Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: jjvanp@*****.com (Jan Jaap van Poelgeest)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
Folks,

Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
distribution of LE's around the globe?

The plan would be to order LE's online, have them
shipped to a US address, then have the recipient send
the LE's on to their actual buyers.

I suppose there's some effort involved in the form of
changing the address on the package that comes in and
bringing it to the post office. Since the alternative
is paying 62 dollars more, I'd be willing to consider
any reasonable requests for slush fund contributions
-in addition to paying for the intl. postage of
course.

Please email me at jjvanp@*****.com , or announce your
gullibility to the list :).

cheers,

Jan Jaap



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 2
From: mal2@**.com (Jerry Hill)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:29:45 -0000 (GMT)
On Thu, September 15, 2005 7:46 am, Jan Jaap van Poelgeest said:
> Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
> wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
> distribution of LE's around the globe?

If you guys can find copies of the Limited Edition, I'll be happy to
recieve them and re-post them to you via a carrier of your choice. Just
reimburse me for the shipping costs.

--
Jerry
Message no. 3
From: rencheple@*******.net (Tim Martin)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:53:38 -0400
Jerry Hill wrote:

>On Thu, September 15, 2005 7:46 am, Jan Jaap van Poelgeest said:
>
>
>>Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
>>wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
>>distribution of LE's around the globe?
>>
>>
>
>If you guys can find copies of the Limited Edition, I'll be happy to
>recieve them and re-post them to you via a carrier of your choice. Just
>reimburse me for the shipping costs.
>
>
>
I work for an aviation maintenance company on the east coast and thought
that I might be able to take advantage of our relationship with our
shippers (we ship parts to operations in countries in Europe, Asia and
South America with a fair amount of regularity). I queried or Shipping
and Receiving manager today as to the cost given the rough size and
weight to ship to Australia and the Netherlands. He didn't have the
Netherlands answer handy (said he needed a postal code), but he did know
that the cost to ship a single book to Australia would be about $65 US.

If that is a significant cost savings (after accounting for the book
itself), then I would be willing to help out.

Tim
Message no. 4
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:31:50 -0400
On Sep 15, 2005, at 09:53, Tim Martin wrote:

> Jerry Hill wrote:
>
>> On Thu, September 15, 2005 7:46 am, Jan Jaap van Poelgeest said:
>>
>>> Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
>>> wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
>>> distribution of LE's around the globe?
>>>
>>
>> If you guys can find copies of the Limited Edition, I'll be happy to
>> recieve them and re-post them to you via a carrier of your choice.
>> Just
>> reimburse me for the shipping costs.
>>
>>
> I work for an aviation maintenance company on the east coast and
> thought that I might be able to take advantage of our relationship
> with our shippers (we ship parts to operations in countries in Europe,
> Asia and South America with a fair amount of regularity). I queried
> or Shipping and Receiving manager today as to the cost given the rough
> size and weight to ship to Australia and the Netherlands. He didn't
> have the Netherlands answer handy (said he needed a postal code), but
> he did know that the cost to ship a single book to Australia would be
> about $65 US.
>
> If that is a significant cost savings (after accounting for the book
> itself), then I would be willing to help out.
>
The easiest way it seems is to send a LOT of books to one person and
then buy that person airfare to fly out with a bag full of books. I
would normally volunteer as I am in the States at the moment, but will
not be heading to Australia any time soon. I would be going back to
Europe so could arrange a drop of books into the Netherlands, Germany,
etc. I imagine it would take about 25 people in Europe to get
someone's airfare. Australia would be fewer people, but would cost
each more.

