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Message no. 1
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Lone star
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 21:11:45 -0700
Have your decker get them released on a technicality.

IF your decker is good enough.

Best way - don't get caught.

Dan

Yes I'm back on - Gaming was canceled :(

Well I guess that means I could study for my two tests tomorrow.
Message no. 2
From: JOHANNA BURWELL-KALES <burwell@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: lone star
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:37:09 -0700
If anyone out there has the Lone Star handbook, I would
appreciate an explanation of its contents. i am considering buying it. thanx.
Message no. 3
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: lone star
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 18:38:07 +1000
Whatsername writes:

> If anyone out there has the Lone Star handbook, I would
> appreciate an explanation of its contents. i am considering buying it. thanx.

Well, I'd say its not too bad, if only because players get ahold of it, read
it, realise just how nasty lone star is, and then decide not to take their
LMG with them next time they go for a walk down the street :-)

The first section is Corporate Structure. It deatils the history of the
corp, and its curent struacture, as well as its chain of command, and info
about the star in other parts around the place (like quebec and CAS)

The next bit deatils the Enforcement Arm. We get info on the personell,
assets, procedures of the many arms of Ls, from the highway patrol, the Drug
Enforecxemnt Devision the Division of Paranormal Investigation, GridSec
(matrix Security) and so on. Pretty helpful.

Next is The Corporate Arm, not quite as dull as it sounds. It covers Admin,
Internal Affairs, and, most importantly, the Division of Penology. There are
many new (and, at least from a players point of view) horrible methods of
"community retribution" for crimes. From

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
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f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+
Message no. 4
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: lone star
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 18:49:51 +1000
Whatsername writes:

> If anyone out there has the Lone Star handbook, I would
> appreciate an explanation of its contents. i am considering buying it. thanx.

Fuckit, our mailer fucked my message again, I'm pissed, here is the real one:

Possible spoilers for games where GMs dont let players read sensitive
sourcebooks.






















Well, I'd say its not too bad, if only because players get ahold of it, read
it, realise just how nasty lone star is, and then decide not to take their
LMG with them next time they go for a walk down the street :-)

The first section is Corporate Structure. It deatils the history of the
corp, and its curent struacture, as well as its chain of command, and info
about the star in other parts around the place (like quebec and CAS)

The next bit deatils the Enforcement Arm. We get info on the personell,
assets, procedures of the many arms of Ls, from the highway patrol, the Drug
Enforecxemnt Devision the Division of Paranormal Investigation, GridSec
(matrix Security) and so on. Pretty helpful.

Next is The Corporate Arm, not quite as dull as it sounds. It covers Admin,
Internal Affairs, and, most importantly, the Division of Penology. There are
many new (and, at least from a players point of view) horrible methods of
"community retribution" for crimes. From simsence incarceration, where they
jack you in for "ease of paperwork", then dont unjack you. you are then
subjected to a simulated bail hearing, released, and then tempted to become
a recidivist (my big word for the day [well, OK, the year]), if you do
recommit a crime, it is used in your real bail hearing. Methods of
brainlocking, and memory erasure are detailed as well. imagine having the
Sammy brainlocked to experience extreme fear when handling guns :-)

Theres a colour picy section with some humerous "top tens".

Personell comes next. This details stuff like the Ls tissue archives (where
tissue from all employees is kept - got any players with ex LS backgrounds -
i do <evil Gm grin>), corruption (handy hints for buying your own officer
included), and well, now we're up to...

Operational Procedures. This is how you get arrested, what you are detained
with; theres some nasty electrified handcuffs etc in here, the trial, and
your (possibel) stint in gaol. the fun thing called the "deathbed statement"
is here, and yep, its as open for abuse as it sounds... this section is
pretty good, handy for when the star stops your players and questions them
on whether they have liscences for those assault rifles...

Intelligence gathering is next, survellence is quite interesting.

then come the new equipment. some tracking devices, and "ultra" secure
prisoner transport vehicle, the new 3000 rounds per second gun, a sniper
survellance drone, the biomonitor people have been talking about (you know,
the one that sends in a code (whatever) when an officer goes down), a few
drugs (similar to the dreaded Kamakaze from shadowtech - but not quites as
bad). and thats it for that secotion. Some cool equipment here.

Game info comes next. We get stats for all the new equipment, Oh, and the
new matrix programs, they can really ruin a deckers day, viruses that hide
in your system and root you up, and can only be removed by replacing the
chips. an even worse virus (oh, i wont say that, as players may read this -
the Game info section is GMs only), and a few new attack programs. We then
get stats on regular LS personnel, from the street cop, to the chrome cop,
to the fast response trooper and the Swap team. And then a few vehicles.

In general, not as good as the grimy thing, or quite as fun for players as
the SSC, or Stech, but better than other info sourcebooks. If you have all
the "standard" source books - Grimy, SSC, Para, whatever, and are
considering purchasing another sourcebook, then this is a pretty good one.
I'd rate it as about the same as the New Anarchists Guide to Real life, and
a bit better than Corp Shadowfiles.

