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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:52:51 -0500
I might have asked this before, but I can't recall the answers (I'm too
young to be getting senile...), so I'll ask again:

How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
(read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
nuyen value and Street Index...
What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
or what?
How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
Special Skill Vs Intelligence?
What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
definitely like stories.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
S'funny. All these years, I thought my anger and beserker rages were the
animal side of my nature that I had to fight in order to remain human.
But watching Volk run off with a pack of wolves made me remember that
animals kill only for survival. They don't kill out of anger or
vengeance. Maybe what I've really been fighting is my human nature. The
cruelest, most unnatural beast on the face of the Earth, the one most
likely to destroy everything... is man.
-Logan AKA "Wolverine"
"Heart of the Beast"
Wolverine Annual '97
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:27:49 -0400
At 05:52 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I might have asked this before, but I can't recall the answers (I'm too
>young to be getting senile...), so I'll ask again:

Never to young have senior moments!

>How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
>talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
>to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
>(read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

Got a player who's PC is an adept and follows Dog. I just gave him a dog,
didn't bother much with stats or cost or anything. All it's done so far is
growl a bit (when *I*, the GM, needed to send a subtle message) and drooled
on some of the other PCs.

Considering most of the adventures so far (for him anyway) have required
travel, the dog hasn't factored in once. It may in the future though,
we'll see.

Erik J.
Message no. 3
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:25:04 EDT
In a message dated 8/26/1998 5:58:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

>
> How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
> nuyen value and Street Index...

Ah, but I would treat them as being at least Street Index of 2 or 3,
especially if you wanted something rare, paranormal, dangerous, or just
outright pricey in any other environment.

> What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
> or what?

No, I get a good nutrition spell, and let the guy loose on the badguys once in
a while for some real meat ;)

> How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
> Special Skill Vs Intelligence?

Oh no, get some good Animal Communication spellcraft going in my case, and
when that becomes too limiting, start getting Free Spirits, KARMA, and Ritual
Magic involved to elevate the intelligence to more than just a number for game
mechanics and perception tests (ie (not the immortal kind ;) : make it
intelligence a "Sentience" attribute).

> What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
> definitely like stories.


You've heard the couple running loose on the "Kray and Buffy" saga. Which
recently has only gotten worse, as now they have the "Work Loa" involved even
more heavily, and that damn dual natured anaconda was given an Increase
Reflexes spell.... ;P

-K (who actually doesn't turn Kray loose on the badguys, they taste too bad
... what with all that cyberware they've usually got, horrid on the dental
care...what?!? You mean you don't take your friend (never say "pet" in it's
presence :P) Barghest-that's-bigger-than-a-house to the Vet??? Shame on you
:)
Message no. 4
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:19:23 +0000
and thus did Nexx speak on 26 Aug 98 at 17:52:

> I might have asked this before, but I can't recall the answers (I'm too
> young to be getting senile...), so I'll ask again:

You're never too young to get senile :).
I wonder how many people got the little word joke you placed in your
subject (I did, but I have a floppy head :) ).

> How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
> talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
> to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
> (read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

First don't forget that they can be an outright pain and hassle. Here
in Dublin most of the contracts to rent houses and apartments forbid
pets and they're cleaning up loose running horses in the outskirts of
town too. There are probably laws restricting private ownership of
certain (read, useful in combat) critters. Plus the awakened critters
haven't been domesticated by humans. I think they should be as rare
as people who have pythons or trained a wild wolf today.

> How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
> nuyen value and Street Index...

Depends a lot on the critter. There seems to be a fair demand for
hell hounds, but I can imagine that they are restricted to security
only. Maybe 3000 Y for one of those to far more for a Piasma (holy
sh$t what are you planning to do with a piasma??!!)

> What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
> or what?

I would make they upkeep cost "guest" * (critter's body / 3) 3 being
the human average.