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 5
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:25:47 -0500
> Folks,
>
> Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
> wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
> distribution of LE's around the globe?
>
> The plan would be to order LE's online, have them
> shipped to a US address, then have the recipient send
> the LE's on to their actual buyers.
>
> I suppose there's some effort involved in the form of
> changing the address on the package that comes in and
> bringing it to the post office. Since the alternative
> is paying 62 dollars more, I'd be willing to consider
> any reasonable requests for slush fund contributions
> -in addition to paying for the intl. postage of
> course.
>
> Please email me at jjvanp@*****.com , or announce your
> gullibility to the list :).
>
> cheers,
>
> Jan Jaap
>

I'll do it, so long as you don't mind that I'll read the 8 page fiction
thing that I can't get in my regular hardback before sending it on ;)
Message no. 6
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:32:29 -0700
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:53:38 -0400
Tim Martin <rencheple@*******.net> wrote:
> Jerry Hill wrote:
>
[snip]

but he did know that the cost
> to ship a single book to Australia would be about $65 US.
>
> If that is a significant cost savings (after accounting for the book
> itself), then I would be willing to help out.
>
> Tim

It would probably be cheaper to go USPS global priority
--Anders
Message no. 7
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:06:46 +0200
According to Tim Martin, on 15-9-05 15:53 the word on the street was...

> the cost to ship a single book to Australia would be about $65 US.

I'm guessing almost any kind of regular mail will be cheaper. The
problem is that the webstore ships with UPS or something similar, and
they indeed charge that much to send a book across the ocean.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
de limme
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:08:38 +0200
According to Scott Harrison, on 15-9-05 16:31 the word on the street was...

> I imagine it would take about 25 people in Europe to get someone's
> airfare.

Everyone I mentioned the shipping cost to had a reaction along the lines
of "Do they send someone on a plane with a single book in a bag or
something?" :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
de limme
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: grimjack@******.com (Martin Little)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:47:22 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Gurth wrote:

> According to Scott Harrison, on 15-9-05 16:31 the word on the street was...
>
> > I imagine it would take about 25 people in Europe to get someone's
> > airfare.
>
> Everyone I mentioned the shipping cost to had a reaction along the lines
> of "Do they send someone on a plane with a single book in a bag or
> something?" :)
>

I'm pretty sure this is true with anyone who takes orders over the web
these days.
The amount of fraud has become so common that any sort of non-north
american request is only going to be sent to a physical address instead of
a post office box just to try to avoid the fraud chargebacks.
Message no. 10
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:10:27 +0200
According to Martin Little, on 15-9-05 19:47 the word on the street was...

> The amount of fraud has become so common that any sort of non-north
> american request is only going to be sent to a physical address instead of
> a post office box just to try to avoid the fraud chargebacks.

But what does that have to do with the shipping cost charged by UPS?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
de limme
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: grimjack@******.com (Martin Little)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:19:22 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Gurth wrote:

> According to Martin Little, on 15-9-05 19:47 the word on the street was...
>
> > The amount of fraud has become so common that any sort of non-north
> > american request is only going to be sent to a physical address instead of
> > a post office box just to try to avoid the fraud chargebacks.
>
> But what does that have to do with the shipping cost charged by UPS?
>
I was merely pointing out why postal service usually isn't an option
outside the continental US, which was a subtext to the original thread.

But since you asked, I'll take a swing at it :)
As to why UPS is so high...

1) AFAIK they run their own planes/trucks/etc, fuel as you might have
noticed is somewhat expensive.
2) All that infrastructure is expensive when you don't have a government
funding you (Like say the post office) (Who usually is at least partially
the reason for item #1) Usually they have to maintain customs brokering
which probably has a lot of 'incidental' costs.
3) The target market for UPS international shipping isn't Joe RPGer, it's
businesses who don't really care how much it costs (Within reason) as long
as it gets there. The same reason that it costs more to buy a round trip
ticket on a plane during the week that doesn't stay over a weekend.
Message no. 12
From: rencheple@*******.net (Tim Martin)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:49:14 -0400
Tim Martin wrote:

> Jerry Hill wrote:
>
>> On Thu, September 15, 2005 7:46 am, Jan Jaap van Poelgeest said:
>>
>>
>>> Are there any in habitants of the USA out there who
>>> wouldn't mind facilitating a less money-means-based
>>> distribution of LE's around the globe?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you guys can find copies of the Limited Edition, I'll be happy to
>> recieve them and re-post them to you via a carrier of your choice. Just
>> reimburse me for the shipping costs.
>>
>>
>>
> I work for an aviation maintenance company on the east coast and
> thought that I might be able to take advantage of our relationship
> with our shippers (we ship parts to operations in countries in Europe,
> Asia and South America with a fair amount of regularity). I queried
> or Shipping and Receiving manager today as to the cost given the rough
> size and weight to ship to Australia and the Netherlands. He didn't
> have the Netherlands answer handy (said he needed a postal code), but
> he did know that the cost to ship a single book to Australia would be
> about $65 US.
>
> If that is a significant cost savings (after accounting for the book
> itself), then I would be willing to help out.
>
> Tim
>
>
According to the USPS.gov Postal rate charge for Airmail Parcel Post
Rates to Australia:

