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Message no. 1
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Living Walker Drones
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:55:45 EST
I wonder how much Smart Materials would cost for a naval vessel ? Do you
think that Smart Materials on a submarine would allow it to go deeper than it
already can ? Or would it just make the sub more silent by masking out the
propellor / impellor noises ?

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:27:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <m009ig02@*****.mcmail.com>
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull - in - the - box
In-Reply-To: <00f401bd1754$62fecf40$0b06cecf@*****>
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On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:59:36 -0500 "Steven A. Tinner" publicised

Warning !
Spoiler for SR Adventure Imago below

> By now, I'm sure most of you know about the curse of Wendigoism that I have
> placed on our good friend Bull.
> After months of research, Bull has finally embarked upon a cure.
>
> I'll spare the details, but it basically comes down to this.
> Bull wants to upload his brain to online storage - essentially place his
> mind inside a computer.

I've read the other posts and I agree that you are looking at a huge
amount of data using standard SR techniques. Even using hardware
compression (which can be used on EXEcutables) which deferentiates
between data types and uses the appropriate algorithym. (E.G. JPG
for graphics,...)

There is an alternative though. Anybody out there own or read a copy
of the SR adventure Imago ?

In this adventure a decker (son of a high up in Trans Sys Neuronet if
I remember rightly) cooks some unusual MPCP chips before be
Message no. 2
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:19:03 +0000
[talk about the comet snipped]

Hmmmm, interesting. And some of it very similar to projects planned for
Shadowrun in 1999. Haley's Comet is definitely making its first appearance in
the Sixth World. But is it a harbinger of good news or of doom? Or perhaps of
both?

We shall see...

Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:55:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Living Walker Drones
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Okay, we all know that Move-By-Wire implanted into a rigger is a bad thing,
unless the rigger has a on/off switch for their VCR ... okay, (rereading the
paragraph), having a VCR and a rig are both very bad things then ...

First, setting the stage ... (quoting from the text from the R2) ... "The
move-by-wire system works by inducing a continual state of quasi-epileptic
seizure in a character. A computer in the system channels the seizure into
motion whenever the brain tells the body to move."

The remainder of the line tells how a VCR conflicts with a MBW, though from my
pov only if both of these items are implanted within the same person.

Second, take a person that already has implanted within them the Snake-Eyes
Remote Interface Link and a MBW ... this enables a rigger to receive and send
information to and from that person ... if the same person added an
encephalon, dedicated to keeping a line of communication between the Snake-
Eyes and the MBW ... and then add into the mix a DNI interface link between
the Encephalon and the MBW ... then with some reprogramming of the MBW to
enable a rigger to control the body via the mbw without any interference from
the implanted pc ...

And thus does one make a person capable of being a living-walker drone ...

A question, would the level of the MBW act as a form of Structural Agility for
the rigger also ? The level adds to the rigger's reaction and Control pools.

Thanks,

Mike

"Whe
Message no. 3
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:21:50 -0500
I have a question for you all. I was trying to do up a SAAB Dynamit for a
rigger I was creating, and came up with an interesting problem. To do the
SAAB up I was running out of space and load, so I decided to up them a bit.
Only problem
Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:03:35 EST
If you wanna fire bursts at a longer ranger you take a steady
assaultrifel and put a scope or two on it. Preferably an AK47 or
another trustworthy AR.

Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad

"Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuehrer" - Adolf Hitler

And they say it is just a coincident ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***
Message no. 5
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:51:05 -0500
In a message dated 98-01-02 19:24:42 EST, lobo1@****.COM writes:

> You guys might be interested in the stuff that got bounced around about a
> year ago on 'Meat Drones' in the list archives...
>
I saw some of it, interesting considering some of it looked like stuff I
posted to rec.games.cyber....about 6 years ago...

