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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:59:42 -0600
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 08:38:34 +0000 Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
writes:
>and thus did Stefan speak on 12 Dec 98 at 18:55:
<SNIP>
>> Doesn't Leonardo live somewhere around there to ? Can't remember if
>> they say exactly where he lives but it is around there somewhere ..

>I thought it was Iran, but I could be wrong. I hate that guy...
<SNIP>

I thought it was that mysterious place in Madagascar described in
Cyberpirates.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

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Message no. 2
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:48:03 -0600
:I thought it was that mysterious place in Madagascar described in
:Cyberpirates.


Wouldn't that mean Leo and Harley are working together? AFAIK, NONE of
the really weird info in that section is true. Well, probably some of it
is, but so much is bad, how do you know what's good?

Mongoose
Message no. 3
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:03:03 EST
I admit it, I snipped several other "who wrote this" statements...I was lost,
and it doesn't hurt what follows...


In a message dated 12/13/1998 1:37:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >> Doesn't Leonardo live somewhere around there to ? Can't remember if
> >> they say exactly where he lives but it is around there somewhere ..
>
> >I thought it was Iran, but I could be wrong. I hate that guy...
> <SNIP>
>
> I thought it was that mysterious place in Madagascar described in
> Cyberpirates.

Actually, his place isn't on an island by all the descriptions that I have
found (the two novels in this case). It is definitely mainland type, perhaps
somewhere in Iraq/Iran or Saudi Arabia. Hell, it could be some of India's
wastes for all I can tell I guess.

And besides, IF it was the place on Madagascar, that would completely and
utterly destroy the concept that Mike B. and I have joked with .. it's a
"Think Tank" that Lofwyr has devised and is keeping secluded/secure to the
best of his abilities...

-K
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:21:09 EST
In a message dated 12/14/98 12:04:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ereskanti@***.COM writes:

> > >> Doesn't Leonardo live somewhere around there to ? Can't remember if
> > >> they say exactly where he lives but it is around there somewhere ..
> >
> > >I thought it was Iran, but I could be wrong. I hate that guy...
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > I thought it was that mysterious place in Madagascar described in
> > Cyberpirates.
>
> Actually, his place isn't on an island by all the descriptions that I have
> found (the two novels in this case). It is definitely mainland type,
> perhaps
> somewhere in Iraq/Iran or Saudi Arabia. Hell, it could be some of India's
> wastes for all I can tell I guess.

Leonardo's villa is in Iraq, near the Iranian border. Go to the point of the
Gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran, at the apex of the gulf, then head inland
towards one of the major cities, and there is a roughly triangular area which
is between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (or one of their tributaries), and
that is where his villa is. I have a map of the Middle East somewhere, but
can not find it at the moment.

> And besides, IF it was the place on Madagascar, that would completely and
> utterly destroy the concept that Mike B. and I have joked with .. it's a
> "Think Tank" that Lofwyr has devised and is keeping secluded/secure to the
> best of his abilities...

The place on Madasgar is somebody's, and personally, I'm leaning towards it
being owned by Lofwyr.

-Mike
Message no. 5
From: Lance Dillon <riffraff@********.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:17:26 +0000
Mike Bobroff wrote:

> Leonardo's villa is in Iraq, near the Iranian border. Go to the point of the
> Gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran, at the apex of the gulf, then head inland
> towards one of the major cities, and there is a roughly triangular area which
> is between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (or one of their tributaries), and
> that is where his villa is. I have a map of the Middle East somewhere, but
> can not find it at the moment.
>
> -Mike


Is it a cooincidence that that is where The Garden of Eden was supposed
to be?


--
--lsd
Message no. 6
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:46:33 EST
In a message dated 12/14/1998 8:17:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
riffraff@********.RR.COM writes:

>
> Is it a cooincidence that that is where The Garden of Eden was supposed
> to be?
>
SHHH!!!

That isn't supposed to be pointed out...

-K
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:12:03 EST
In a message dated 12/14/98 8:17:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
riffraff@********.RR.COM writes:

> Mike Bobroff wrote:
>
> > Leonardo's villa is in Iraq, near the Iranian border. Go to the point of
> the
> > Gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran, at the apex of the gulf, then head
> inland
> > towards one of the major cities, and there is a roughly triangular area
> which
> > is between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (or one of their tributaries),
> and
> > that is where his villa is. I have a map of the Middle East somewhere,
> but
> > can not find it at the moment.
> >
> > -Mike
>
>
> Is it a cooincidence that that is where The Garden of Eden was supposed
> to be?