> How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
> Special Skill Vs Intelligence?

special skills: animal training and animal empathy. Training to learn
the critter commands, empathy to become "chums".

> What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
> definitely like stories.

Hmm on the risk of being boo-ed of the list for giving an ED story
(like I'd be bothered by that anyway) here is the only example /
story I got:

I had a windling wizard who had a Zoak (hawk/bat combo). The moment
he got that critter he would spend most of his day playing, training
with him. I spend the next couple of adventures raising his skills in
animal training and empathy, although his tendencies to be carried of
by an unco-operative Zoak when he was needed most became legendary.
The other PC's begged him to get rid of the critter, but he wouldn't
hear of it and kept perfecting his "Diving Swoop of Doom" and other
arial acrobatics and gave the Zoak always the first choice of food
before eating himself. He even convinced the obsidiman to construct a
landing platform on his head as a helmet, causing numerous crashes in
the back of his head or overshoots. Three months of training finally
paid off when he managed to kill of two ork raiders in one swoop
(with very lucky rolls I admit). Since then the rest treated the Zoak
with more respect, specially when it continued to be responsible for
an inextrodinairy amount of damage and lucky kills when everything
looked very dark. Eventually the Zoak had to be put on a diet since
everyone now fed it morsels of food for good luck :).
The pair is still alive and well and are now semi-retired to a career
of show-flying and magic.

Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 5
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:56:34 -0400
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Nexx wrote:

->How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
<snip chihuahua>
->How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
->nuyen value and Street Index...

In my campaign, the PCs would have to catch one and train it
themselves. I doubt any fixer's gonna try to "corner the market" on
Metabears or Hellhounds. And the legal security agencies aren't going to
sell one to the runners, period. Can the runners steal one? Sure......
but let's see it obey anyone.

->What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
->or what?

I qualified them as "guests" for my players, depending on body
size & feed types/quantity. For Instance: A piasma is two people due to
size and diet.

->How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
->Special Skill Vs Intelligence?

There is a skill in "COrporate Security" called "Animal handling
and Training" that is used. I run it as an opposed test: Skill vs.
Animal's willpower, Animal's Intelligence vs. Character's Charisma. There
is also a phys-ad power called "Animal Control" (Maybe not in any of the
books, but I have it in my home-rules) that pits the Phys-ad's charisma
directly against the animal's intelligence.
Just as a general note: Don't allow critters with an intelligence
of 4 or better be trained. They are smart enough to decide whether or not
to do what they're being asked to do.

->What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
->definitely like stories.

Only one story and I'll give it the brief version. My wife's
playing a physad with the above Animal Control power. Her character is
running a business training and selling trained paranaturals to
corporations (using Shadowbeat's Music rules to determine how her business
does). In the last adventure (which we are STILL not finished with) her
house caught on fire and she had to save her animals and get them five
miles across town to a quickly-set-up warehouse to store the animals. The
trip was a riot.... almost literally.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 6
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my! -Reply
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:56:59 -0400
>How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give
>Piasma's a nuyen value and Street Index...
>What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the
>lifestyle rules,or what?
>How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal
>spells? Special Skill Vs Intelligence?
>What good stories do you have about them? I like stories,
>definitely, definitely like stories.
In my experience any exoctic doesn't count as a guest.
An animal like a tiger or bear, is going to require alot of
raw meat everyday. That's far more expensive then your
human house guest. I usually say anywhere from 250-1000
a day depending. Training....I'd go with a special skill, but
magic can definently help in this area. It also depends on the
type of animal. After spending time training...I may use something
like a animal willpower vs player skill test, to see how well
the animal performs or somesuch. Good stories....
At the moment the only one that comes to mind is a complete
side adventure that nearly resulted when the players made
a detour to a circus, and the shark shaman wanted to
free the megladon. It almost go ugly. :)
That's my .02 cents, I'll add stuff later when the caffine kicks in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 331-1159
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 7
From: Ryan Bolduan <emeottrw@***.MRS.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:56:32 -0500
In his last message Nexx <nexx@********.NET> wrote:

