) are fairly restrictive
on what can be layered. The form-fitting and coat above would be okay,
but something like, say, an armor jacket and a vest with plates is not
going to fly. Well, I mean it might, but it would be horribly obvious
and you'd look and move like the Staypuft Marshmallow Man. I've heard of
harsher GM's who rule that the total layered armor rating can also
reduce your combat pool (as per the heavy armor rules) if it is higher
than your Quickness. This would seem to make sense in certain cases,
but you may find it too restrictive.
Hope this helps.

Marc
Message no. 3
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 21:44:02 -0400
On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Mark D. Fender wrote:

> Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
> can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
> version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
> had ideas.
Try page 94 of the NAGRL. They say you add half the rating of the least
effective armor to that of the most effective. They also put limit like
you can only put a jacket or long coat over clothing-style armor. You may
also wish to let form-fitting armor. In my game I ruled a flat +1/+1 over
the best armor.

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Message no. 4
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:48:45 GMT
> Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
> can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
> version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
> had ideas.

The official version is in the NAGRL: apart for some specialist ensemble
outfits listed there. On Page 94, the rule is stated that you can
get the benefits of one piece, plus half the benefit of another. Typically
you might wear a Vest with Plates (4/2) and a Lined Coat (4/2): this
would give you 6/3 armour protection in total.

-begin house rules-
I also apply the rules for heavy armour to the total rating: if the
higher of Ballistic or Impact is over the wearer's Quickness, you
lose one die of Combat Pool per point over. So Joe Blow with quickness
3 in the above combo loses 3 dice of pool.

A little harsh, but as an ex-motorcyclist, try wearing a thermal fleece
under a leather jacket and you'll soon get my point.

And to my mind this supercedes Form Fit "cannot be worn with any other
armour" in my Street Samurai catalogue. However, heavy/security/military
armours are so optimised layering won't work: clothing only.
-end house rules-

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:36:19 +0200
>Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
>can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
>version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
>had ideas.

*sigh* From the NAGRL: add one-half the second-highest armor rating to the
highest one. Armor jacket (5/3) + Lined Coat (4/2) gives armor 7/4.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 6
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:02:03 -0500
>*sigh* From the NAGRL: add one-half the second-highest armor rating to the
>highest one. Armor jacket (5/3) + Lined Coat (4/2) gives armor 7/4.

You would honestly allow anyone to wear both an armored jacket and a lined
coat?? Picture a guy in a leather bomber jacket, maybe even something
heavier like a ski jacket, we are talking about armor here, after all. Now
throw on a thick heavy duster over that. I just don't see it. First off,
he wouldn't be able to move at all under that. Second, he'd be so bulked up
that it'd be just too damn obvious. Wearing security armor would be more
subtle, and that's to say a guy could wear a jacket and a coat, anyway.
Look in your closet, grab a ski jacket, now find an overcoat. Put both on.
What? You can't? Oh, you found an overcoat that's 10 sizes too big and
it'll fit, kind of. OK, now look in the mirror. Now try to lift your arms
above your head. I think you get the point...


-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
Who would've used a vest and a jacket in his example...
Message no. 7
From: mnj <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:05:00 MDT
>Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
>can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
>version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
>had ideas.
>
Check page 94 of the Neo-Anarchists Guide to real life.

mnj AKA Dr Feelgood
Message no. 8
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:24:12 -0400
On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:[stuff about armor jacket and lined
coat being too bulky]

> -- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
> Who would've used a vest and a jacket in his example...

Marc
(Who probably wouldn't even allow *that* combination)
Message no. 9
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:37:49 -0500
>> -- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
>> Who would've used a vest and a jacket in his example...

Depends on the vest... vest w/plates? No, that's a flak jacket in my book.
"Vest" is something close to what one would wear in a three piece suit.


-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
Who should've clarified that as well...
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:23:07 +0200
>You would honestly allow anyone to wear both an armored jacket and a lined
>coat??

Yes. I don't think an armor jacket is 5 cm thick -- not with 2050s armor
technology. It might be reasonably obvious (Concealability 6 or so), but I'd
say that's because of the stiffness of the material, not because of its
thickness.

>Look in your closet, grab a ski jacket, now find an overcoat. Put both on.
>What? You can't?