-K (yes, I'm feeling frustrated at the moment)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:00:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
In-Reply-To: <7bd59a62.34aa4c26@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:44 AM 12/31/97 EST, you wrote:
>SINAB (+3 Drain Category) .... This is something that gives a spell the
>limited ability to cast itself, should the mage choose to do so, and the
>acronym aptly become Spellcaster-IN-a-Box. The mage still resists the drain
>as if having cast the spell normally, and for the purposes of combat, this
>spell would only be considered a Simple Acti
Message no. 6
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:20:22 EST
new thing under the sun" ;) 'Sides, imitation is the sincerest form of
flattery:)

--
John Pederson Canthros, the shapeshifter-mage
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:09:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Melee Combat Revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Cont
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:46:47 +0100
NightRain said on 22:46/ 2 Jan 98...

> Lets say that I wanted to up the load rating as a design option, before I
> acquired the car. How does this work in the case of the SAAB for example?
> Does the character just change the load rating, re-work out the design
> points and then pay the money getting a slightly changed SAAB that rolls of
> the manufacturing plant, or is it assumed that it just covers previous mods
> OR is the SAAB with extra load rating actually a different model of car
> that can only exist if the GM rules it so.

IMHO the design options are only for when the car is being designed by the
manufacturer, or for when you're doing a really extensive rebuild (like
taking a truck and building an RV body onto it). Customization OTOH is
what you can do if you have a well-equipped garage.

A Dynamit with a higher Load rating would be a different model with a more
powerful engine, that you can buy from a Saab dealer, for example a
Dyna
Message no. 8
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:45:53 EST
Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:24:07 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <m009ig02@*****.mcmail.com>
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Question
In-Reply-To: <5561.199801031256@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:56:27 +0000 Spike said

> And verily, did Mon goose hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |>Thanks to losthalo I've been rethinking my views on melee/unarmed
> |>combat and it's brought up a question.
> |>
> |>Can an untrained person counter attack?
> |
> | According to the rules, yes- default to quickness (+2),no combat
> |pool (skill needed for test = 0).
> | An untrained person would be more likely to instinctively go on
> |"full defense", and likely safer doing so. But a real dirty down
> |drunken bar brawler, sure, he'll swing at anybody who comes at him,
> |training or not, bad idea or not.
>
> But if he has no combat pool, it's impossible to counter-attack, because you
> don't have any dice to counter-attack with!

You'd still have your basic skill dice, regardless of whether you
have any combat pool left or not.
Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:36:22 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Question
Content-Type: text/plain

>And verily, did Mon goose hastily scribble thusly...
>|
>|>Thanks to losthalo I've been rethinking my views on melee/unarmed
>|>combat and it's brought up a question.
>|>
>|>Can
Message no. 9
From: JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:06:36 EST
Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:33:47 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet
In-Reply-To: <yam7309.2682.137179496@****.amigaworld.com> from "Barbie"
at Jan
5, 98 11:54:53 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Barbie hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 05-Jan-98 wrote Zixx:
|
|[snip]
|
|
|I don`t think this is an topic which should be discussed here.
|
|SO STOP IT ALL AND EVERY ONE.

What will you do if we don't?
Will you punish me? Please?
:) :)
<smirk>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:47:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet
In-Reply-To: <7048.199801051633@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>; from Spike on
Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 04:33:47PM +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 04:33:47PM +0000, Spike wrote:
> And verily, did Barbie hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |At 05-Jan-98 wrote Zixx:
> |
> |[snip]
> |
> |
> |I don`t think this is an topic which should be discussed here.
> |
> |SO STOP IT ALL AND EVERY ONE.
>
> What will you do if we don't?
> Will you punish me? Please?
> :) :)
> <smirk>

Heh...this would be an <aol> me to,me to</aol>
She'll probably just thwap us very very hard.
get out the armor, run for the stairs!


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all of its students.
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:47 -0700
IIRC, using the Mayan calander(which is "more accurate than most"
according to Dunkelzahn), about 5000 years ago- so about 3000 B.C. But
then remember you have a lot of time period to play with there- you've
got the Scourge, which lasted what? 400 years? and then the pre-Scourge
which was probably a couple thousand years. Then you go into the Second
world, which was the other lul in magic and then the first world, which
was supposedly the "Age of the Dragons".

