Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Mike <ASMAD@*****.alaska.edu>
Subject: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 08:53:32 -0800
Has anyone else noticed how potentially deadly the levitate person spell
can become, if you use the optional falling rules from FoF? It's crazy.

For levitate, you multiply the number of successes by the magic rating of
the caster, and that's the height in meters. Let's say you have a beginning
mage with a MR of 6 and levitate at force 5. Adding dice from magic pool
(s)he gets four successes. That equals 24 meters up into the air.

So we have this poor sap hanging in the air (I know they get to resist, but
let's just say he failed). If the mage just drops him, he faces a 12D attack
from falling, with only 1/2 impact armor. Ouch! Pretty nasty effect if you ask
me. I guess that's why they made it an optional rule.

Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.



Mike Driggins
aka Draco
asmad@*****.alaska.edu
// I'm your worst nightmare.....a shadowrunner with a man-portable mortar. //
Message no. 2
From: Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca (Vincent Pellerin)
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 15:17:54 -0500
> Has anyone else noticed how potentially deadly the levitate person spell
>can become, if you use the optional falling rules from FoF? It's crazy.

<<example snipped>>

This attack by levitation would IMHO be restrained by situation,

1-Indoor it won't have much effect.
2-Following de spell description the weight increase the T.N.
(and foolowing this same rules the weight is about 50 Kg
Per body point (i believe, against the rule of the cybertechnology
that don't make more sense)).
3-All T.N. modifier still applys
4-I would give the poor dreck a chance to grab on something when
He feels the spells take effect.
5-Then he have to resit damage of the fall with is body.

In my opinion, this is a little bit deadly but not moore dans a burst of an
SMG or a manabolt spell. It is true that since it's primary purpose is
utilitary and it as a secondary purpose, it is a powerful spell.

I use this spell (force 2 ) to get the team on the roof of
buildings, over fences, to assault boats or even to move in complete
silence. That is useful.

On this subject do you use the "move" of the levitate spell on the action of
the spellcaster ( that would mean multiple moves in the round) or just once
in the 3 sec round (like a vehicule)?

> Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
>stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
>before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
>starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.

The price is high, the availbility to, this restrict the apparition
of this stuff during the game. As for the biginning character, the GM must
use is jugdement, depends on how you play your game. In my game we do
restrict some stuff but it is a case by case type of thing.



Vince
Message no. 3
From: dherr@********.net (David Herr)
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 17:07:57 EST
On Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:53:19 -0500 you wrote:

> Has anyone else noticed how potentially deadly the levitate person spell
>can become, if you use the optional falling rules from FoF? It's crazy.
>
This discution came up on the ed list a while back, we eventualy came
up with a suitable solution tho I don't remember it could some one
else who is on both lists please fill the rest of us in with a
shadowrun convertion of the rule?
Message no. 4
From: Paul@********.demon.co.uk (Paul Jonathan Adam)
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 22:52:23 GMT
> Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
> stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
> before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
> starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.

Actually, I like it. Remember, it works both ways. The sheer terror a
group of shadowrunners can experience when they come under accurate mortar
fire, as a non-wired but co-ordinated team of security troops close in,
is a sobering experience (luckily the orders were to capture, not kill...)

Artillery is much more something PCs have done to them, rather than
inflict. The same goes for most of the FoF book. I liked it, but then our
campaign is very much high-end military anyway: the heavier items are
a great way for PCs to get themselves into trouble.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: Mike <ASMAD@*****.alaska.edu>
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 20:26:03 -0800
> 1-Indoor it won't have much effect.

Actually I think that it could be just as effective inside, if you look a
the fac