You're right there. I can't -- I own neither ski jackets nor overcoats :)
(can you imagine? even if it's freezing I wear a summer jacket and a
T-shirt...) But I get your point, it's just that I see it slightly
differently... and anyway, the armor jacket and lined coat were just examples.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sanity is contagious
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 11
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Layering Armor
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:53:17 +0200
> Is there an official SR policy on layering armor? The closest thing I
> can find is p.54 of FoF on the Military Grade Armor. I've being usinga
> version of this for awhile now, and I was just wondering if anyone else
> had ideas.

Layering armor is not allowed in SR unless you use the optional
rule from the NAGRL. This rule allows for the layering of up to
2 pieces of armor and gives you the full rating of the biggest
one + 1/2 the rating of the other.

--
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Message no. 12
From: "RazorGirl ." <chumlikin@*******.COM>
Subject: layering armor?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:37:57 PDT
Does the combat section allow this? Is it in the equipment section? Or
are we going to have to wait for cannon companion or some other
equip/combat book like the NAGTRL?

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Message no. 13
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: layering armor? -Reply
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:46:34 -0400
>Does the combat section allow this? Is it in the equipment
>section? Or
>are we going to have to wait for cannon companion or some
>other equip/combat book like the NAGTRL?
Nope its in the main rule book, SR3. The rules are a bit
tougher then they were (My book is at home, so MC23 can
probably quote them before I can), so you no longer need
to have heat waves etc to convince runners to unlayer. :)
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Message no. 14
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: layering armor?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:57:30 -0700
>Does the combat section allow this? Is it in the equipment section? Or
>are we going to have to wait for cannon companion or some other
>equip/combat book like the NAGTRL?


Layering rules are included in the SR3 gear section, with armor
descriptions (typical of SR3's convenient layout). As MC23 already noticed,
they are fraking BRUTAL.
First of all, wearing ANY armor reduces your combat pool by 1 for every 2
points of ballistic or impact (total, not adjusted for any layers) over your
quickness. Quickness 6? An armor jacket alone will cost you one combat pool
die!
Second, when layering, you get the protection of the best piece plus 1/2
the next best. However, each point the unmodified total ballistic value
exceeds your quickness by adds 1 to all quickness related tests and skill use.
Reading the new skill system, that means ALL ranged weapon combat. It also
reduces your base movement by the same amount.

To much armor is a very bad thing, and to much in this case is not a huge
amount- even Form 2 and a jacket will penalize most people on quickness tests
and movement, not to mention pool. Is that worth it, for 1 extra ballistic
point?

Mongoose
Message no. 15
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: layering armor?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:37:30 -0400
Once upon a time, Mongoose wrote;

>>Does the combat section allow this? Is it in the equipment section? Or
>>are we going to have to wait for cannon companion or some other
>>equip/combat book like the NAGTRL?
>
>
> Layering rules are included in the SR3 gear section, with armor
>descriptions (typical of SR3's convenient layout). As MC23 already noticed,
>they are fraking BRUTAL.

<wiping tear from my eye>
<sniff> Isn't it beautiful?

> First of all, wearing ANY armor reduces your combat pool by 1 for every 2
>points of ballistic or impact (total, not adjusted for any layers) over your
>quickness. Quickness 6? An armor jacket alone will cost you one combat pool
>die!
Um, that's Quickness vs Ballistic and Quickness vs Impact not
Quickness versus BAllistic + Impact. the example is Quickness 3 wearing
5/3 armor losing one die.

<snip>
> To much armor is a very bad thing, and to much in this case is not a huge
>amount- even Form 2 and a jacket will penalize most people on quickness tests
>and movement, not to mention pool. Is that worth it, for 1 extra ballistic
>point?

Life or death worth it? Yes, if that's what it takes. But you need to
reread how those penalties apply.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 16
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: layering armor?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:12:18 -0700
>> First of all, wearing ANY armor reduces your combat pool by 1 for every
2
>>points of ballistic or impact (total, not adjusted for any layers) over your
>>quickness. Quickness 6? An armor jacket alone will cost you one combat
pool
>>die!
> Um, that's Quickness vs Ballistic and Quickness vs Impact not
>Quickness versus BAllistic + Impact. the example is Quickness 3 wearing
>5/3 armor losing one die.
>

Ah. Well, if thats the example. The wording imprecise, and I've seen it
done both ways in our game. Thats not so bad, then.