-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:04:4
Message no. 11
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:06:38 -0600
I was under the impression that 5000 years ago would be the botton of
the magic wave (the time when there was the least magic). Earthdawn
takes place when the magic of the 4th age is on the decline.

I know there's an article somewhere on Marcuchi's page (or a link to
it) where someone worked out the mayan calendar and the ages of
magic.

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:05:26 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sv: Year of Earthdawn
Content-Type: text/plain

>Hmm... That's a little way before Stonehenge I can see (unless =
>geologists and their C-14 tests are mistaken - not likely). But of
Message no. 12
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:14:34 -0500
>Earthdawn as the history of our world IS already very creative).
>
>- Carsten

Here's an idea: Maybe stonehenge was an attempt to bring back magic
by some '3rd world' surviors? :) You can always manipulate
elemental earth to make it look like it's younger than it really is?
It's fantasy, for cripe's sake! why not go whole hog? >:)

-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:05:19 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: [OT] Gas masks (was Weapon damage (was Re: 3G3))
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-01-01 20:00:42 EST, Paul J. Adam writes:

> Have you considered simply buying S10 respirators and L85A1 rifles from
> us? :) They work nicely in combination.
>

I think I saw a picture of an S-10 once, in one of Osprey's Elite Series of
picture books (#14, I think). If that's right, then the S-10 looks VERY
similar to the M40. The eyelets on the M40 are a lot bigger, though, and it
has a double skirt on the inside (so you don't have to tighten the mask so
tight as to strangl
Message no. 13
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:46:22 -0600
JonSzeto said on 15:05/ 5 Jan 98...

> I think I saw a picture of an S-10 once, in one of Osprey's Elite Series of
> picture books (#14, I think).

"The British Army in the 1980s"

> If that's right, then the S-10 looks VERY similar to the M40. The
> eyelets on the M40 are a lot bigger, though, and it has a double skirt
> on the inside (so you don't have to tighten the mask so tight as to
> strangle your face).

Not sure what the designation was, but there's a gas mask pictured on the
USMC web site that looks distinctly more modern than the M17.

> Also, as I saw from the picture, the S-10/L85A1 combo only works well if the
> rifle has that SUSAT scope on top. Didn't you say that not all troops got the
> SUSAT? That would mean all the non-infantry types without the SUSAT would
> still be SOL if all they had was iron sights.

The iron sights on an L85 sit about as high above the rifle as a SUSAT
does, so perhaps it's not as big a problem as it may appear. However,
perhaps Paul and Spike are in a better position than me to comment on
this, as I've never even seen either an L85 or a British gas mask up
close, let alone tried to sight one through the other :)

> Oh, and you're also forgetting the motto of the US military procurement
> system: Not Invented Here. :)

The Brits suffer from the same problem ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
In the garden.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:07:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@****
Message no. 14
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:37:06 EST
BTW: In case someone is wondering, I set Barsaive to be located in Iran =
and its neighbourhood.

- Carsten

www: http://inet.uni2.dk/home/alvion
e-mail: alvion@******.dk
alvion@****.uni2.dk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:35:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Carsten Gehling <alvion@****.UNI2.DK>
Subject: Sv: [OT]Spreckin' Doitsh (was: Re: R2 poll)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>Scheint ja wohl doch den einen oder anderen deutschsprechenden =
Vertreter
>>auf
>>dieser Liste zu geben. Mich wuerde aber mal interessieren, welcher der
>>hier Anwesenden deutsch versteht ohne ein .at, .ch oder .de am Ende...

>Now I realise that my german is very poor ... :)
>Vous êtes aussi bon en français qu'en allemend ?

And I my French...

Kunne vi så istedet ikke begynde at tale Dansk alle sammen?
Det ville gøre mit liv lidt lettere.

