Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mister Incognito)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Sat Mar 10 08:30:01 2001
I want to take Russian Culture as a knowledge skill, how they think,
attitudes to things, general disposition etc. It's generally so that I can
interact with any Russians I meet better and kinda understand where they're
coming from. Immersing yourself into another culture and learning anything
significant though is a fairly hard task. To reflect this, we wanted to make
learning about other countrys cultures a little harder.

After talking about it for a while we came up with the idea of that you can
learn up to rating 2 as per normal. After that though you double the karma
costs to reflect how difficult it can be. This generally reflects book
learning- reading about other places and people. However, if you learn with
someone e.g. an emigrant from the place you only up the karma costs by half,
learning from a national makes it easier. If you live in the country whose
culture you trying to learn for six/eight months or more, you don't increase
the karma costs above normal. Plus, if you want a rating a 5 or above you
have to have spent some time there.

So what do you think? Or are we simply making it too hard/complex. Any
comments ideas welcome.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Mon Mar 12 22:55:01 2001
Hey! While we're on teh topic of no-one answering things... I
don't beleive I've seen any answers to this, so I'll take a pop at
it.

> I want to take Russian Culture as a knowledge skill, how they
think, attitudes to things, general disposition etc. It's generally
so that I can interact with any Russians I meet better and kinda
understand where they're coming from. Immersing yourself into another
culture and learning anything significant though is a fairly hard
task. To reflect this, we wanted to make learning about other
countrys cultures a little harder.

Makes sense, especially if you and the GM have decided that this
facet of running life is going to be important to your campaign.
I'll agree it is more realistic, but some people would think/don't
want to make this sort of thing a big issue.

> After talking about it for a while we came up with the idea of that
you can learn up to rating 2 as per normal. After that though you
double the karma costs to reflect how difficult it can be. This
generally reflects book learning- reading about other places and
people. However, if you learn with someone e.g. an emigrant from the
place you only up the karma costs by half, learning from a national
makes it easier. If you live in the country whose culture you trying
to learn for six/eight months or more, you don't increase the karma
costs above normal. Plus, if you want a rating a 5 or above you have
to have spent some time there.

That seems fair. It gives runners who are just dropping in to earn
some cash a bit of a disadvantage, which is sensible, since just
popping a "Talk Like Tatyana" chip isn't going to make anything
easier except... well, talking. Conversely, karma costs stay the
same for those who want to put the time into learning by immersion
(always the best way).

> So what do you think? Or are we simply making it too hard/complex.
Any comments ideas welcome.

I think I like it, and would love to hear how it goes. Give us an
update on whether it's worked out of not. And apologies for the
delay in answering! Don't leave us yet! ;)

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Tue Mar 13 12:30:01 2001
From: Mister Incognito

> I want to take Russian Culture as a knowledge skill,
> how they think, attitudes to things, general disposition
> etc. It's generally so that I can interact with any
> Russians I meet better and kinda understand where they're
> coming from.
[snip]

Really like the idea. Having lived abroad now for 4 years
I can see how little you can actually learn about a culture
from abroad, so it makes perfect sense.

I would actually go a little bit further and give someone
a penalty on his social skills once (s)he's in a new
culture until they increase the Culture skill up to the
level of their skill.

Martin
- "Hey Paddy howsit going!?" *whack!* -
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Max Belankov)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Wed Mar 14 05:15:01 2001
srdc> From: "Mister Incognito" <misterincognito@*******.com>
srdc> Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
srdc> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:28:36 -0000

srdc> I want to take Russian Culture as a knowledge skill, how they think,
srdc> attitudes to things, general disposition etc.

A definitely useful skill, but both you and your GM must know Russian culture
well to make it work.

srdc> It's generally so that I can interact with any Russians I meet better
srdc> and kinda understand where they're coming from.

Often you can tell where this man come from by just hearing him -- citizen of St.
Petersburg talk differently from citizen of Moscow or Vologda or
Novosibirsk (of course, this is true for any other country, not
just Russia). All you need is good knowledge of language, good enough
to tell one accent from another.

I think that (speaking about game mechanics) you need 2 or 3 successes
on Russian(4) test (or any other appropriate Language Skill test) to
recognize accent and make assumption about speaker's home region.

srdc> Immersing yourself into another culture and learning anything
srdc> significant though is a fairly hard task. To reflect this, we wanted to make
srdc> learning about other countrys cultures a little harder.
srdc> After talking about it for a while we came up with the idea of that you can
srdc> learn up to rating 2 as per normal. After that though you double the karma
srdc> costs to reflect how difficult it can be. This generally reflects book
srdc> learning- reading about other places and people.

Either that, or you can simple assume that things you learning without
really experiencing a culture not necessary will be true, and simply
raise TN by +4 or even +6.

srdc> So what do you think? Or are we simply making it too hard/complex. Any
srdc> comments ideas welcome.