--
How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
to have trained aanimals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
(read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
nuyen value and Street Index...
What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per they count as
"guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
or what?
How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal
spells?Special Skill Vs Intelligence?
What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
definiteely like stories.
--

I had a player in the last game I ran ask for the same thing. We only
dealt with dogs, and seeing how he was a trainer, I just trusted him on
costs. He figured out exxatly how much it cost him to raise his dogs and
spent an equal amout of nuyen. I did have to write up some rules on
animal training. You can find those rules at:

http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw/sr/srrules.html

They work, they're not pretty, but they work.


Talk to you later!!

/> Duct tape is like the force, it has a light and
/< a dark side and it binds the universe together.
O[\\\\\\(O):::<===============================================-
\<
\> -- Ryan Bolduan
emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:53:31 -0500
----------
> From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>

> haven't been domesticated by humans. I think they should be as rare
> as people who have pythons or trained a wild wolf today.

Never said they wouldn't be rare...

> > How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
> > nuyen value and Street Index...
>
> Depends a lot on the critter. There seems to be a fair demand for
> hell hounds, but I can imagine that they are restricted to security
> only. Maybe 3000 Y for one of those to far more for a Piasma (holy
> sh$t what are you planning to do with a piasma??!!)

Well, it was just an example. I remember reading that some people had
managed to train piasmas, and it seemed to fit well in the sentence.

<cut the Zoak story>

ROFLMAOTCMP

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
"The Kelti said of themselves that they did not lie, but they sometimes
took a very long way around in getting to the truth, with frequent stops
at interesting spots along the way."
-Morgan Llywelyn "The Horse Goddess"
Message no. 9
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:32:02 -0500
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:27:49 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 05:52 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
<SNIP>
>>How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
>>talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually
want
>>to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the
carpet
>>(read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

>Got a player who's PC is an adept and follows Dog. I just gave him a
dog,
>didn't bother much with stats or cost or anything. All it's done so far
is
>growl a bit (when *I*, the GM, needed to send a subtle message) and
drooled
>on some of the other PCs.
>
>Considering most of the adventures so far (for him anyway) have required
>travel, the dog hasn't factored in once. It may in the future though,
>we'll see.
>
>Erik J.

Hey ... this kind of sounds like the Dependent Flaw ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 10
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:26:52 -0400
Nexx <nexx@********.NET> said:
> ...
> How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
> talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
> to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
> (read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...

My mage has an inhabiting iron puma familiar named Dark Fur. Not exactly
a pet in the classic sense, but I'll give you a few specific answer
anyways.

> How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
> nuyen value and Street Index...

My puma cost 15 Karma for the ally part, 100knY for 3 identical bodies
(in case two get destroyed), and a couple thousand on the side for misc
expenses (travel to artist, enchanting materials to turn the bodies into
spirit foci). It took 2 months to have the bodies made, and a few weeks
more for the Spirit focus design and enchanting.

In general, I'd say use modern day prices for normal pets. You can
probably pick up a dog or cat off the street or from the Pound for
free, or you can pay several thousand dollars for a purebred animal
with a pedigree and lots of training.

For awakened critters, I'd recommend a Shadowrun to get them. But
perhaps allow them for 10knY or more at a street index of 2 or so.
Availability shouldn't be all that high (say 8), but time could be
considerable (say 2 weeks). This represents finding someone with
the contacts to locate the critter and capture it for you.

> What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle rules,
> or what?

Being an homonculus (basically a spirit inhabiting a statue), he doesn't
eat or need kitty litter. He doesn't have any upkeep. He has human
intelligence, so he doesn't sharpen his claws on furniture or break
things by playing with them.