><snip>
>> To much armor is a very bad thing, and to much in this case is not a
huge
>>amount- even Form 2 and a jacket will penalize most people on quickness
tests
>>and movement, not to mention pool. Is that worth it, for 1 extra ballistic
>>point?
>
>Life or death worth it? Yes, if that's what it takes. But you need to
>reread how those penalties apply.


Oh, sure, razz me for screwing up on the on a rule I helped write!
(Twitch is my -very dead- character). I'm pretty sure I got that second part
right- except that "form fit" isn't in SR3! Nuts, I'll let some body else
take up the apostolic SR3 torch in the darkness now...

Mongoose
Message no. 17
From: kelvaris@***********.us (Jeff Haskell)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:52:22 -0900
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
So there is this huge debate on DSF about armor.

On one side a group says that you can only layer two pieces of armor and
get the Ballistic and Impact protection.

On the other side a group says that any piece of armor beyond the
highest piece is halved.

I feel the rules are open for interpretation either way.

Here they are for your viewing pleasure. It would be great if the guy
who actually wrote them happened to see this.

Thanks,

-Shadow

"Layering Armor
Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered
armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor,
add the rating of the highest-rated piece to one-half (round down) the
rating of the next highest-rated piece of clothing or armor to determine
the effective combined rating."

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URL: http://warthog.dumpshock.com/pipermail/shadowrn/attachments/abf53335/attachment.htm

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Message no. 18
From: owen@***.edu.au (Owen McKerrow)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:03:59 +1100
I don't see how you could read that as "any piece" beyond the highest
is halved.

For what its worth my vote goes for 2 pieces only.

On 16/11/2004, at 3:52 PM, Jeff Haskell wrote:

> So there is this huge debate on DSF about armor.
>
> On one side a group says that you can only layer two pieces of armor
> and get the Ballistic and Impact protection.
>
> On the other side a group says that any piece of armor beyond the
> highest piece is halved.
>
> I feel the rules are open for interpretation either way.
>
> Here they are for your viewing pleasure. It would be great if the guy
> who actually wrote them happened to see this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Shadow
>
> "Layering Armor
> Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered
> armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor,
> add the rating of the highest-rated piece to one-half (round down) the
> rating of the next highest-rated piece of clothing or armor to
> determine the effective combined rating."
>
"As of tomorrow, employees will only be able to access the building
using individual security cards. Pictures will be taken next Wednesday
employees will receive their cards in two weeks."
- "Dilbert Quotes" Winner, Fred Dales, Microsoft Corp
Message no. 19
From: jcotton1@*********.net (jcotton1@*********.net)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 2:53:06 -0500
> From: Owen McKerrow <owen@***.edu.au>
> Date: 2004/11/16 Tue AM 12:03:59 EST
>
> On 16/11/2004, at 3:52 PM, Jeff Haskell wrote:
>
> > "Layering Armor
> > Characters can layer armor for more protection, though even layered
> > armor has limited effects. When wearing more than one layer of armor,
> > add the rating of the highest-rated piece to one-half (round down) the
> > rating of the next highest-rated piece of clothing or armor to
> > determine the effective combined rating."
> >
> I don't see how you could read that as "any piece" beyond the highest
> is halved.
>
> For what its worth my vote goes for 2 pieces only.

FWIW, I'd have to agree. It seems to be saying in a fairly clear and straightforward
fashion that your two highest-rated pieces of armor determine your armor rating.
Otherwise, why wouldn't they have written, "...of any other pieces of clothing or
armor..."?