> 2-Following de spell description the weight increase the T.N.
> (and foolowing this same rules the weight is about 50 Kg
> Per body point (i believe, against the rule of the cybertechnology
> that don't make more sense)).
> 3-All T.N. modifier still applys
> 4-I would give the poor dreck a chance to grab on something when
> He feels the spells take effect.
> 5-Then he have to resit damage of the fall with is body.
>
> In my opinion, this is a little bit deadly but not moore dans a burst of an
> SMG or a manabolt spell. It is true that since it's primary purpose is
> utilitary and it as a secondary purpose, it is a powerful spell.
>
> I use this spell (force 2 ) to get the team on the roof of
> buildings, over fences, to assault boats or even to move in complete
> silence. That is useful.
>
> On this subject do you use the "move" of the levitate spell on the action
of
> the spellcaster ( that would mean multiple moves in the round) or just once
> in the 3 sec round (like a vehicule)?
>
>> Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
>>stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
>>before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
>>starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.
>
> The price is high, the availbility to, this restrict the apparition
> of this stuff during the game. As for the biginning character, the GM must
> use is jugdement, depends on how you play your game. In my game we do
> restrict some stuff but it is a case by case type of thing.
>
>
>
> Vince
> ==================== Attachment Text#1 RFC-822-headers =================
>
> Received: from athos.itribe.net by VMS.ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-13 #8269)
> id <01HX4JY6DRQ8HSK3V8@***.ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU>; Wed, 01 Nov 1995 10:47:38 -0800
> Received: (from listproc@*********) by athos.itribe.net (8.6.12/8.6.12)
> id OAA23356; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:41:20 -0500
> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 14:41:20 +0300
> From: Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca (Vincent Pellerin)
> Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
> Sender: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> To: Multiple recipients of list <shadowrn@********.itribe.net>
> Errors-to: jdfalk@************.org
> Reply-to: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Message-id: <9511011813.AA19702@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca>
> X-Envelope-to: asmad@*****.alaska.edu
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3
> Originator: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Precedence: bulk
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> X-Comment: Shadowrun List
> Received: by ORION.ALASKA.EDU (UACN MRDaemon, v6.46) Type 17;
> Wed, 01 Nov 1995 10:48:42 -0800
Message no. 6
From: Mike <ASMAD@*****.alaska.edu>
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 20:56:40 -0800
> 1-Indoor it won't have much effect.
I'd have to argue that spell could be just as effective inside. All of the
movement takes place in one phase, or at least it can, so they're moving at an
incredibly fast pace. If you start slamming them into walls, they'd face an
M attack, if you rule that their speed was constant, and then you could slam
them into multiple walls, if you had enough successes.

> 2-Following de spell description the weight increase the T.N.

Yeah a +1 for every 100 kilos. And there are 50 kilos for every point of
body. The average person has body 3, so that's 150 kilos. Let me convert that
to the imperial system. That means the average person weighs 300 pounds! I
don't think so. There I've officially registered my complaint about the weight
problem.
> 3-All T.N. modifier still applys
> 4-I would give the poor dreck a chance to grab on something when
> He feels the spells take effect.

But if you use all of the movement in one phase, he really doesn't have
time to grab anything. They do get to make a strength test to resist being
lifted.

> I use this spell (force 2 ) to get the team on the roof of
> buildings, over fences, to assault boats or even to move in complete
> silence. That is useful.
>
> On this subject do you use the "move" of the levitate spell on the action
of
> the spellcaster ( that would mean multiple moves in the round) or just once
> in the 3 sec round (like a vehicule)?

Well it says that the move can all take place in one phase so I suppose that
if you really wanted to you could do it either way.

And I agree that it's a handy little spell (show me one that won't come in
handy at one time or another) but I felt that it was just a tad too powerful,
so I changed it. Made it successes x 3 meters to determine height.


Mike Driggins
aka Draco
asmad@*****.alaska.edu
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:53:32 +0100
Mike said on 1 Nov 95...

> So we have this poor sap hanging in the air (I know they get to resist, but
> let's just say he failed).

They get to resist only if they can hold onto something, I think... Like a
conveniently-placed lamppost or something. If they're out in the open I
wouldn't allow a resistance test against a Levitate spell.

> Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
> stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
> before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
> starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.

Unlike Shadowtech there are no recommendations in FoF about not allowing
it to starting characters, AFAIK. And as I always do in these cases :) I
will say that my standpoint is that there should be no limits to what a
starting character can get his/her hands on as long as they can pay the
Resources money for it. So no worries buying a heavy military armor or a
Panther cannon or an I-don't-know-what. Just don't expect to be able to
use it without thinkin twice about it *GM grin*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vrolijk lachend naar de kloten gaan
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: "Mark Steedman" <RSMS@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:18:24 GMT
"Gurth" writes
>
> So no worries buying a heavy military armor or a
> Panther cannon or an I-don't-know-what. Just don't expect to be able to
> use it without thinkin twice about it *GM grin*
>
Well they have another option, it just gives you a wonderful excuse
to pull out the lonestar book.
One night when the rigger decided to break the speed limits 'just
because he could' i decided to try and stop him, popping
turrets mounting weapons attracts attention, funny that he now sticks
to speed limits <he he>.

Its bound to change but there are more goodies in that sourcebook yet
<grin>

Mark
Message no. 9
From: "Mark Steedman" <RSMS@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:29:55 GMT
Vincent Pellerin writes
>
> In my opinion, this is a little bit deadly but not moore dans a burst of an
> SMG or a manabolt spell. It is true that since it's primary purpose is
> utilitary and it as a secondary purpose, it is a powerful spell.
>
yep, also handy, ecaping corp scientist, 'levitate person' oh come
here.... then when the results insiti on flailing like a maniac
bounce 'gently' off tceiling till it goes unconcious (preferable to
getting the merc black and blue subduing the problem, though game
mechanics would not have hurt)

As to resistance tests, spell force vs strength, target each other is
what i use assuming the target has something to grab hold of, if the
poor soul is in the middle of a street he/she has serious problem as
only gravity was holding themm down, oops. And falling really hurts
in SR <grin> i have seen up to an including a lesser dragon have
nasty accidents with the falling rules. [note sleepy dragons cannot
fly]
> I use this spell (force 2 ) to get the team on the roof of
> buildings, over fences, to assault boats or even to move in complete
> silence. That is useful.
>
One of the best spells in the utility category as a result. I use it
a lot myself, and the ED equivalent that my ED character has (real
pity thats self only, really spols the fun). Levitate item also works
on grenades, C12, briefcases, spare guns e.t.c.