1 lb.: $14.50
2 lbs.: $18.75
3 lbs.: $23.25
4 lbs.: $26.75

And it goes up from there. Weight limit is 44 lbs. While it's still
expensive compared to the cost of the book, it's much cheaper than UPS.

Tim
Message no. 13
From: sfeley@*****.com (Stephen Eley)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:34:00 -0400
On 9/15/05, Martin Little <grimjack@******.com> wrote:
>
> But since you asked, I'll take a swing at it :)
> As to why UPS is so high...

I work for UPS, in the International Finance & Accounting department.
One of my projects has been to maintain code for the application that
reports on UPS's actual costs for a specific international shipment.
The different divisions then use this application to figure out what
to charge.

I can't comment on specific costs, of course, but I can tell you that
the numbers you're talking about in this thread aren't *that* far
above what it costs UPS to get a single low-weight package delivered.
You're not getting scalped here. The reasons are too complex to
elaborate in detail (besides which, I'd get fired) but it comes down
to the fact that these aren't bulk rates. Every shipment for every
customer is treated as its own entity and takes its share of the
airfeed costs, the on-road costs, etc. And since most international
UPS shipments are time-sensitive and critical to someone, these costs
are going to be higher than your typical fourth class book rate. You
get faster, more reliable delivery and you pay for it.

The biggest single chunk for international is often brokerage costs,
especially to Europe; like Martin says, there's a customs bureaucracy
for every package that has to cross a border. Those costs are
generally per shipment, not per package, so if you had a single
shipper sending a bunch of packages to different places at once you
could (theoretically) reduce your costs significantly.

Anyway, that's the most I can say on it. I'm not trying to sell
anyone on shipping UPS or suggest that you should be happy about these
prices. I'm just saying that they are what they are for a reason. It
costs money to put boxes on a plane and send them around the world
within a couple of days. Sure, UPS's profit margin for international
is higher than zero, but you're not getting charged double the costs
or anything like that.

(Now to yank this forcibly back to topic: is there any ongoing 'zine
that might be interested in a write-up of what a Sixth World supply
chain & delivery company might look like? I've been idly speculating
on this for a while.) >8->


--
Have Fun,
Steve Eley (sfeley@*****.com)
ESCAPE POD - the SF podcast magazine
http://escape.extraneous.org
Message no. 14
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:30:11 -0400
At 03:34 PM 9/15/2005, Stephen Eley wrote:
>(Now to yank this forcibly back to topic: is there any ongoing 'zine
>that might be interested in a write-up of what a Sixth World supply
>chain & delivery company might look like? I've been idly speculating
>on this for a while.) >8->

All I know is that FedEx and UPS in one of my GM's versions of the world
are licensed to carry firearms, just like DocWagon. :)

Oh... and security-grade body armor, too.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 15
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:33:51 -0500
> All I know is that FedEx and UPS in one of my GM's versions of the world
> are licensed to carry firearms, just like DocWagon. :)
>
> Oh... and security-grade body armor, too.


You're kidding right?

Where's this at?
Message no. 16
From: sfeley@*****.com (Stephen Eley)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:42:39 -0400
On 9/15/05, Timothy J. Lanza <tjlanza@************.com> wrote:
>
> All I know is that FedEx and UPS in one of my GM's versions of the world
> are licensed to carry firearms, just like DocWagon. :)
>
> Oh... and security-grade body armor, too.