I suppose the paragraph that follows that rule *could* be used to bolster an argument for
multiple layers, but I think they probably meant it to reinforce the notion that more than
2 layers would be counterproductive. But hey, if you want to put on armored clothing, a
vest and a long coat (and possibly even more stuff) and rack up a significant TN modifier
to all your Quickness-based tests and skills, go for it. :)

Joseph M. Cotton
"There are only two stories in all of literature -- a man goes on a journey, and a
stranger comes to town." Leo Tolstoy
Message no. 20
From: bluedragon7@***.ch (bluedragon7)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:37:36 +0100
> FWIW, I'd have to agree. It seems to be saying in a fairly clear
> and straightforward fashion that your two highest-rated pieces of
> armor determine your armor rating. Otherwise, why wouldn't they
> have written, "...of any other pieces of clothing or armor..."?
>
> I suppose the paragraph that follows that rule *could* be used to
> bolster an argument for multiple layers, but I think they
> probably meant it to reinforce the notion that more than 2 layers
> would be counterproductive. But hey, if you want to put on
> armored clothing, a vest and a long coat (and possibly even more
> stuff) and rack up a significant TN modifier to all your
> Quickness-based tests and skills, go for it. :)

Well, having a high Quickness lets you have a Ballistic Armor of 10 and more
without any penalty if you are to generous

actually i allow the layering of any number of armor pieces, as long they
are reasonable to me (no two Jackets e.g.)

cya bluedragon7
Message no. 21
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:56:43 +0100
According to Jeff Haskell, on Tuesday 16 November 2004 05:52 the word on
the street was...

> On one side a group says that you can only layer two pieces of armor and
> get the Ballistic and Impact protection.
>
> On the other side a group says that any piece of armor beyond the
> highest piece is halved.

AFAIK the rules have always (well, since NAGRL anyway) said that you add
the highest to one-half the next-highest; it doesn't mention any others
after the "next highest-rated piece of armor", which doesn't leave too
much room for interpretation, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Ik ben het beu
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 22
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:36:44 -0800 (PST)
> > On one side a group says that you can only layer two pieces of
> > armor and get the Ballistic and Impact protection.

> > On the other side a group says that any piece of armor beyond the
> > highest piece is halved.

> AFAIK the rules have always (well, since NAGRL anyway) said that
> you add the highest to one-half the next-highest; it doesn't
> mention any others after the "next highest-rated piece of armor",
> which doesn't leave too much room for interpretation, IMHO.

I don't worry too much about this. I let players layer whatever
armor they want, applying arbitrary commen sense limits as needed.
For example, I allow only Form Fitted Body Armor to be layered with
any security armor. Nothing can be layered with Military Armor.
However, I have no problem at all with a player putting Form Fitted
Body Armor, armored clothing, and a lined coat on their character. I
simply halve all layers after the highest rated layer, to a minimum
armor value of 1. The average armor worn by a runner on a run in my
games is about 7 Ballistic and 4 Impact. Sometimes, this results in
a loss of one point of Combat Pool (and a movement penalty),
sometimes not, depending on the character. The descriptions of these
types of armor suggest that most of it is only slightly more bulky
than normal clothing.

======Korishinzo
--"Wait, you are wearing Form Fitted, full; Armored Clothing, a Vest,
with plates; an armored Camo Jumpsuit; a Lined Coat; a Security
Helmet; Forearm Guards; and carrying a Riot Shield?!? Oh, and an
LMG. Okay, let me guess, your code name for this run is 'Pillbox'?"



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Message no. 23
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:34:32 +0100
From: "Ice Heart" <korishinzo@*****.com>
>
> I don't worry too much about this. I let players layer whatever
> armor they want, applying arbitrary commen sense limits as needed.
> For example, I allow only Form Fitted Body Armor to be layered with
> any security armor. Nothing can be layered with Military Armor.
> However, I have no problem at all with a player putting Form Fitted
> Body Armor, armored clothing, and a lined coat on their character. I
> simply halve all layers after the highest rated layer, to a minimum
> armor value of 1.

So if I put on Armor Clothing (3/0) under my Lined Coat (4/2), I will
actually get (5/3)?

Halving the (3/0) to a minimum of 1 :-)

Lars
Message no. 24
From: shadowrunnerdingo@*****.com (Dingo)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:58:27 -0800 (PST)
<Snip>
> So if I put on Armor Clothing (3/0) under my Lined
> Coat (4/2), I will
> actually get (5/3)?
>
> Halving the (3/0) to a minimum of 1 :-)
>
> Lars

Actually you'll get a 5/2. The Armored clothing is a
3/0, not a 3/1.

