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Message no. 1
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:18:46 -0400
Wildfire wrote:

> Dave Mowbray wrote:
> <snip incedianary device>
>
> Yes, it's been hashed over serveral times which degraded into screaming matches
> and GridSecs having to step in. There's a whole lot about the subject on the
> Archives at www.jackpoint.com, IIRC.
>
> Wildfire

However, if everyone who involves themselves keeps their tempers under control,
I believe that this has the possibility to be a discussion relevant to the way
Shadowrun is played. As a member of Dave Mowbray's group (and one of those who
sometimes scream, but by no means the worst), I think that this is one of the areas
where the group determines the style of play. In our group, some want the games to
be action movies, with themselves in the roles of the stars (and try to drag the GM
and others towards that goal), while others want the game to be more cerebral, and
still others have their own style which no one on earth can determine. I ain't
gonna say any more (No Rabid Woodchucks for me, at least for now), just this: Just
because at some point in the past people got outta hand on a particular topic,
doesn't mean that they will this time. I've joined another SR list, and I caught
myself saying "Don't talk about x" when x came up because on this list it got
out
of control with flames flying back and forth. Discussion is the key to a list, and
if you don't talk about something because it caused an argument last time, then
eventually there won't be ANY discussion. Maybe that's why the traffic on the list
is so slow, lately.
Not to be snide, but I think everyone's gun-shy. They don't want to start
something which might cause trouble a few weeks down the line. So I'm gonna ask a
question, which probably will get me in trouble, but I'm gonna as it to prove a
point:

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

*Strago stands up, puts his hand on his hips, and glares at the list. "What'cha
gonna do now?"*
Message no. 2
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:16:45 -0700
At 04:18 PM 9/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Wildfire wrote:
>
> > Dave Mowbray wrote:
> > <snip incedianary device>
> >
> > Yes, it's been hashed over serveral times which degraded into screaming
> matches
> > and GridSecs having to step in. There's a whole lot about the subject
> on the
> > Archives at www.jackpoint.com, IIRC.
> >
> > Wildfire
>
> However, if everyone who involves themselves keeps their tempers
> under control,
>I believe that this has the possibility to be a discussion relevant to the way
>Shadowrun is played. As a member of Dave Mowbray's group (and one of those who
>sometimes scream, but by no means the worst), I think that this is one of
>the areas
>where the group determines the style of play. In our group, some want the
>games to
>be action movies, with themselves in the roles of the stars (and try to
>drag the GM
>and others towards that goal), while others want the game to be more
>cerebral, and
>still others have their own style which no one on earth can determine.

I agree here, it depends on the group. I've been in both types of
campaigns and each has there merits, i admit i prefer more cinematic stuff
since it has that certain flair.


>How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

4.7869 lbs per hours, if daylight savings is in effect.
Message no. 3
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:39:47 -0400
lomion wrote:

> At 04:18 PM 9/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >Wildfire wrote:
> >
> > > Dave Mowbray wrote:
> > > <snip incedianary device>
>

<snip me>

>
> > However, if everyone who involves themselves keeps their tempers
> > under control,
> >I believe that this has the possibility to be a discussion relevant to the way
> >Shadowrun is played.

Correct. I personally thought to enjoy the discussion the first (and second) time
it came around, and it did start out interesting, but quickly degraded into a "My
opinion is better than your opinion" thing.

To the Gridsecs:
I think we're gonna try to discuss this nicely. If it gets to the point where
people are being irate, please kill the thread.

Okay, saying that, when we played, it wasn't very real. The characters were the
heroes, they had strong moral ties. There were no runs which involved assisnation,
and no kidnapping (some extraction, but the side of right and wrong were well
defined, it was always a rescue). We wanted to have fun, and making it too real
would defeat the purpose for us. Real life was boring and/or depressing. It was
an escape from reality, and Shadowrun, by far, was one of the more "real" games
we
played. We at least tried to keep it somewhat dark, and within the FASA
atmosphere/timeline. Bad things happened, but not constantly, and usually quite
toned down from what other people have said goes on in their games.

