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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Joe Block <JPB1@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 02:07:23 -0400
First, a couple of comments about Schizo and Guerilla.

Schizo sounds more like a linker than a language in and of itself. My only
suggestion about Guerilla is that it should be Comp Theory x 5% stealthy, or
perhaps get 5% extra stealth per success on a comp theory roll instead of a
flat 50%. I'm new to Shadowrun (just picked up SRII and Grimoire II,
haven't had a chance to play or ref it yet) so I'm not really sure what
difficulty to make the comp theory roll.

Actually, come to think of it the efficiency of the code written in all the
languages should depend on how many successes the author gets on a comp
theory roll, not their basic comp theory. Everyone has good and bad days,
after all. The efficiency is limited to the number of successes the
compiler's author got writing the compiler, though. After all, if the
compiler is inefficient, code it generates will be inefficient.

I'd like to see some provision for writing and using libraries - If *I* were
writing decking tools, I'd have a library of optimized code for stealth, one
for attack functions, etc. Library use should be a penalty to size but a
bonus for speed - if you're including pre-written hand optimized code it is
a lot quicker than starting from scratch. Before anyone starts saying it
will generate less efficient or slower code, remember that this is something
the decker is constantly twiddling, trying to eke out one or two more
percent effectiveness. A decent library's source code would be worth more
to a decker than his deck in some cases - you can buy another deck anywhere,
but a good library requires months of work.

WRITING LIBRARIES
Here is my initial idea for writing libraries - The max rating it can give
your program is limited to the total number of successes (using comp theory
or a specialization in programming) you got writing the library. Each die
you allocate to writing the library takes 3 days of coding time. If you
quit in the middle, you only get the benefit of half of the hours you
already spent when you go back to work on it (it takes time to regain your
train of thought). You only roll the dice after completing all the time
required. You may announce in advance that the first X number of successes
are going to be devoted to reducing time spent rather than towards the
library's eventual rating if you are in a hurry.

UPGRADING LIBRARIES
First, you need to understand how it works. We are talking about several
megapulses worth of very complex information, so make a Comp Theory skill
roll with a target number of the library's current rating with the following
modifiers: If you didn't write this library, or you haven't already
successfully made an comprehension roll on it in the past, add 1 to the
target.

If you are working from source code obtained by dissassembling an
existing library rather than from the original commented source code,
add 2 to the target.

If you have source code to a program that has the rating you are trying
to upgrade the library to (or if the program has a higher rating),

subtract 1 from the target.

The base time for comprehension is the library's rating in weeks. It takes
a long time to trace through the code thoroughly enough so you can fiddle
with it without causing nasty errors that are nearly impossible to find.

DOING THE ACTUAL REWRITE
Now that you understand the library thoroughly, you get to make another
attempt at writing the library. The rules are exactly the same as writing
it from scratch except that you can use the successes that the library
already has (its rating, remember) and apply them either to the rating of
the new version, or to reducing the time required for the revision.

Note: You cannot end up with a library with a rating higher than your
computer theory - surplus successes go towards reducing time spent.

Once you stop working on a library, you don't need to make another
Comprehension roll on it until (number of successes on a comp theory roll)
weeks after you last worked on it. The target number is the library rating
+ 3.

Joe Block <jpb1@******.com>

"Finding out the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus werenUt real was really hard
on God and Jesus - at least the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus stopped by once
a year and brought me stuff." -- T-Shirt
Message no. 2
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Libraries
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:13:12 +1100
Ok guys. I've been playing Shadowrun for a long time, but I am still
having tribal with all of the Hermetic Libraries. Would someone please be
kind enough to tell me what each one is needed for? The info is split up
in different places, and I think it's even contradictory, so please
someone, can you explain all of their uses to me?

Ray
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 02:41:10 -0500
>Ok guys. I've been playing Shadowrun for a long time, but I am still
>having tribal with all of the Hermetic Libraries. Would someone please be
>kind enough to tell me what each one is needed for? The info is split up
>in different places, and I think it's even contradictory, so please
>someone, can you explain all of their uses to me?

You are the greatest....I wasn't going to get around to that until next
week. But then, I was actually gonna sit down with all the books and piece
it together....

