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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: PLUM9349@********
Subject: learning magic
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:01:00 EST
Date sent: 7-OCT-1992 11:56:42
>From: IN%"SLEIBOWITZ@****.HAMPSHIRE.EDU" "Smiling Wolf"
6-OCT-1992 18:45:15.
88
>To: IN%"DEPO4807@********.BITNET" "Todd T. Depole",
IN%"PALL1644@********.B
ITNET" "Matthew Pallmann", IN%"PLUM9349@********.BITNET"
"JASON PLUMADORE"
>CC:
>Subj: RE: magic oriented
>
>Received: from ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (MAILER_L@****) by splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
> (PMDF #12405) id <01GPMZX8G63K95Q8VS@******.cc.plattsburgh.edu>; Tue,
> 6 Oct 1992 18:44 EST
>Received: by UBVM (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 5438; Tue, 06 Oct 92 18:43:10 EDT
>Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 18:44:00 EDT
>From: Smiling Wolf <SLEIBOWITZ@****.HAMPSHIRE.EDU>
>Subject: RE: magic oriented
>Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
>To: "Todd T. Depole" <DEPO4807@********.BITNET>,
> Matthew Pallmann <PALL1644@********.BITNET>,
> JASON PLUMADORE <PLUM9349@********.BITNET>
>Reply-to: Smiling Wolf <SLEIBOWITZ@****.HAMPSHIRE.EDU>
>Message-id: <01GPMZX8G63K95Q8VS@******.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
>X-Envelope-to: DEPO4807, PALL1644, PLUM9349
>
>Someone (I forget who, so no offense to whoever it was) on the list pointed
>out that Paul Hume is the FASA designer most in favor of making magic
>"powerful". Apparently, he was responsible for those 1st edition rules like
>the one that said that victims of spells must roll against the caster's sorcery
>skill instead of the force of the spell (those of you unfamiliar with the rule
>can imagine what a scary prospect _that_ is). Anyway, that stuff apparently
>drew so much criticism that Tom Dowd requested that magic be curbed a little in
>2nd ed. For what it's worth.
>
>One good way to make things a little more interesting is to eliminate the
>table of spells from the rules. Yup, that's right. If they want a spell,
>they have to describe in advance what they want the spell to do. If the spell
>they want is in there, you can decide whether or not they can get a hold of the
>formula - after all, you don't find hermetic formula for hellblast spells just
>lying around, and shamanic formulas can't be recorded on electronic medium. In
>short, they'll be doing a lot of hunting down good teachers (who have their own
>motivations), or be shacked up in their lodge/library all day trying to work ou
t
>a formula on their own.
>
>If they come up with a spell _not_ covered by the rules, you can apply the
>spell design system from the Grimore (if you have it), modified for the 2nd
>edition drain codes. I've been working on such a system: I'll post what I've
>got as soon as I can remember to bring the stuff with me.
>
>Anyway, as another game once put it, "Ignorance and fear, fear and ignorance.
>These are our watchwords."
>
> Your humble servant,
> Smiling Wolf
>
>sleibowitz@****.hampshire.edu

The reason for the spell creation tables and the existing spell tables
is to facilitate time and such during a game session, after all with all
thats happening in the shadows do you think a rigger has time to design new
drones all the time or a decker has time to write programs endlessly. The
spell tables are what is already known and most people have access to so
the reason they are there is to make learning more efficient. After all
not every character (or player for that matter) is an Issac Newton or an
Einstien. They aren't all creative enough to figure out what they really
want. A good way to do it is browse, find the spell then go through the
process described in the books of paying karma, Nuyen and so forth.

" I think its time for all the nice little Street Samuri to take a nap. "

Sandman
Message no. 2
From: Smiling Wolf <SLEIBOWITZ@****.HAMPSHIRE.EDU>
Subject: Re: learning magic
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 12:13:00 EDT
>>One good way to make things a little more interesting is to eliminate the
>>table of spells from the rules. Yup, that's right. If they want a spell,
>>they have to describe in advance what they want the spell to do. If the spell
>>they want is in there, you can decide whether or not they can get a hold of
the
>>formula - after all, you don't find hermetic formula for hellblast spells just
>>lying around, and shamanic formulas can't be recorded on electronic medium.
In
>>short, they'll be doing a lot of hunting down good teachers (who have their
own
>>motivations), or be shacked up in their lodge/library all day trying to work
ou
t
>>a formula on their own.

> The reason for the spell creation tables and the existing spell tables
>is to facilitate time and such during a game session, after all with all
>thats happening in the shadows do you think a rigger has time to design new
>drones all the time or a decker has time to write programs endlessly.

Designing new drones and designing a new spell are two different things,
methinks. I use the spell tables to establish what spells magic types start
out with. After that, they pretty much have to hunt down the rest. I should
also add that saying that the players can't use the table like a shopping list
is not the same as saying that none of the spells on it exist. If someone
wants a spell that is described on the table, all you have to do is figure out
whether or not he can get it.

>The
>spell tables are what is already known and most people have access to so
>the reason they are there is to make learning more efficient. After all
>not every character (or player for that matter) is an Issac Newton or an
>Einstien. They aren't all creative enough to figure out what they really
>want.

I think you underestimate your players. If a mage wants a straightforward
combat spell that does moderate damage, suggest a mana bolt. Describe what
it does. If he says "But wait, I want it to affect physical items too," make
it a power bolt. And so on.

And to the person who wrote me privately pointing out that 2nd ed rules
invalidate the Grimoire: I know. I said to _modify_ the spell creation rules.
I've already figured out the system for combat spells, and I'm working on
detection spells now... unfortunately, from what work I've done so far, it
seems that they have scrapped their notion of having a straightforward spell
design system in favor of almighty game balance (witness the drain for Mind
Probe").

Anyway, coming soon: 2nd ed Spell Design!!!

>Sandman

Your humble servant,
Smiling Wolf

sleibowitz@****.hampshire.edu

Further Reading

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Thwap!