Well, the ideas are good. And since I'm Russian myself, feel free to
contact me if you need to know something about Russia and its culture.

--
Best regards,
Max mailto:belank@***.ru
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Thu Mar 15 05:20:27 2001
According to Max Belankov, on Wed, 14 Mar 2001 the word on the street was...

> I think that (speaking about game mechanics) you need 2 or 3 successes
> on Russian(4) test (or any other appropriate Language Skill test) to
> recognize accent and make assumption about speaker's home region.

SR has a small problem here in that people can have a low skill level even
in their native language, yet any native speaker will almost certainly be
able to detect regional accents that non-native speakers can't even
distinguish unless they've spent a long time learning the language. IMHO,
this test would only apply to non-native speakers, or perhaps to native
speakers who are not from the country in question (for example, an American
in Australia). It might actually be linked to something like Geography
skill or some general knowledge skill about the country: roll the higher of
your language and that skill to place an accent.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kogels houden van mensen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Thu Mar 15 09:15:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth

> SR has a small problem here in that people can have a low skill level even
> in their native language, yet any native speaker will almost certainly be
> able to detect regional accents that non-native speakers can't even
> distinguish unless they've spent a long time learning the language.

Actually, I like how it worked in 1st edition. You started with your native
language at Intelligence +2, and then had a number of additional points for
languages equal to your intelligence.
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Thu Mar 15 14:30:01 2001
> > SR has a small problem here in that people can have a low skill level
even
> > in their native language, yet any native speaker will almost certainly
be
> > able to detect regional accents that non-native speakers can't even
> > distinguish unless they've spent a long time learning the language.
>
> Actually, I like how it worked in 1st edition. You started with your
native
> language at Intelligence +2, and then had a number of additional points
for
> languages equal to your intelligence.

Mmm. 1st edition. Threshold numbers.

Ahem, anyway, I'm about to make a cheesy reference here, but
in the musical "My Fair Lady" (not in the original play, "Pygmalion"),
there is an event where the main character was claimed to be
a foreigner by a linguist because her English was TOO good (Brief
plot synopsis: An English linguist makes a bet that he can turn a
lower class girl into an upper class lady simply by teaching her to
speak properly. He succeeds.). Every native speaker has at least
a slight accent, though some regions and people have less of an
accent than others. For example, Tom Brokaw and James Earl
Jones are considered to have little or no regional accent. A lack
of an accent can be a sign of taught English, rather than native
English, or it could be just a good professional speaking voice.

Anywho, to comment on Gurth's observation, I think a native speaker
would be able to identify an accent, but not necessarily the region. A
lot of people have trouble distinguishing Midwest Indiana from Southern
Alabama and Texas accents. They may be able to recognize it from
an actor or a relative, but not necessarily the localization. They would
certainly recognize if someone was speaking in an accent not of their
own region (or country, in some cases).

Hahns Shin, MS I
Budding cybersurgeon
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Fri Mar 16 04:50:01 2001
According to Hahns Shin, on Wed, 14 Mar 2001 the word on the street was...

> Ahem, anyway, I'm about to make a cheesy reference here, but
> in the musical "My Fair Lady" (not in the original play,
"Pygmalion"),
> there is an event where the main character was claimed to be
> a foreigner by a linguist because her English was TOO good

Realistically, I don't think that would mark her as a foreigner; more
likely as a relative of the queen :)

> Anywho, to comment on Gurth's observation, I think a native speaker
> would be able to identify an accent, but not necessarily the region. A
> lot of people have trouble distinguishing Midwest Indiana from Southern
> Alabama and Texas accents. They may be able to recognize it from
> an actor or a relative, but not necessarily the localization.

I more or less had Dutch accents in mind when I said that. Here, it's
pretty clear roughly which part of the country you're from by the way you
pronounce words, even if many people simply assume everyone who isn't from
the big cities talks like they do in the northeast :)

Anyway, we need to complicate things to reflect your remarks accurately in
game rules :) Roll a test with the appropriate language skill, using a
suitable knowledge skill about the country (Geography, Culture, etc.) as a
complementary skill. The TN is based on where you're from:

The area where the accent is used: 2
Another part of the same country/region: 4
A different country speaking the same language: 6
Somewhere they speak another language entirely: 8

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dennis Steinmeijer)
Subject: Learning About Foreign Cultures
Date: Fri Mar 16 04:55:01 2001
>===== Original Message From Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> ====>I more or less had
Dutch accents in mind when I said that. Here, it's
>pretty clear roughly which part of the country you're from by the way you
>pronounce words, even if many people simply assume everyone who isn't from
>the big cities talks like they do in the northeast :)

Oh please! Gurth, You know, just as well as I do that everyone who isn't from
a large city talk like they're from Groningen or Twente! Crazy rednecks. ;)

/dv8

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Learning About Foreign Cultures, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!