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Message no. 1
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 11:43:46 +0100
Shane Courtrille said on 20 Jan 96...

> Would someone post a list of ALL ShadowRun Sourcebooks (2nd Edition)? (Not
> adventures)

Here goes... I can't ensure that it's complete, but it should be very
close. This does not include the ones that are out of print or for 1st
edition only, though.

The ratings I used are as follows:

++ = must buy
+ = OK
~ = average
- = buy if you must
-- = avoid
? = I haven't seen this

Shadowrun Second Edition main rules (soft cover) ++
DMZ - (SR boardgame)
Germany Sourcebook (English edition) ~ (+ if your campaign is set in
Germany)
Deutschland In Den Schatten (German edition of previous) + (German skill
of 1 or higher required :)
Awakenings ~? (= I've only seen a test version...)
Seattle Sourcebook + (unless your campaign is not in Seattle)
Denver: TheCity Of Shadows (box set with 2 books and maps) + (++ if you
want a campaign in Denver)
Shadowbeat ~ (info on the media)
Rigger Black Book ~ (+ if you need vehicles)
Corporate Shadowfiles + (only if you need info on how corps work)
Aztlan ?
Tir Tairngire + (data on the elven nation)
Tir na nOg + (ditto)
Fields Of Fire + (gear and optional rules)
Paranormal Animals of North America + (- if you don't want more critters)
Corporate Security Handbook ~ (info on how security forces think)
Street Samurai Catalog, 2nd Edition + (gear)
The Neo-Anarchists' Guide To Real Life + (what you need to know about
society in the 2050s)
Paranormal Animals of Europe + (see PAONA)
Cybertechnology + (++ if you need cyberware and extra rules for it)
Virtual Realities 2.0 ++ (decking no longer sucks with this book :)
Sprawl Sites ~ (the maps an contacts are +, the rest is -)
Shadowtech + (see Cybertech, plus also has bioware)
Native American Nations Volume One + (adventure + info on the NAN)
Native American Nations Volume Two ? (same as previous)
Lone Star ++ (the cops)
The Grimoire, 2nd Edition + (essential for magician characters)
Bug City ++ (if you need a campaign that is not typically SR)
Sprawl Maps -- (rubbish, unless you like DMZ _a_lot_)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The world is scratching at my door.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 11:13:33 -0800 (PST)
I'd rate Awakenings at ++, Atzlan at ++ and NAN2 at ~ or -. Rationale:
Both Awakenings and Atzlan are well-written and are fascinating just to
read. They've become indispensible to my campaign already, altho' my
players have no desire to play physmags. Oh well. Anyway, NAN2 was only
mediocre in its writing, and the subject matter didn't help either. A
book about the less influential nations seems to be doomed from the
start, IMO. The only use I found was for providing interesting
backgrounds for NPC's. But I suppose others would find it indispensible
to their campaign.


The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
Message no. 3
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:49:07 -0600
Thought I'd give my scan on a few of these books :)

Magic Oriented (if you plan to use magic at all, you'll need both)
Awakenings: ++
Grimoire II: ++
Cyber Oriented
Street Samurai Catalog: ~ Terribly done, but has some essential info.
If you
can make do with the back of SRII and a few
words from
the 'net then don't buy it.
Shadowtech: + Well done, great stuff. Could use an SRII
version.
Cybertechnology: ++ One of FASA's best. Must have for serious cyber.
Places (depending on your interest in each area, could be better or worse)
Aztlan: + I love Aztlan, it's a good read but lacks in game
information
Bug City: ++ First of FASA's new-style sourcebooks. Worth it.
Seattle: - Pitifully done, like the London and Germany
books.
You'd be better off making your own.
Denver: ++ Best done old-style book for SR. If only
they'd done
this with Seattle.
NAN: - Reminiscent of the Seattle book, but not as
mandatory
to most campaigns.
Others
Fields of Fire: + Good perspective of mercenary life. A few
items of interest.
Corporate Security: ++ Must-have if your runners are going against
the top dogs.
Lone Star: ++ Must-have. They're the cops. Decently done.
NAGRL: ++ Describes life in the 2050's better than any
book.
Virtual Realities 2.0: ++ You want to deck, you gotta have the manual.
Corporate Shadowfiles: -- A book only lawyer could love.

What could easily solve most of the problems is five-year updates to most
products. A UCAS update would include a great deal of info on DC and
Chicago and Seattle. A NAN update would make the place actually interesting
(what have those guys been up to anyway?). Denver is ever-changing as is,
would be nice to know what's gone on there. An armorer's update could
include new weapons as well as better descriptions on the old (not to
mention updated availabilities, costs, and options). A street clinic update
would include info on the state of the art of cyber and bioware.