:-)

- Carsten

www: http://inet.uni2.dk/home/alvion
e-mail: alvion@******.dk
alvion@****.uni2.dk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:46:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sv: [OT]Spreckin' Doitsh (was: Re: R2 poll)
In-Reply-To: <199801061336.GAA04632@******.carl.org> from "Carsten
Gehling" at
Jan 6, 98 02:35:13 pm
Content-Type: text

Carsten Gehling wrote:
/
/ >>Scheint ja wohl doch den einen oder anderen deutschsprechenden =
/ Vertreter
/ >>auf
/ >>dieser Liste zu geben. Mich wuerde aber mal interessieren, welcher der
/ >>hier Anwesenden deutsch versteht ohne ein .at, .ch oder .de am Ende...
/
/ >Now I realise that my german is very poor ... :)
/ >Vous êtes aussi bon en français qu'en allemend ?
/
/ And I my French...
/
/ Kunne vi så istedet ikke begynde at tale Dansk alle sammen?
/ Det ville gøre mit liv lidt lettere.
/
/ :-)

And I my english...

Please, take this to private mail :)

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:46:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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JonSzeto wrote:
<Snip>

> Snake-Eyes, as I originally designed it, allows a rigger to experience the
> sensory input from a flesh-and-blood metahuman, just as if that person was a
> drone. However, it does NOT give the rigger control over the character,
> because the Snake-Eyes cyberware interfaces only with the sensory lobes of the
> brain. It does not have any connection to the parts of the brain that deal
> with motor control, so it is physically impossible for a rigger to take
> control of a character. (To use an analogy, it's like a cassette walkman
> player that can't record, because it has no record head to overwrite the data
> onto
Message no. 15
From: JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:18:54 EST
I did sort of adopt it - in a warped and twisted sort of way - for the
Neverending Speed vs. Martial Arts Skill Debate. =)

>/ Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
>/ -- Avenger
>
>I'm guessing you either work in customer service or retail ;)

Done both, actually. I'd rather not ever do it again. =)

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:39:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Combat Revisited

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:21:18 -0700 David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:

>How about multiplying the Reaction by the number of initiative dice a
>character has and call that number Melee Reaction. If a character is
>attacked in melee before their Melee Reaction *then* they have a +1
>TN for every 10 phases (or fraction thereof) the attack occurs
>before their Melee Reaction.
>
>So character A with a Reaction of 5 and 2d6 for initiative has a
>Melee Reaction of (5 x 2) 10. If he's attacked in melee on phase 22
>he would have a +2 to his TN to defend. If he's attacked on phase 14
>he would have a +1. If he's attacked on phase 7 his TN isn't
>modified.

This begins to delve into the surprise rules, IMHO, simply because
reacting is much easier if you know that the attack is coming, no matter
how fast it's moving. I also have an aversion to the "fraction thereof"
bit, due to the fact that someone who is acting a few milliseconds before
the target can react - which would have to be what melee reaction
represents - should not be that difficult to avoid. Hrmmmmmm...... I
know, how about we simplify it. The ruling could state, "A character has
a cumulative +1 TN penalty to counter any Armed or Unarmed Combat attack
for every 10 segments that between the attack and the target's first
action for the round. Example: Tim has an Initiative of 17+4D6, Bob has
an Initiative of 5+1D6. Tim rolls and ends up with a 32, Bob only gets a
7. Bob is at +2 to block Tim's first attack(32-7%), +1 for the second
attack, and no penalty for the third and fourth attack."

Thoughts?

>BTW, I prefer a +1 to a +2 b
Message no. 16
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:41:47 -0600
>Let's hope not. It got kinda heated last time. And maybe Ivy comes
>around...

Naw, it's staying polite for now. And since I was filled in on the Great
IvyK, I'm kinda annoyed that I didn't get a piece of her when she was
still here. Ah, well, such is life. =)

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:44:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Combat Revisited

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:48:38 +0100 William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
writes:

>I don't think it's a good idea. :)
>
>I think the better is to use the init you rolled. Let's take an exemple
:

<Snip!>

>How about this ? If you still prefer reaction to init, please tell me
>why ?