For any small normal critter, I'd include it in the lifestyle costs.
For bigger normal things, go with real-world costs (mainly for food and
other significant expenses). And for awakened critters, start with the
closest real-world equivalent, then add an extra 100% or so for real
food (instead of soy), a better vet (who knows what to give a Hell Hound
for fleas), and things like that.

> How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
> Special Skill Vs Intelligence?

My ally does whatever I tell him to. :-)

For other critters, it's a matter of training and critter intelligence.
Compare critter Int to known critters (dogs, cats, pigs, horses, dolphins,
etc.), and take into account social attitudes. Social critters with dog
intelligence can learn tricks like dogs. Solitary animals don't learn
tricks well.

For a dangerous awakened animal, I'd HIGHLY recommend finding one as a
baby and raising / training it personally.

> What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
> definitely like stories.

I have a girlfriend decker who erases the notes that Customs people make
in their "suspicious activities" database every time I leave or enter
Seattle. After all, there aren't any taxes on an iron puma "statue", but
people just don't drive around with them.

I had to register Dark Fur as a "service animal" to give him some sort
of legal status. My PC is a Tir Tairngire elven mage, and it seemed
reasonable that Tir Tairngire would allow magical "service animals"
given their love of all things magical.

My PC has a heavily modified Ford Americar with a large bucket passenger
seat and storage where the rear seats used to be. Dark Fur always gets
the large bucket seat, any other PCs or passengers get to lie down in
the storage area. "Where does a 800 pound iron puma sit? Anywhere he
wants to."

I used to leave Dark Fur in the car all the time, because he would
attract too much attention if he got out. He made a great car alarm.
The car was armored and had a decent security system, so Dark Fur
was "internal security". I had to have the security system modified
so he could get in by himself.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 11
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:28:49 -0500
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:52:51 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>I might have asked this before, but I can't recall the answers (I'm too
>young to be getting senile...), so I'll ask again:
>
>How does everyone handle characters with Critters in game? I'm not
>talking about your samurai's pet chihuahua, but people who actually want
>to have trained animals that are good for more than peeing on the carpet
>(read, role-playing potential). A few specific questions...
>
>How much do they cost? After all, they don't exactly give Piasma's a
>nuyen value and Street Index...
>What about upkeep? Do they count as "guests" as per the lifestyle
rules,
>or what?

This sounds good but I might reccomend something variable based off of
the critter's body modified for special needs (ie, dietary requirements
or vulnerbilities/allergies) ... How about Body^2 *20 per month? Plus
GM's discretion on special costs (ie, a pet that was extremely allergic
to Sunlight might require extensive modifications to the place of
residence (read: Lifestyle multiplier [if rented] and/or expensive
contract work [if bought owned])

>How do you control them, aside from the obvious control animal spells?
>Special Skill Vs Intelligence?

Why not use Special Skill (Animal Handling defaults from Charisma) and
use comprehension tests from R2 using Intelligence as the Pilot rating
and adding mods according to the social skill table?

>What good stories do you have about them? I like stories, definitely,
>definitely like stories.
>
>***************
>Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
<SNIP Sig>

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 12
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lions and Tigers and Birdmen, oh my!
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:33:08 EDT
In a message dated 8/27/98 3:27:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mooreb@****.FAC.COM writes:

> You can
> probably pick up a dog or cat off the street or from the Pound for
> free, or you can pay several thousand dollars for a purebred animal
> with a pedigree and lots of training.

In LA or maybe San Fransisco they have the first of an exclusive hotel sytle
animal adoption facility. Imagine an advanced care facility complete wioth
sound reduction panels and nice plush rooms for each animal. The idea is that
in a pound situation, the animals become tramatized and pick up such bad
habits as barking and living in their own filith. (Which I have seen happen)

Its really nice, and according to the program I saw they are adopting a lot of
animals. I can only imagine the cost is really high to adopt an animal from
this facility. I imagine that type of animal adoption would be common for the
corporate types.

-Bandit

Further Reading

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