I dunno. I just want to see something happen. FASA has been making great
strides with it's new material and I'd like to see them update the old stuff
to the new level.
Message no. 4
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:49:13 -0700 (MST)
To go with Gurth's list of Books he hasn't seen:

Aztlan ++ (about some very strange things in everyone's favorite nation)

Awakenings ~ (+ if you want Voudoun rules and new adept powers. It has
alot more SR universe shop talk and might be wotrh it if magic is
integral to your game(ie you have 2+ magicians)

NAN Vol.2 - (about the NAN nations in what was Canada. Has a module about
Chemical Warfare)
Message no. 5
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:19:41 +0100
I said on 21 Jan 96...

> > Would someone post a list of ALL ShadowRun Sourcebooks (2nd Edition)? (Not
> > adventures)
>
> Here goes... I can't ensure that it's complete, but it should be very
> close. This does not include the ones that are out of print or for 1st
> edition only, though.

I forgot Prime Runners, I see now. Although I also haven't actually held
it in my hands and read through it, I'd rate it as - to -- from what I've
read here. It contains powerful NPCs for GMs to build adventures around,
but most of the NPCs appear to be underpowered, flat, or both.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't we all think we're the exception?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:19:40 +0100
TopCat said on 21 Jan 96...

> Magic Oriented (if you plan to use magic at all, you'll need both)
> Awakenings: ++
> Grimoire II: ++

>From what I've seen about Awakenings, I'd say it's pretty handy if you're
not use to the SR magic system; if you have a few years' experience :) with
it, IMHO there's no real *need* to buy it.

> Cyber Oriented
> Street Samurai Catalog: ~ Terribly done, but has some essential info.
> If you
> can make do with the back of SRII and a few
> words from
> the 'net then don't buy it.

It was pretty good in SR1, but you're right, with 99% of the data in the
back of SR2, the SSC is rather worthless. The only real reason to buy it
would be that you get to know which accessories come with which weapons...

> Seattle: - Pitifully done, like the London and Germany
> books.
> You'd be better off making your own.

For those that don't know, most of it is descriptions of "locations" --
bars, malls, chop shops, Federated Boeing, etc. with a bit of background
on each of Seattle's districts. I thought it was pretty good for coming up
with specific places for PCs to go to (roll a D100 and look at the page you
rolled :)

> Corporate Security: ++ Must-have if your runners are going against
> the top dogs.

Most of the things in this, you can think up yourself if you think about
security inany logical manner. I'd keep it at ~.

> Corporate Shadowfiles: -- A book only lawyer could love.

I like it for telling exactly what corporations *do* to make money. It's
not very useful for running a game, but a good read.

> What could easily solve most of the problems is five-year updates to most
> products. [snip] (not to mention updated availabilities, costs, and options).

This would definitely be a good idea. I find it very unlikely that things
still have the same availability after 5 years, and that all the
businesses from 2050 are still running 7 years later.
Maybe something for NERPS: Underworld...?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't we all think we're the exception?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Justin Thomas <Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 10:46:46 -0600
At 03:46 PM 1/21/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Thought I'd give my scan on a few of these books :)
>
>Magic Oriented (if you plan to use magic at all, you'll need both)
> Awakenings: ++
> Grimoire II: ++
>Cyber Oriented
> Street Samurai Catalog: ~ Terribly done, but has some essential info.
>If you
> can make do with the back of SRII and a few
>words from
> the 'net then don't buy it.
> Shadowtech: + Well done, great stuff. Could use an SRII
>version.
> Cybertechnology: ++ One of FASA's best. Must have for serious
cyber.

lots of stuff snipped...

anywho everyone seems to be giving the denver box set a high rating... what
exactly is in the box set... a source book about denver I suppose, but what
else? new rules? spells? I really don't intend to campaine in denver so
what else useful would be in it...?

******************************
Justin Thomas
"Farr"
Email:
thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
or if that doesn't work
Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
Message no. 8
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:00:46 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Gurth wrote:

> I forgot Prime Runners, I see now. Although I also haven't actually held
> it in my hands and read through it, I'd rate it as - to -- from what I've
> read here. It contains powerful NPCs for GMs to build adventures around,
> but most of the NPCs appear to be underpowered, flat, or both.

I'd have to agree here. Even the powerful NPC's were a
disappointment, not nearly as complex as an actual chracter. It seems
that FASA took a quirk in each case and gave it stats to live. The only
concepts I liked were the snooty Brit decker, the Irish assasin, and the
wannabe runner.