If I do it tonight, I'll let you know.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 03:20:39 -0500
Here's What I have on Libraries ( I ignored the weird traditions for the moment)

Medicine Lodge:
Enchanting test: p26 Gimmy
Ally Formula: p70 Grimmy
Ally Summoning: p70 Grimmy
Binding Free Spirits: p78 Grimmy
Learning a new spell p123 SRII
Desiging a spell: p114 Grimmy

Hermetic Libraries:
Sorcery:
Increase Sorcery Skill: p124 SRII

Magical Theory:
Learn New Spell: pp124,132 SRII
Designing spell: p114 Grimmy

Conjuring:
to conjure: pp124, 140 SRII
Ally Formula: p70 Grimmy
Ally Summoning: p71 Grimmy
Binding Free Spirit: p78 Grimmy

Enchanting:
Enchanting Test: p26 Grimmy

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:17:08 +0100
Ray & Tamara said on 11:13/27 Jan 97...

> Ok guys. I've been playing Shadowrun for a long time, but I am still
> having tribal with all of the Hermetic Libraries. Would someone please be
> kind enough to tell me what each one is needed for? The info is split up
> in different places, and I think it's even contradictory, so please
> someone, can you explain all of their uses to me?

Basically, there is a magical library for each of the skills, and you
need whichever skill you're using -- for example, conjuring an elemental
requires a Conjuring library, for creating a new spell it's a a Magical
Theory library, etc. The library's rating has to equal or exceed the
rating of whatever you're doing.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Libraries
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:30:32 -0500
>> in different places, and I think it's even contradictory, so please
>> someone, can you explain all of their uses to me?
>Basically, there is a magical library for each of the skills, and you
>need whichever skill you're using -- for example, conjuring an elemental
>requires a Conjuring library, for creating a new spell it's a a Magical
>Theory library, etc. The library's rating has to equal or exceed the
>rating of whatever you're doing.

Almost. In researching for the list I posted, I noted that often the
library has to be Equal to your SKILL, else you use the libraries rating,
regardless of the difficulty of the task. (e.g., it takes a (skill, say 6)
Conjuring Library 6 to summon a Force 1 or a Force 8. No difference.

I thought it odd, but there it was. And other times, it was like you said.
No, I don't remember which was which....I posted page numbers, use those.

/ Brett "SwiftOne" Borger
\\\' , / // bxb121@***.edu
\\\// _/ //' http://www.opp.psu.edu/~bxb24/swiftone.htm
\_-//' / //<' Webmaster, Office of Physical Plant,
\ /// <//' The Pennsylvania State University
/ >> \\\` http://www.opp.psu.edu
/,)-^>> _\`
(/ \\ / \\\
// //\\\
((`
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Libraries
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:34:46 GMT
Spike writes

> |The problems I have living on a rock in the deep south of England aren't
> |indicative of the rest of the UK. a friend has a library near him in
> |London that's well equipped. Unfortunately the few things he's found in
> |there that might be useful are reference only, and they won't photocopy
> |any of it. :(
>
> Every library I've ever been in has a public pay-photocopier.
> I'm surprised that them londoners are so primative....
>
The problem is most likely the book in question is an exception to
the usual rule of 5% photocopying or they are not prepared to do it
for free.

The solution to all your library problems would be the British
Libraries interlibrary loan service. However i suspect this could
prove quite costly to use for private purposes. I have used this
extensively for getting research papers and books. Books come to your
local library and you can borrow them for some time, limit dependent
on the book, some are limited (in very rare cases) to being read in
your local library but at least the book comes to the nearest
library. In the case of research journal papers you get a photocopy
posted to you. My experience is through the University however using
the university library to do the ordering who do this sort of thing
all the time and with the Uni footing the bill. I don't know but i
have a feeling this service is quite expensive, though its probably a
LOT cheaper than trying to get from the IOW to London!
This may also be considerably more difficult to use from your average
public library but i'm not sure.

Usually, at least in Britian you are allowed to photocopy up to 5% or
1 chapter of a book for research purposes. Some reference texts are
however excluded, as are ordance survey mays (i believe).

Mark

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