Dingo



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Message no. 25
From: lws118@*****.psu.edu (lws118@*****.psu.edu)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:51:58 -0800
> > AFAIK the rules have always (well, since NAGRL anyway) said that
> > you add the highest to one-half the next-highest; it doesn't
> > mention any others after the "next highest-rated piece of armor",
> > which doesn't leave too much room for interpretation, IMHO.
>
>I don't worry too much about this. I let players layer whatever
>armor they want, applying arbitrary commen sense limits as needed.

I too allow multiple layerings, despite what the book seems to be implying.
I run my games as realistically as possible, and if there's a game balance
issue, I'll resolve it when it comes up. Thus far nobody in the group has
layered armor (not even 2) so I don't know if it's going to be an issue.
Anyone have bad experience letting people layer too much?
There's always the hard limit of double their quickness, where they're
unable to move.
Message no. 26
From: owen@***.edu.au (Owen McKerrow)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:03:22 +1100
On 17/11/2004, at 2:58 PM, Dingo wrote:

> <Snip>
>> So if I put on Armor Clothing (3/0) under my Lined
>> Coat (4/2), I will
>> actually get (5/3)?
>>
>> Halving the (3/0) to a minimum of 1 :-)
>>
>> Lars
>
> Actually you'll get a 5/2. The Armored clothing is a
> 3/0, not a 3/1.
>
> Dingo

I think Lars was having a joke at the fact that the minimum they could
round to was 1, thus 0 rounds up to 1.



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Message no. 27
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:05:20 -0800 (PST)
> > simply halve all layers after the highest rated layer, to a
> > minimum armor value of 1.

> So if I put on Armor Clothing (3/0) under my Lined Coat (4/2), I
> will actually get (5/3)?
>
> Halving the (3/0) to a minimum of 1 :-)
>
> Lars

*mock scowl* Cute. :)

No. Armored clothing is obviously normal clothing with some
anti-ballistic plates sewn in. There is no impact absorbtion to
speak of. So armored clothing under a lined coat would grant 5/2.
The main reason I instituted the "minimum value of 1" rules was for
things like Form Fitted armor (x/1). Worn under a coat, it suddenly
loses any effective impact absorbtion or abrasion protection? This
makes no sense to me. So, if someone dons a Form Fitted half suit
(3/1), an armored Armante outfit (3/0), and a nice armored duster
(4/2), they end up with armor of 6/3. For calculating how
encumbering said armor is, the Form Fitted is ignored. So they have
stack values of 7 and 2. If this PC had a Quickness of 5, they would
lose 1 combat pool and (in my games) lose 1 from their effective
Quickness for calculating movement.

======Korishinzo
--evil GM



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Message no. 28
From: failhelm@*****.com (Failhelm)
Subject: Layering armor
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:11:19 -0800
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:51:58 -0800, lws118@*****.psu.edu
<lws118@*****.psu.edu> wrote:
> I too allow multiple layerings, despite what the book seems to be implying.
> I run my games as realistically as possible, and if there's a game balance
> issue, I'll resolve it when it comes up. Thus far nobody in the group has
> layered armor (not even 2) so I don't know if it's going to be an issue.
> Anyone have bad experience letting people layer too much?
> There's always the hard limit of double their quickness, where they're
> unable to move.
>

I once made a dwarf with 110 points - after buying his quickness at
six I got the edge that gave me a 7, and then got cyberware to boost
it to a 8 or 9

Layering armor was easy for this character and a bit of a pain in the
ass. In order to keep everything running smooth I came up with 5
different "outfits" with the armor pre-calculated. I was using the CC
so I took advantage of special clothing and armor features that
resisted cold, heat and electicity. This made it so that not only
could I stack armor, but also resistances :) I typically had an armor
rating of @ least 7/5 and with a -1 penalty i got it up to 11/9 -
these numbers are estimates, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not far off.

btw I elliminated that penalty by dumping karma into my quickness AND
getting cyber upgrades.

I bring this up because this character was able to shake off hard core
vehicle ammo, a few grenades and other stuff that is a little crazy,
yes I beefed his body as well, all using cyberware and dumping points
during chargen. My point is merely that it isn't really that hard to
boost your Quickness to avoid the penalties and if you are skilled
enough you may not even care about a single point penalty, I know that
I didn't.

Failhelm

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