The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
Message no. 9
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:10:17 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Justin Thomas wrote:
>
> anywho everyone seems to be giving the denver box set a high rating... what
> exactly is in the box set... a source book about denver I suppose, but what
> else? new rules? spells? I really don't intend to campaine in denver so
> what else useful would be in it...?
>

Lesse, there's a great section on how the Denver Data Haven works
(which will influence your players whether or not they go to Denver). But
there are two main reasons to get it even if you'll never play in Denver.
1)the FRFZ is one helluva twisted place politcally. You have six nations
playing for power in an area roughly near that of Seattle. Lots of ideas
for political manuvering.... 2)the small companion booklet. This is a
GM's booklet which explains some of the mysteries raised in the first
book (like the identity of Denver sysop Bash). The twist:there are three
possibilities raised by the writers (using Bash, he's either a
quadriplegic Matrix addict, a second/split personality of Shiva, or a
free spirit that found its way into the Matrix). Again, LOTS of twisted
ideas for games. I've used a large amount of the ideas presented in the
sourcebook.....

The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
Message no. 10
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:43:45 -0700 (MST)
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Gurth wrote:

> I forgot Prime Runners, I see now. Although I also haven't actually held
> it in my hands and read through it, I'd rate it as - to -- from what I've
> read here. It contains powerful NPCs for GMs to build adventures around,
> but most of the NPCs appear to be underpowered, flat, or both.

Please. That book is barely worth the paper it was written on, and barely
that if it weren't for the backgrounds that the characters have which can
make for an interesting trip granted you don't use the actual character
_and_ you are good at piecing together stray thoughts. I would give the
book a ---. Don't get it unless you can't come up with _ANY_ NPCs of your
own.
>
> --
>
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Don't we all think we're the exception?
Yes, but that's only because we are all different, we are similar.
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-
>
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Message no. 11
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:55:33 -0700 (MST)
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Justin Thomas wrote:
> lots of stuff snipped...
[What a coincidence]
>
> anywho everyone seems to be giving the denver box set a high rating... what
> exactly is in the box set... a source book about denver I suppose, but what
> else? new rules? spells? I really don't intend to campaine in denver so
> what else useful would be in it...?
It gives a pretty good idea of how the six nations that share the city
get along(which is to say not good.) It does have a nice history of the
city as it was destroyed during the Indian Wars and gives an idea of the
nation the sectors represent. It has some intersting Shadowtalk in it,
gives an introduction to the Otaku and makes Fastjack look _REALLY_ good
when he fries a sadistic and mean Shadowland SysOp.
>
>
****************************** > Justin Thomas
> "Farr"
> Email:
> thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
> or if that doesn't work
> Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
What do you do at UNM anyway?
Message no. 12
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:34:59 +0100
Justin Thomas said on 22 Jan 96...

> anywho everyone seems to be giving the denver box set a high rating... what
> exactly is in the box set... a source book about denver I suppose, but what
> else? new rules? spells? I really don't intend to campaine in denver so
> what else useful would be in it...?

If you don't want to play in Denver you can afford not to buy it, unless
you want to have your set of SR books complete :)
It contains a number of things:

*Players' book
*GM book(let)
*two security passes (out of 6 different)
*two maps (one of the city center, one of nearly all of Denver)

The players' book is set up much like the ones we all know (and
love/hate/are indifferent to) from previous country books like the NAGNA,
Tir Tairngire, and the Seattle Sourcebook. It provides quite good info on
Denver: the way it is now, how it came to be this way, descriptions of
each of the six sectors, etc.

The GM book contains prominent NPCs for use in Denver, as well as more
locations ("shadow" locations) and a system for making Denver as deadly as
you want it to be -- each location and NPC has three "descriptions" the GM
deciding which one to use, and each is nastier than the previous :)
Also in this book are rules for travel around the world in general, and
North America in particular, currencies, how the Denver area is guarded,
black market stuff, and a bit more.

As for the maps, they're nice although I would have liked to see the big
map show all of Denver and the small map to be the city center, not the
reverse as is the case now.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't we all think we're the exception?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:34:59 +0100
Now, to be really complete with this list, here's the net.sourcebooks
that I'm aware of exist. The same rating system as before is used, and
most of these are rated a little higher than FASA books for the simple
reason of value for money -- all they cost you are what you have to pay to
your provider and/or the phone company to download them.