Well, I guess someone agrees with me. =)
(proceeds
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:33:44 EST
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Lehlan Decker wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 03:14:35PM -0500, niteGlo Messiah wrote:
> >
> > What are the eight companies in the Big 8?
> > These are the companies I know about:
> >
> > Ares HQ is in Detroit; run by Damien Knight
> > Aztechnology HQ in Aztlan; runs the country
> > Fuchi HQ in Japan; make really good decks
> > Mitsuhama HQ in Japan; just another nasticorp (?)
> > Renraku HQ in Japan; made Arcology; makes cyberware
> > Saeder Krupps HQ in Germany; run by Lafwyr the dragon
> >
> > What are the other two? Are they the Atlantean Foundation and Draco.
> > Foundation?
> >
> > Clue me in.
> >
> Gaetronics and Yametsu (sp?). I believe are the remaining two.
> Check out corp shadowfiles for lots of good stuff.

Shiawase Corporation and Yamatetsu. The Corporate Shadowfiles is
definately the book to pick up if you really want to play with the corps
alot. I tend to use the rules and have my players interacting with
several second tier corps, which has made for some rather interesting
vendetta's as their runs have caused some to rise to prominence and others
to fall...

Bruce aka Rendar, the educated Ork Street Samurai.

"The Shadows are your friend. Intelligence, your ally. Negotiation, your
companion. Violence, your lover...but frag, chaos is your wife!"
-Summary of the run's results to a Johnson.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:44:42 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Crash of 29
In-Reply-To: <19980107132243.45440@****.fsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <19980107132243.45440@****.fsu.edu>, Lehlan Decker
<decker@****.FSU.EDU> waffled & burbled about Crash of 29
<s
Message no. 18
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:46:23 -0600
Run by a triumvirate formed of the Villiers, Nakatomi and Yamana (sp?)
camps... with Villiers being king of the hill for now (ever since he got
a chunk of stock from Ds death)... Matrix, computer technology, light
industries

> Mitsuhama HQ in Japan; just another nasticorp (?)

Rumored to have ties with the Yakuza. Heavy industries, Matrix security
and Warfare. Very ruthless, arguably one of the most aggressive of the
corps.

> Renraku HQ in Japan; made Arcology; makes cyberware

Computer ressources. Mainframes, storage, etc. Pretty tame.

> Saeder Krupps HQ in Germany; run by Lafwyr the dragon

Heavy Industries. Headed by Lowfyr, the dragon. Formed from the remnants
of BMW and a couple of heavy industries compagnies from Germany.

> What are the other two? Are they the Atlantean Foundation and Draco.
> Foundation?

Shiawase, the first megacorp. They introduced and fought for the right to
be extraterritorial. Kinda faded...

and Yamatetsu. The latest megacorp, and probably the most expansionist.
Very aggresive.

Collectively, these are known as the Big 8, or the Triple A (AAA) corps.
Saeder-Krupp is currently the biggest megacorp, edging out Ares and
Fuchi... the others ar
Message no. 19
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:25:55 -0500
On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 09:46:23PM -0600, s c rose wrote:
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 03:06:38PM -0600, Tony Rabiola wrote:
> > > On 01/05/98 13:52:47 you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >JonSzeto wrote:
> > > >/
>
> > > >/ around relative to their position with the torso, rerouting the
circulatory
> > > >/ flow of blood, and so on). So the conceptual equivalent of Structural
Agility
> > > >/ in a flesh-and-blood character would be a genetically-engineered
automaton
> > > >/ optimized for agility.
> > > >/
> > > >/ IMO.
> > > >
> > > >In other words, a jackrabbit :)
> > > >
> > > Can you say "Kid Stealth"?
> > >
> > Heh....I'd actually love to see the stats on him.
> > He had to have very little essence left, and high grade stuff.
>
> As would everyone Kid Stealth is the closest you can get to being
> totally cyber without becoming a cyberzombie. He probally even had a
> really high body index too as it seems like something was mentioned
> about Vat grown muscle...

Possibly, although the stories were written before shadowtech
was available. IIRC. Most likely, there aren't stats for him, and
he was just a cool character. Wonder if we could get Mike Stackpoole
on the list. :)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 20
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:21:32 EST
Scrose wrote ...