> On this subject do you use the "move" of the levitate spell on the action
of
> the spellcaster ( that would mean multiple moves in the round) or just once
> in the 3 sec round (like a vehicule)?
>
I use it as a 'at casters action' though in practice it should be
spread over time the book keeping gets too much, same goes for
character movement.

The best to date was and NPC who managed 'get friend out of way of
that fragging Barrat' at 84M per complex action.

Mark
Message no. 10
From: Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca (Vincent Pellerin)
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 19:01:09 -0500
Mark wrote
>The best to date was and NPC who managed 'get friend out of way of
>that fragging Barrat' at 84M per complex action.
>
As speed goes we didn't get any record but a funny situation arised
once....

A rich guy wanted us to protect is son from possible kidnappers (a
long story), One day the brat (of course he was obnoxious (is that the way
to write this?)) have in is schedule to go see the seattle baseball team
play, but he don'T want to go in his father balcony, he wanted to be in the
bleachers....

During the game, someone strike a circuit and the brat catch the
ball. The troll next to us want him to trow the ball back on the field
because he don't like Seattle's team. Of course having two streat sam and
two phy. adept we keeped our ground.... A fragging Riot erupted in less than
10 seconds. My mage decided to take the kid, a small girl and himself out
of this war zone by is levitation spell. Floating toward the exit door, 20
feet over the head of every body my mage turn his head to see himself on the
big screens everywere around the field. The security of the ballpark
stopped the riot with DMSO, neurostun grenades and other chemicals. My mage
made the news... talk about boosting his public rep... and try to stay in
the shadows after that chummer.

Mr Jonhson "Oh yeah, your the mage of the ballpark, wright?"

Vince

P.S. When are we getting the new FAQ, are the old commands still working,
whats the new adress to send them?
Message no. 11
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: Levitate Spell
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 09:41:08 +1100
> I use this spell (force 2 ) to get the team on the roof of
>buildings, over fences, to assault boats or even to move in complete
>silence. That is useful.

Very useful indeed. I use it for the same purpose. As far as picking up
and dropping people goes, my GM gives them the same test to grab something
as they get for having an object wrenched out of their hands. (ie. Str with
TN# Force against spell successes)
When they hit the ground after plummetting a long way, we use the vehicle
collision rules based on their impact speed. Instead of working out square
roots of distance or such nasty stuff, just divide the combat turn into 3
seconds, say at initiative 21, 11, and 1.
Each phase on this sequence is 1 second, so their speed increases by 10 m/s
each phase.
Every time their next falling phase comes up, their speed increases by 10,
and they fall an extra (speed-5) meters. When they hit, multiply their
speed by 3 and look up damage on the collision table (or just remember the
table, it's pretty simple).

>On this subject do you use the "move" of the levitate spell on the action of
>the spellcaster ( that would mean multiple moves in the round) or just once
>in the 3 sec round (like a vehicule)?

Since it specifically says that "Objects can move the full 'distance' within
one Action Phase", I argued for each caster's action, but the GM overruled
me. In other words, things move about half the speed they would under the
base rules. Also, we can't levitate invisible things, even with astral
perception.

One other thing that he has ruled out is using Levitate as a remote ritual.
It's a pity, since I think it would be an excellent way to bring someone to
you for a nice, polite chat.
>From a different country, even. Can't you just picture the fixer who
double-crossed you being flung from Seattle to Denver by an irresistible
force, flailing limbs outlined against the sunset before touching down (as
gently as you see fit) inside an eldritch circle surrounded by sinister
mages? 8-]


>> Since I'm on the subject, does anyone else feel that the majority of the
>>stuff in FoF is just way out there? I know this has probably been covered
>>before, and I know that there's probably some suggestion in the book that
>>starting characters should be able to get this stuff, but I just had to ask.

Yeah, I reckon most of it is ridiculous for one reason or another. The
falling rules are a joke, the jumping (and other athletic feat) rules are
silly, the two-weapon rules are a munchkin's paradise, the ambidexterity
rules are exactly the wrong way around (higher skill gets penalised
*more*?), and most of the weapons and armour are overpowerful or laughable.
I mean, personal armour that stops HMG bursts dead? Yeah, right.

(IPE concussion grenade - the wallbuster's best friend)

--
Tim Little

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Levitate Spell, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!