Sure, that's only logical. But are their riggers still members of the
Teamsters Union, and was their most recent labor dispute settled
through battalion-level engagements? >8->


--
Have Fun,
Steve Eley (sfeley@*****.com)
ESCAPE POD - the SF podcast magazine
http://escape.extraneous.org
Message no. 17
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3(AS40 R-3))
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 05:50:24 +0900
On 9/15/05, Timothy J. Lanza <tjlanza@************.com> wrote:
>>> All I know is that FedEx and UPS in one of my GM's versions of the world
>>> are licensed to carry firearms, just like DocWagon. :)
>>
>> Oh... and security-grade body armor, too.

>Sure, that's only logical. But are their riggers still members of the
>Teamsters Union, and was their most recent labor dispute settled
>through battalion-level engagements? >8->

You know, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm going on leave here in about a
month or so, and the fact that I live in Guam, I would have played mule for
you guys in Aus.

But I have the same problem with shipping even though we're a US territory
and have a regional US Post Office.
Message no. 18
From: pentaj2@********.edu (pentaj2@********.edu)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:22:28 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Eley <sfeley@*****.com>
Date: Thursday, September 15, 2005 3:34 pm
Subject: Re: LE twinking


> (Now to yank this forcibly back to topic: is there any ongoing 'zine
> that might be interested in a write-up of what a Sixth World supply
> chain & delivery company might look like? I've been idly speculating
> on this for a while.) >8->

I'm not a 'zine, but I'd be interested.:-)
Message no. 19
From: pentaj2@********.edu (pentaj2@********.edu)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:39:03 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valeu, John W. EM3(AS40 R-3)" <valeuj@*****.navy.mil>
Date: Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:50 pm
Subject: RE: LE twinking


> You know, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm going on leave here
> in about a
> month or so, and the fact that I live in Guam, I would have played
> mule for
> you guys in Aus.
>
> But I have the same problem with shipping even though we're a US
> territoryand have a regional US Post Office.

Y'know, this raises a question I've always had. Why are costs always,
without exception, higher in Alaska or Hawaii, but not in Puerto Eico,
the USVI, or such?

John
Message no. 20
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:45:28 -0500
>> You know, if it wasn't for the fact that I'm going on leave here
>> in about a
>> month or so, and the fact that I live in Guam, I would have played
>> mule for
>> you guys in Aus.
>>
>> But I have the same problem with shipping even though we're a US
>> territoryand have a regional US Post Office.
>
> Y'know, this raises a question I've always had. Why are costs always,
> without exception, higher in Alaska or Hawaii, but not in Puerto Eico,
> the USVI, or such?
>
> John
>
>
Because PR and the Virgin Islands are territories, and therefore not taxed
Message no. 21
From: phorce@*****.com (Erik Fish)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:10:56 -0400
On 9/15/05, Stephen Eley <sfeley@*****.com> wrote:
> (Now to yank this forcibly back to topic: is there any ongoing 'zine
> that might be interested in a write-up of what a Sixth World supply
> chain & delivery company might look like? I've been idly speculating
> on this for a while.) >8->

Have you shopped this to The Shadowrun Supplemental?

http://tss.dumpshock.com/

Sounds like a good opportunity to create some detailed rules for
smuggling things through the system.
Message no. 22
From: jjvanp@*****.com (Jan Jaap van Poelgeest)
Subject: LE twinking
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

> According to Scott Harrison, on 15-9-05 16:31 the
> word on the street was...
>
> > I imagine it would take about 25 people in Europe
> to get someone's
> > airfare.
>
> Everyone I mentioned the shipping cost to had a
> reaction along the lines
> of "Do they send someone on a plane with a single
> book in a bag or
> something?" :)


I've heard it's possible to get cheaper flights if you
take along a package for a courier company. Adds
several hours to travel time, but I've heard customs
people end up being nicer. I'm guessing that this
practice might sometimes even be practiced by
companies in order to maintain service standards and
run a lower loss whenever there aren't enough
short-term deliveries to make sending things out a
plane profitable.

cheers,

Jan Jaap

----------------------------------------------------
Can we ask a fool if he wasn't merely imagining his
imaginations?

Were we to do so, could the fool not ask us whether we
aren't just reasoning our reasons?
----------------------------------------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about LE twinking, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!