> > On the other hand, it COULD be possible for some corp out there to design
a
> > piece of cyberware SIMILAR to Snake-Eyes that would also connect to the
> > brain's motor functions. The specifics are left as as an exercise for
house-
> > rule designers. (Post URLs to the mailing list when you have completed
this
> > assignment :)
>
> This sounds like something the good folks in azzie land would do to
> control one of the cyberzombies they like to create. Thing is the math
> would probally be like a great deal of the math you used for the new
> rigger rules
>
Actually, I had Winternight do it to some innocent people and then used (right
now in the game) against the players in the home game here ... Winternight
loves drones ... and the Living Drone is one of the scariest things I have
come up ...

Mike
Message no. 21
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:43:06 -0500
On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:46:22 -0600 s c rose <scrose@****.COM> writes:

>Tables would be really for some of this stuff in the next book (hint
hint)
>The math is not to difficult but tables would help out a great deal in
>the design stages.
>I suppose I'm just being lazy on this one. I disigned van and two
>customized drones it took
>a little over two hours. I love the detail but anyway you can streamline
>the process just a little in the next version please.

Ick. Streamlining is the enemy. Trying to keep the rules basic, IMHO, is
what ruined RBB. I mean, how can you justify stats that allow you to put
42 modern air-to-air missiles(not rockets) on a heavily outdated aircraft
such as the Eurofighter?
Personally, I agree with Mike M.'s description, that it's one of the
most over the top books they've done to date(congrats and kudos, Jon).
The simple inclusion of Load Rating made me ecstatic. Streamlining it
would make for unrealistic situations as mentioned above. I'm just hoping
that there WON'T be a "next version". The only thing I could even hint at
suggesting be altered is design point to nuyen math - and even that's
okay if I'm not too tired. =)

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

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Message no. 22
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:36:12 EST
Jon Szeto wrote ...

> Yeah, I know. Personally (speaking just for myself and no one else) I find
the
> basic concept behind MBW to be a little... screwy. The author (names have
> been omitted to protect the adulatory) IMNSHO was playing a little fast and
loose
> with the concept of fly-by-wire avionics. Relating human neurology to
> aeronautical engineering seems like trying to prove familial relationship
> between Macintoshes and Tangelos.

Sounds like we need to get a geneticist onto the RN group to help muddy things
up some more ...

> I also tend to question the implied notion that understanding of the
> (meta)human nervous system has progressed so far, that humankind, in 200 or
> so years, can do better with silicon what took Mother Nature several hundred
> millions of years with amino acids and nucleopeptides. Science has achieved
> some wonderful things, I know, but I'd far rather be happy than right any
> day... ;)

Makes you wonder why they put MBW out onto the market anyway ... especially at
the capability that it is at right now in the game ...

> But I digress. Editorial opinion aside, MBW and the VCR are, by their
> concept
> of operation, diametrically opposed. The VCR slaves complex mechanical
> systems
> to the instinctive choreographical direction of the middle brain. MBW, on
> the
> other hand, suborns organic neurons to the will of a half-pound (+/-) of
> spiced germanium. And never the twain shall meet.
>
> And you can never hook up MBW to communicate with Snake-Eyes: never. Simply
> put, the two are speaking completely different language. It's like using
> your
> sound card to feed graphical information to your video card.
>
> > A person already has a form of Drive-By-Wire ... the human central
> nervous
> > system ...
> >
> > Am I getting somewhere ?
> >
>
> Let me try this again without the complex technobabble...
>
> Structural Agility deals with STRUCTURE: shapes and forms and weights and
> materials. Drive-by-Wire deals with ELECTRONICS: signals and controls and
> responses. The meat equivalent of drive-by-wire is the nervous system:
> neurons
> and synapses and spinal material. The meat equivalent of structural agility
> is
> body structure: muscles and bones and organ placement.
>
> There is NO cyberware equivalent of Structural Agility: never. Installing
> MBW
> in a person means nada: MBW is a control system, not a structural change.
> The
> equivalent of Structural Agility is genetic engineering, rebuilding the
body
> from the chromosomes up.
>
Thanks Jon, I'm going to have to look at this some more .. though I did use
this in the game I had this past Sunday ... Winternight took some people,
surgically made them into quadaplegics and then installed a MBW and something
along the lines of a Remote Control Interface into the loop and then had these
people attack the group with weapons .. the guys are none too happy with me
for using innocents as weapons ...