Umm, actually, the Garden of Eden is supposedly in East Africa, somewhere
below Ethiopia, IIRC.

-Mike
Message no. 8
From: Lance Dillon <riffraff@********.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:34:08 +0000
Mike Bobroff wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Is it a cooincidence that that is where The Garden of Eden was supposed
> > to be?
>
> Umm, actually, the Garden of Eden is supposedly in East Africa, somewhere
> below Ethiopia, IIRC.
>
> -Mike


Not according to my New American Standard, New Open Bible. Full of
descriptions, maps, stories, the normal bible stuff (of course), more
maps, annotations, foot notes, etc.


Not saying they're right or wrong. Since it was so long ago, and there
aren't too many documents surviving that time, but that's what it says.


--
--lsd
Message no. 9
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:05:38 +1000
> > Mike Bobroff wrote:
> >
> > > Leonardo's villa is in Iraq, near the Iranian border. Go to the
> point of
> > the
> > > Gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran, at the apex of the gulf, then
> head
> > inland
> > > towards one of the major cities, and there is a roughly
> triangular area
> > which
> > > is between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (or one of their
> tributaries),
> > and
> > > that is where his villa is. I have a map of the Middle East
> somewhere,
> > but
> > > can not find it at the moment.
> > >
> > > -Mike
> >
> >
> > Is it a cooincidence that that is where The Garden of Eden was
> supposed
> > to be?
>
> Umm, actually, the Garden of Eden is supposedly in East Africa,
> somewhere below Ethiopia, IIRC.
>
> -Mike
>
Is IIRC something about your recollection? Because if so, Mike, your
recollection is incorrect. The Garden of Eden's traditional location IS
between the Tigris and Euphrates. Don't ask me where to find this, but
my father's a Baptist Minister and I believe him. :) If you really want
confirmation, I'll find out for you, but you can take my word for it.
Probably. :)

*Doc' sees all, Doc' knows all...Doc' remembers about half of it.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 10
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:34:52 -0500
At 05:05 PM 12/17/98 +1000, you wrote:
>>
>> Umm, actually, the Garden of Eden is supposedly in East Africa,
>> somewhere below Ethiopia, IIRC.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>Is IIRC something about your recollection? Because if so, Mike, your
>recollection is incorrect. The Garden of Eden's traditional location IS
>between the Tigris and Euphrates. Don't ask me where to find this, but
>my father's a Baptist Minister and I believe him. :) If you really want
>confirmation, I'll find out for you, but you can take my word for it.
>Probably. :)
>
>Doc'

You are correct. The location of Eden is, strangely enough, in the
beginning of the Book of Genesis. Chapter 2, vss 10-14 to be exact.

Quoting from the New American Standard:

10: Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it
divided and became four rivers.

[skip vss. 11-13 which talk about the other two rivers]

14: And the name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria.
And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

What Mike's referring to is the suspected place where Homo Sapiens
supposedly first evolved.


Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:52:55 +1000
Starjammer writes:
> You are correct. The location of Eden is, strangely enough, in the
> beginning of the Book of Genesis. Chapter 2, vss 10-14 to be exact.
>
> Quoting from the New American Standard:
>
> 10: Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it
> divided and became four rivers.
>
> [skip vss. 11-13 which talk about the other two rivers]
>
> 14: And the name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria.
> And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
>
> What Mike's referring to is the suspected place where Homo Sapiens
> supposedly first evolved.

And the reason for the naming is that the Torah was first put into a written
form whilst the Jews were in Babylon. Naturally enough, the two major rivers
of the Babylonian world were written into the story. (Side note: all of the
Bible/Torah _prior_ to the period at Babylon is totally a verbal history.
After Babylon, it is a mixed verbal/written history. You can spot the change
in the nature of the writing fairly easily)

Acadmeics don't give much weight to the theory that the Garden of Eden is
between the Tigris and the Euphrates. For starters, they aren't joined
(certainly not with 2 other rivers). I caught a documentary a while back
which proposed the island of Bahrain as the likely spot (some bigwig from
the University of Israel has it as his pet theory), and amongst other
evidence is fossil records showing the island to have enjoyed a tropical
climate and ecology about 6000 years ago, and a peaceful culture. Given that
the Arabian penisula was already a desert by that point, Bahrain would
certainly have seemed like a garden.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 12
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:25:33 EST
In a message dated 12/17/1998 1:14:56 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU writes:

>
> Is IIRC something about your recollection? Because if so, Mike, your
> recollection is incorrect. The Garden of Eden's traditional location IS
> between the Tigris and Euphrates. Don't ask me where to find this, but
> my father's a Baptist Minister and I believe him. :) If you really want
> confirmation, I'll find out for you, but you can take my word for it.
> Probably. :)

It's okay Doc, I do have the references still, and I live in the same house
with him. Problem solved, neh?

