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Message no. 1
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:54:25 -0400
Greetings -n- Salutations,

I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a Skill.
If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language sill?


Just curious,
-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
Message no. 2
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:04:28 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aristotle" <antithesis@**********.com>
To: "ShadowRN (E-mail)" <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 8:54 AM
Subject: Lip Reading?


> Greetings -n- Salutations,
>
> I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a Skill.
> If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language sill?
>
>
> Just curious,
> -- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle

Lip Reading would be a Knowledge skill.

How to use it, you would roll the Lip Reading skill normally and use the
same language the other person is speaking in (if you have it) as a
complimentary skill.

-Mike
SYSOP - Hoosier Hacker House (Herc)
http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com
Message no. 3
From: Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 06:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:54:25 -0400, Aristotle wrote:

>I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a Skill.
>If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language sill?

Skill, and active. You would only be able to lipread one language with the base skill.
Additional languages could be
purchased, but I would make the karma cost for 2nd to n languages cheaper. You must also
know the language to be able to
lipread it.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
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ICQ: 38158540
Message no. 4
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:43:59 +0200
From: "Oliver McDonald" <oliver@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Lip Reading?

> Skill, and active. You would only be able to lipread one language with
the base skill. Additional languages could be
> purchased, but I would make the karma cost for 2nd to n languages cheaper.
You must also know the language to be able to
> lipread it.

What if you think the man is talking english, but he's actually talking
german or something? Would you misinterpert, or would you know he's talking
a different language? Can you tell what language it is like you can tell
when you hear one by the accent? Also, standard perception modifiers apply
for lip reading, I assume.

-Nimster
Message no. 5
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:54:26 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimster" <nimster@*********.net.il>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Lip Reading?


> From: "Oliver McDonald" <oliver@*********.com>
> Subject: Re: Lip Reading?
>
> > Skill, and active. You would only be able to lipread one language with
> the base skill. Additional languages could be
> > purchased, but I would make the karma cost for 2nd to n languages
cheaper.
> You must also know the language to be able to
> > lipread it.
>
> What if you think the man is talking english, but he's actually talking
> german or something? Would you misinterpert, or would you know he's
talking
> a different language? Can you tell what language it is like you can tell
> when you hear one by the accent? Also, standard perception modifiers apply
> for lip reading, I assume.
>
> -Nimster

Perhaps when performing lip reading, the viewer needs to know the language,
if they don't, then I guess the GM can have a lot of fun with the character
especially if the languages resemble each other closely (dialects and lingo
would play hell with this character).

I agree, standard perception modifiers would also apply.

Also, if the character is lip reading someone who is speaking about
something very technical, the GM could allow the character to roll the
appropriate tech skill rather than a language. I would allow this only if
the lip reader also knew the language that was being spoken at the same
skill rating as the person doing the talking.

-Mike
SYSOP - Hoosier Hacker House (Herc)
http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:29:53 +0200
According to Aristotle, at 9:54 on 15 Aug 00, the word on the street
was...

> I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a Skill.
> If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language sill?

A skill, as it's something you learn and not something you just can do
(which, IMHO, most edges represent). As for knowledge or active skill, I'd
say knowledge, because lipreading is mostly mental effort and not
something you do yourself. Now if there were a skill Move Lips To Aid
Lipreaders, that might be active :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 7
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 07:58:41 EDT
In a message dated 8/15/00 9:55:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
antithesis@**********.com writes:

<< I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a
Skill.
If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language sill? >>


Boy you don't kid around with your questions do ya?!? Me personally, I'd say
skill because it can be learned and even forgotten like a skill. I picked it
up once because I had a friend who wasn't very vocal of a morning and so had
problems communicating but when I stopped hanging around there I became not
quite as good as it. As for which, I'd say Knowledge or Language but it would
be hard to decide which...
Message no. 8
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:25:28 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Lip Reading?


> On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:54:25 -0400, Aristotle wrote:
>
> >I just had one quick question. Would "Lip Reading" be an Edge or a
Skill.
> >If it would be a skill would it be an Active, Knowledge, or Language
sill?
>
> Skill, and active. You would only be able to lipread one language with
the base skill. Additional languages could be
> purchased, but I would make the karma cost for 2nd to n languages cheaper.
You must also know the language to be able to
> lipread it.
>
We were thinking, (My wife and I) that it would be a knowledge type of
skill. The number of languages that you could use it with would depend on
when you learned to lip read.

If I spoke several languages, then deicded to lip read, then I would
probably have to learn them seperatly, UNLESS I was in a position where I
spoke multiple languages all the time.
IE: If I was leaning to lip read from someone who was using English to
teach me, but I was also using Spanish a lot, I would tend to learn to lip
read Spanish as well.

If, a few years later, I decided to learn annother language, if I was doing
it face to face then the lipping would come naturally. But if from a tape,
I would have to learn it seperatly. (Well, when I got face to face with
someone anyway)

Well, our thoughts anyway.

Annachie
Message no. 9
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Lip Reading?
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:12:34 +0200
<snip>

> Well, our thoughts anyway.
>

The problem with that is, that it's too backgroundish. The background of how
he learned it, when and why should be left to the player/GM. You can't rule
on it. It'll be too complicated. No rule so far relies on certain background
choices, neither does this (I mean, you don't have a rule stating: If the
character learned guns by tape, he needs *1.5 points for it). Anyway it
should be a knowledge skill, and that's all. The rest is left to the player
to decide

-Nimster

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