Thanks,

Mike
Message no. 23
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:37:50 EST
In a message dated 98-01-07 13:48:16 EST, you write:

> d an organic nervous system handle that kind of load without burning
> out ?
> This is a question that would have to addressed I would say it would
> world in a cyberzombie but probally not with a "Normal meta human" but
> that is just my two cents worth on the topic...

What I had originally considered is that the nervous system would have serious
problems with the potential for conflicting orders from both the person
themselves and the rigger sending commands, so what I should have added is
that just such a person becomes a quardaplegic when the system is not
functional at all ...

Mike
Message no. 24
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:33:17 +1100
> > with the concept of fly-by-wire avionics. Relating human neurology to
> > aeronautical engineering seems like trying to prove familial relationship
> > between Macintoshes and Tangelos.
>
> Sounds like we need to get a geneticist onto the RN group to help muddy things
> up some more ...

Umm... <waving arm in air> That would be me?

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Founding member of THE NADBUSTERS!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:54:58 -0500
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:41:47 -0600 s c rose <scrose@****.COM> writes:

>> A person already has a form of Drive-By-Wire ... the human central
nervous
>> system ...
>
>Could an organic nervous system handle that kind of load without burning
out?
>This is a question that would have to addressed I would say it would
>world in a cyberzombie but probally not with a "Normal meta human" but
>that is just my two cents worth on the topic...

I'm assuming you mean MBW? No the (meta)human nervous system can't
handle it, which is why MBW has side effects that are so nasty. MBW can -
almost literally - turn your brain into a goopy puddle of gray muck.
Neat, huh?

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

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Message no. 26
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:39:58 -0500
On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:18:54 EST JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM> writes:

>Yeah, I know. Personally(speaking just for myself and no one else) I
find the
>basic concept behind MBW to be a little... screwy. The author(names have
been
>omitted to protect the adulatory) IMNSHO was playing a little fast and
loose
>with the concept of fly-by-wire avionics. Relating human neurology to
>aeronautical engineering seems like trying to prove familial
relationship
>between Macintoshes and Tangelos.

While this is very true, the most frightening thing about MBW is that,
from a logical standpoint, it very well might work. Scary, neh?

>I also tend to question the implied notion that understanding of the
>(meta)human nervous system has progressed so far that humankind, in 200
or so
>years, can do better with silicon what took Mother Nature several
hundred
>millions of years with amino acids and nucleopeptides. Science has
achieved
>some wonderful things, I know, but I'd far rather be happy than right
any
>day... ;)

True, but Mom designed us with generalities in mind. If She had wanted
to specifically design us as fast runners with opposable thumbs, we'd
probably have hollow bones, reverse-joint knees, and small hands on
spindly arms. What cyberware does is makes (meta)humanity a bit more
mission specific. Besides, I'd like to see Mother Nature create spurs(the
first person who says retractable claws gets hit with a fish! =) ).

>But I digress. Editorial opinion aside, MBW and the VCR are, by their
concept
>of operation diametrically opposed. The VCR slaves complex mechanical
systems
>to the instinctive choreographical direction of the middle brain. MBW,
on the
>other hand, suborns organic neurons to the will of a half-pound (+/-) of
>spiced germanium. And never the twain shall meet.
>
>And you can never hook up MBW to communicate with Snake-Eyes: never.
Simply
>put, the two are speaking completely different language. It's like using
your
>sound card to feed graphical information to your video card.

I think you're misinterpreting Jon. The two don't need to interface with
each other, just send and recieve simultaneous signals to and from a
remote control deck. A MBW system that is not responding to movement
commands from the host body would effectively turn you into a helpless
passenger in your own body. A small C&C module connected to the MBW to
translate RCDeck commands turns the twitching MBW recipient into,
effectively, a new drone for the rigger.

(note, I snipped the rest of it because I understood what you were
saying.=) )

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page Under Construction!

Some people simply are a waste of space on the buttocks of humanity.
-- Avenger

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Further Reading

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