> *Doc' sees all, Doc' knows all...Doc' remembers about half of it.*

Yep, you're right on one. Son of a Baptist Minister all right... ;-P

-K
Message no. 13
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:51:58 EST
In a message dated 12/17/98 1:14:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU writes:

> > Umm, actually, the Garden of Eden is supposedly in East Africa,
> > somewhere below Ethiopia, IIRC.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> Is IIRC something about your recollection? Because if so, Mike, your
> recollection is incorrect. The Garden of Eden's traditional location IS
> between the Tigris and Euphrates. Don't ask me where to find this, but
> my father's a Baptist Minister and I believe him. :) If you really want
> confirmation, I'll find out for you, but you can take my word for it.
> Probably. :)

Okay, I stand corrected, it could be in lots of places, Leo's place is one of
them potentially then.

-Mike
Message no. 14
From: Andrew Benn <abenn@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:39:41 -0000
Err..... Not wanting to apper dumb or anything, but who is Loenardo?

I don't have a lot of Shadowrun novel's so please excuse my ignorance.

I'm following the thread but this point keeps stumping me.

Cheers
Message no. 15
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:36:19 +1000
> > *Doc' sees all, Doc' knows all...Doc' remembers about half of it.*
>
> Yep, you're right on one. Son of a Baptist Minister all right... ;-P
>
> -K
>
Son? Who said anything about me being a guy?

*Doc' starts to get paranoid.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 16
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:18:48 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:39 PM 12/17/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Err..... Not wanting to apper dumb or anything, but who is Loenardo?

It's a misspelling of the name of one of the Imortal Elves, Leonardo.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 17
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:13:16 -0600
From: Ratinac, Rand (NSW)
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 5:36 PM

>> > *Doc' sees all, Doc' knows all...Doc' remembers about half of it.*
>>
>>Yep, you're right on one. Son of a Baptist Minister all right... ;-P
>
>Son? Who said anything about me being a guy?

You're not? I thought you were the one who said you were a minister's
son. Now *I'm* getting confused....

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 18
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:29:08 EST
In a message dated 12/17/1998 7:17:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU writes:

>
> Son? Who said anything about me being a guy?
>
> *Doc' starts to get paranoid.*

Oh yeah, sure, now that I've gone and erased my email files you want me to
supply "Virtual World" proof??!!?? Yeah, right.. ;P

-K
Message no. 19
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:54:29 -0800
> Err..... Not wanting to apper dumb or anything, but who is Loenardo?
>
> I don't have a lot of Shadowrun novel's so please excuse my ignorance.
>
> I'm following the thread but this point keeps stumping me.
>
Yeah, I've been reading that he's chums with Harliquen or something like that...are they
both those imortal elves I've been hearing about...same as that queen alchia or whatever
he name is...?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 20
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:28:42 -0500
<SNIP>
I'll add a bit of spoiler space just in case.











>Yeah, I've been reading that he's chums with Harliquen or
>something like that...are they both those imortal elves I've been
>hearing about...same as that queen alchia or whatever he name
>is...?

I don't know much about Leonardo, however he is an immortal
elf as in Harliquin, Ehran the Scribe, several rules of the Tir, etc.
These are very powerful elves that have been around since
at least the 4th Age. (See EarthDawn for queen alachia, blood
elves etc etc).
Alot of this is mentioned in the two Tir sourcebooks, Threats,
Harliquin, harliquin's back, and at least a few novels.
There's a bunch more too it, but recently FASA has been trying
to move away from the IE plotlines and entaglements.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 21
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Loenardo (Was: egypt)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:58:24 +1000
> From: Ratinac, Rand (NSW)
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 5:36 PM
>
> >> > *Doc' sees all, Doc' knows all...Doc' remembers about half of
> it.*
> >>
> >>Yep, you're right on one. Son of a Baptist Minister all right...
> ;-P
> >
> >Son? Who said anything about me being a guy?
>
> You're not? I thought you were the one who said you were a minister's
> son. Now *I'm* getting confused....
>
> (>) Texas 2-Step
>
No...I said my father was a minister. I never said I'm a 'minister's
son'. Big diff.

*Doc' starts wearing a bra.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer

Further Reading

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