Neo-Anarchists' Guide To Everything Else, Issues 1 to 6 ~ to + (varies
with the issue, some are better than others)
NERPS: ShadowLore + (good stuff)
NERPS: Foundations - (disappointing people, places, and adventure ideas)
Physical Adept Handybook: + (really only a catalog of all nearly all
physad powers published so far)
SWO Guns ~ (if you need more guns, get this)
GM Handbook - (tables and stuff)

The books I did myself I will not comment on, but I'd appreciate it if
others did:
Running Gear
Tech Specs
Project 3
Chromebook Conversions

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't we all think we're the exception?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:11:47 GMT
Gurth writes
[trim]
>
> The GM book contains prominent NPCs for use in Denver, as well as more
> locations ("shadow" locations) and a system for making Denver as deadly as
> you want it to be -- each location and NPC has three "descriptions" the GM
> deciding which one to use, and each is nastier than the previous :)
> Also in this book are rules for travel around the world in general, and
> North America in particular, currencies, how the Denver area is guarded,
> black market stuff, and a bit more.
>
the thing you didn't really specifically mention is the stuff on
'sector hopping' or the assorted rules for trying to sneak over the
walls, fences etc on the sector boarders. Appart from Denver
specifics like particular demercator ratings though its reprints of
NAGRL etc, sensor rules etc.
Having actually tried it one note : those low security ratings are
not as hopeless as you might at first think, some sector jumps are
actually quite difficult, unless you happen to know of a handy
tunnel!! [i still get complaints from players whos Seattle characters
took a trip there, got crossed into atacking an Aztechnology facility
and then then discovered the favour for the tunnel to the UCAS sector
(they were not keen to discover their present sectors cops were KE :)
) was find a missing journalist (who just happened to have joined the
Universal Brotherhoods inner cirle[involutarily]) oops....(well the
player knew Missing Blood too well, still saw that comming from a
mile off)]

Mark
Message no. 15
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:56:53 +0000 (GMT)
On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Shadowbeat ~ (info on the media)
This book is actually nice to read, giving an amusing look into the day
to day life in 205X, for example see the Trideo listing.

Its also a very good book if you want to run a shadowrun game with a
twist. Play a reporter, with other players as your camera man, and
rigger. Have a semi-autonmous knowbot/AI and an NPC as Control and you're
all set to play Max Headroom!

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 16
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:48:27 -0600
>> I forgot Prime Runners, I see now. Although I also haven't actually held
>> it in my hands and read through it, I'd rate it as - to -- from what I've
>> read here. It contains powerful NPCs for GMs to build adventures around,
>> but most of the NPCs appear to be underpowered, flat, or both.

> I'd have to agree here. Even the powerful NPC's were a
>disappointment, not nearly as complex as an actual chracter. It seems
>that FASA took a quirk in each case and gave it stats to live. The only
>concepts I liked were the snooty Brit decker, the Irish assasin, and the
>wannabe runner.

My main problem with Prime Runners is that the errata is nearly as long as
the book itself. You'd think they'd put a LITTLE more care into something
like that, but I guess everyone makes mistakes.
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Bob "TopCat" Ooton <topcat@******.net>
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"Outside they are gathering and their fangs are bared, for
the bigger your fangs, the bigger your share."
-- Sol Invictus "Here Am I"
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Message no. 17
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:51:37 -0600
>> What could easily solve most of the problems is five-year updates to most
>> products. [snip] (not to mention updated availabilities, costs, and options).

>This would definitely be a good idea. I find it very unlikely that things
>still have the same availability after 5 years, and that all the
>businesses from 2050 are still running 7 years later.
>Maybe something for NERPS: Underworld...?

I'd like to see it, but as a seperate project. It really doesn't belong in
Underworld. I'd even help out on it, and happily so.
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Bob "TopCat" Ooton <topcat@******.net>
------------------------------------------------------------
"Outside they are gathering and their fangs are bared, for
the bigger your fangs, the bigger your share."
-- Sol Invictus "Here Am I"
------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 18
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: List of Most SourceBooks
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:59:08 +0100
TopCat said on 24 Jan 96...

> >This would definitely be a good idea. I find it very unlikely that things
> >still have the same availability after 5 years, and that all the
> >businesses from 2050 are still running 7 years later.
> >Maybe something for NERPS: Underworld...?
>
> I'd like to see it, but as a seperate project. It really doesn't belong in
> Underworld. I'd even help out on it, and happily so.

Underworld is going to be a very thin book if the current material is all
there will be. However, I think this _is_ something for Underworld,
because to me at least availability ratings represent the criminal side of
purchasing what you want...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
They're watching my every sound
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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