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Message no. 1
From: Kevin White <kevw@*****.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:56:03 -0600
Sort of on a related issue, I am about to start a new campaign (*yeah*
the crowds go wild) which I am GMing (*booo* not so good!) and I was
wondering how the points system of character generation compares with
the priorities system. Do people have a preference (silly question
asking if people have an opinion ;)?

The only system I have used is the prioroties and I find it a bit to
"stepped".


Diamond
Message no. 2
From: "Jamie Keane (Screaming In Digital)" <chemlab@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:44:47 -0500
It's actually a really good system. I've just started up a campaign, and
whenever possible, I've used the point-based system. Granted, the
generation process takes a little longer, but I've noticed that the
characters are much more well-rounded and balanced, stat-wise.

Jamie

----------
> From: Kevin White <kevw@*****.CO.UK>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
> Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 13:56
>
> Sort of on a related issue, I am about to start a new campaign (*yeah*
> the crowds go wild) which I am GMing (*booo* not so good!) and I was
> wondering how the points system of character generation compares with
> the priorities system. Do people have a preference (silly question
> asking if people have an opinion ;)?
>
> The only system I have used is the prioroties and I find it a bit to
> "stepped".
>
>
> Diamond
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:09:10 -0500
>the priorities system. Do people have a preference (silly question
>asking if people have an opinion ;)?
>
>The only system I have used is the prioroties and I find it a bit to
>"stepped".

Agreed, which is why I prefer the points system.

First, if you adopt it, I recommend you first go through all the edges and
flaws and decide if you want them. Also, drop the Bonus Attribute Point,
Bonus Skill Point, and Bonus Force Point Edges, as those (i Think) are
intended for modifying Priority characters. (The Bonus Attribute can be
real munchkin if you don't prevent it)

The following edges require close GM watching:

1) Aptitude (I like the "don't allow for Combat/decking/rigging/magic
skills" rule)
2) Day Job (Basically it's poorly defined, so the GM has to define it)
3) Hunted (the Players can get a lot of points for it, but if you follow the
rule, it ends up killing your plot [or them]. Best used (except for the
lowest level) only as a campaign device.)
4) Police Record (it's worth a lot of points, make sure it penalizes them a
lot. Once I spelled out what it did, none of my players elected to take it)
5) Flashbacks (at first, all my players took it. Once they found out, they
stopped [good group] but watch for it in your group.

In play, the system has worked out....The players tend to take fewer
resources and more attributes overall. Also, since the system was designed
with the More Metahumans rule, The Metahuman characters are cheaper.

I found the shapeshifters to be pretty cheesy....I allow them only if a
player can give a good description of their motivations. If he fails to get
the proper bestial attitude, no go.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:42:59 -0005
On 13 Feb 97 at 13:09, Brett Borger wrote:

> Agreed, which is why I prefer the points system.
Echo that.
>
> First, if you adopt it, I recommend you first go through all the edges
> and flaws and decide if you want them. Also, drop the Bonus Attribute
> Point, Bonus Skill Point, and Bonus Force Point Edges, as those (i Think)
> are intended for modifying Priority characters. (The Bonus Attribute can
> be real munchkin if you don't prevent it)
A point of note here. AFAI understand it, to get both the increased
racial maximum and the bonus point when using the point based system,
would cost a total of 4 BP per attribute. And this may only be done once
per attribute.

>
> The following edges require close GM watching:
>
> 1) Aptitude (I like the "don't allow for Combat/decking/rigging/magic
> skills" rule)
For Combat skills, computer, sorcery and conjuring I upped the cost to 3
BP. That's something nice about the point system. If you think something
comes too cheep for the campaign you have in mind, change the point costs.

> 2) Day Job (Basically it's poorly defined, so the GM has to
> define it)
Poorly defined and badly mangled. Among other things, this is not a
Flaw, it's an Edge and those point values should be positive numbers not
negative.

3) Hunted (the Players can get a lot of points for it, but if
> you follow the rule, it ends up killing your plot [or them]. Best used
> (except for the lowest level) only as a campaign device.)
Hell... so do extra enemies they way it's worded. Read the section on
enemies carefully. It makes it difficult if not impossible to get rid of
ANY enemy. The way I use it, Extra Enemey gives you a Rank 1 enemy.
Hunted gives you high Rank Enemies. Just how aggressive they actually are
depends on what rating motivation you give them.

>4) Police Record (it's worth a lot of points, make sure it penalizes them a lot.
> Once I spelled out what it did, none of my players elected to take it)
This one made little sense to me. If you are SINless, why would you
bother reporting to a parole officer? I changed it to three levels.
Ex-con for 2 points, you get the parole officer and can't legal own
weapons or restricted cyberware. Petty criminal for 4 pts, there are
warrants out for you, but for minor theft, vandalism, and other minor
crimes. Lone Star isn't going to work hard to find you. And Felon for 6
pts, which means you made the LS drek list. Probably wanted for or in
connection to murder(s), organized crime, etc.

>
> I found the shapeshifters to be pretty cheesy....I allow them only if a
> player can give a good description of their motivations. If he fails to
> get the proper bestial attitude, no go.
Requiring a good concept for any character isn't a bad idea before you
allow them to spend a single point. If a player comes up with a really
terrific and creative concept I might even give them a few extra BP. On
the other hand, players who refuse to come up with a concept of anykind
might discover they have fewer BP to work with.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 5
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Limiting Starting Characters (Sort of)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:22:06 +0100
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:44:47 -0500, Jamie Keane (Screaming In Digital)
wrote:

>I've used the point-based system. Granted, the
>generation process takes a little longer, but I've noticed that the
>characters are much more well-rounded and balanced, stat-wise.
>
>Jamie

Once more, I must oppose ... I prefer the priority-based system.
But, to make it clear, I myself first make up my PCs background
(and I encourage my players to do so, too), so that I know what
skills, attributes, equipment s/he must have and which s/he can
have.
After that - which takes rater long, of course - I use the
priority-system to "buy" all these. Then I may have some Nuyen
and skill or attribute points to spend ... I myself don't, usually.
So as a result, I've got a character with some personality, with
equipment, and perhaps with some money. But it's a character very
well rounded, IMHO, and it's generation took some time. And since
s/he can't have anything not backed with his/her background it's
very well balanced, too.

So in short: you can also use standard chargen rules to make
good and balanced characters, and it takes you some time.
(But I still don't know SR compagnon's point-based system, so
this doesn't speak against that, but simply supports standard
chargen-rules.)

--
Arno
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