Wildfire
Message no. 4
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:48:48 -0400
Strago was dumb enough to ask:

> How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
>
> *Strago stands up, puts his hand on his hips, and glares at the list. "What'cha
> gonna do now?"*

What am I going to do? Welll....

*Scene: A dimly lit bar...somewhere in Asbury Park, during the 1970s. A guy in a
leather jacket gets up and moves over to Strago. He's about 6'9", at LEAST 300 pounds
of muscle. "You asked about WOODCHUCKS again? I told you last time you'd be in pain
the
next time you asked that." He then puts a hand under his jacket, and...in the blink
of
an eye, you see a very blurry form, which resembles a...

####### # ###### ####### !
##### # # # # # # !
#### # # # # # # !
## ##### ##### ###### !
# # # # # # !
## # # # # # !

And Strago goes DOWN.

"I told you not to mention that."*

Yes, probably an ameteurish attempt at it, but it gets the point across....:)

John
Message no. 5
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:56:44 -0700
>To the Gridsecs:
>I think we're gonna try to discuss this nicely. If it gets to the point where
>people are being irate, please kill the thread.

Of that you can be QUITE certain.

Play nice, and share your toys.

--
Dvixen - dvixen@****.com =-=-= Gallery - http://members.home.com/dvixen
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.
Message no. 6
From: The Phantom phantom023@*******.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:03:33 GMT
>From: Strago <strago@***.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: shadowrn@*********.org
>Subject: Lot's o' Talk about Realism.
<snip>
I've found that realism gets into to many, "That's not the way it happens in
reality!" arguments during games. Times when two people stand up and mime
the actions and try to explain why something will work (usually, though,
this happened during sessions of a game sounding suspicially like Truncheons
and Wagons). I try to run games with a level of realism with' the idea
still around that iht is just a game and certains laws of physics and
reality will have to be suspended to advance my plotline. I see it as a
different form of free form cinema (did that make sense?). Sometimes things
aren't realistic just because this is a game, and realism arguments last
forever and detract from the enjoyment, which is why we play games in the
first place, right? Whether cerebral or bloodbath (my games are a mixture
of both, it's a 'can't have one without the other' feeling I live with).

>How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

European or North American

>*Strago stands up, puts his hand on his hips, and glares at the list.
>"What'cha
>gonna do now?"*
Cry. Cry. Cry.
>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Phantom~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A decker with a shotgun beats four aces anyday."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Message no. 7
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:13:35 EDT
In a message dated 9/28/99 13:19:43 Pacific Daylight Time, strago@***.com
writes:

> Not to be snide, but I think everyone's gun-shy. They don't want to
start
> something which might cause trouble a few weeks down the line. So I'm
gonna
> ask a
> question, which probably will get me in trouble, but I'm gonna as it to
> prove a
> point:
>
> How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
>
> *Strago stands up, puts his hand on his hips, and glares at the list.
"What'
> cha
> gonna do now?"*

Starrngr shudders and dives for the cover of Gurth's stairs...
Message no. 8
From: Ignacio De Lucas morrisjila@*******.com
Subject: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:28:18 GMT
>From: Wildfire <Wildfire@*************.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: shadowrn@*********.org
>Subject: Re: List Discussion (was Re: Realism)
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:39:47 -0400
>
Okay, saying that, when we played, it wasn't very real. The characters were
the
>heroes,

Hey whats wrong whit heroes (joke) no really, being a hero is fun. Our
curret run is trying to save Aztlan and posibly the world. of course we have
a demigod in the party but thats another story. But even heroes get into
trouble, belive me we have. But i insist if everything is a peace of cake
then IMHO it loses a litle bit of emotion, our GM put us to the limit. When
ever one of the character is about to die and everybody is moving heaven and
earth to save him, or that saving single succes at target 24(exageration)
rolls in the dice and saves the day its really thrilling, and with dakness
and all some of the players have died or our contacts or buddies, so it
gives the characters purpose to go on. JUST AS IN A MOVIE.


ATTE el MORRIS

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