On the topic of Corp Shadowfiles, I got mine free, and the reason I did is
'cause its a misprinted copy, and its missing 8 pages. I know this is being
a tad hopeful, but I was wondering if some kind person out there who has too
much time on their hands could scan/type/summarise these 8 pages for me: 49,
52, 53, 56, 57, 60, 61, 64. I'd really appreciate it.

Also, could someone explain the 3rd paragraph on page 117 in corp
Shadowfiles, i dont understand.

Thanks,
--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
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f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+


--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
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Message no. 5
From: Robert Hobson <cain@*****.NB.CA>
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 02:54:39 AST
Has anybody seen the Lone Star sourcebook. I would like to get some
opinions before I spend 20 bucks.

Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If language is a weapon,
and Knowledge is the ammo Robert Hobson
Why do so many people shoot blanks ___ cain@*****.nb.ca
(o o)
----------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-----------------------
Message no. 6
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@******.UOW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 12:57:24 +0000
Robert writes:

> Has anybody seen the Lone Star sourcebook. I would like to get some
> opinions before I spend 20 bucks.

I posted a summary of what you got in the LS book about a week or two
ago. Thats assuming it actually made it to the list (my mailer sucks).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-Mail: u9467882@******.uow.edu.au

(Geek Code 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
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Message no. 7
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 23:23:48 -0400
On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Robert Hobson wrote:

> Has anybody seen the Lone Star sourcebook. I would like to get some
> opinions before I spend 20 bucks.
>
I have only flipped through it at the store..But..It seems like a good
source book for the -GM- It doesn't really seem suited to player needs..
-----------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 8
From: Mercenary X <kdye@*****.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 21:01:04 -0700
On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Robert Hobson wrote:

> Has anybody seen the Lone Star sourcebook. I would like to get some
> opinions before I spend 20 bucks.
>
> Thanks

It is definitly worth every penny. It has everything from
prcedures to the latest lone star goodies, nova hot!

MercenaryX
Message no. 9
From: Stuart Marsh <sam10@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Lone star
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 21:04:13 +0000
Latley my players are showing a blatent disrespect for loan star, once on a run
they saw a GMC Harpy cruising over the skyline and toasted it with a fragging
hell blast!!! I am lost, whenever the law trys to catch up with these runners
the law gets toasted!

And ideas how to stop this???

And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?

Cinder
Message no. 10
From: Enos Michel CDT <x62674f3@**************.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:48:13 EST
>
>Latley my players are showing a blatent disrespect for loan star, once on a run
>they saw a GMC Harpy cruising over the skyline and toasted it with a fragging
>hell blast!!! I am lost, whenever the law trys to catch up with these runners
> the law gets toasted!
>
>And ideas how to stop this???
>
>And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?
>
>Cinder
>


One word chummer:

AMBUSH!!!

Lone Star seems to have gotten some inside info on their run, and after
the loss of the Harpy, well, the're slightly tourqued. One other suggestion,
don't try and make 'the Law' superpowerfull, just make 'em smarter.


Mike
(General Purpose Whipping Boy)
--What happened to my .sig?
Message no. 11
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Lone star
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 21:19:46 -0500
>>>>> "Stuart" == Stuart Marsh <sam10@***.AC.UK> writes:

Stuart> And ideas how to stop this???

Whatever they use against LoneStar, use back, and then some. LoneStar has
/lots/ more resources than any pack of streetrunners.

Stuart> And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?

Depends on whether it's an electrode net or plug-in types. Which has no
effect on game mechanics as the hitcher is just along for the ride.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! | Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 12
From: Chris Aurand <caurand@*******.FREENET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 21:22:36 -0500
On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Stuart Marsh wrote:

> Latley my players are showing a blatent disrespect for loan star, once on a run
> they saw a GMC Harpy cruising over the skyline and toasted it with a fragging
> hell blast!!! I am lost, whenever the law trys to catch up with these runners
> the law gets toasted!
>
> And ideas how to stop this???

Well, you can all ways roll 2d6 to see if the guy who gets toasted has
any back up. Also, in general the enforcing agencies can only react, not
initiate a situation, unless you have the runners accedentily leave some
clues behind or other incriminating evidence. Or just have one get a call
from some one and have them say "We're watching you" then hang up. As
long as they get away with what ever they are doing it will continue,
they need reason to think before acting.
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:35:55 +0100
>And ideas how to stop this???

Read the Lone Star book: they sometimes hire bounty hunters to get at people
they can't get at by law.

>And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?

You could probably make do with some sort of headband arrangement that sends
the signals into your brain. This wouldn't be clear enough to do the actual
decking, of course.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The 7th Zogian Church Of Funk
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 14
From: Andrew <wadycki@***.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:04:09 -0600
On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Stuart Marsh wrote:

> Latley my players are showing a blatent disrespect for loan star, once on a run
> they saw a GMC Harpy cruising over the skyline and toasted it with a fragging
> hell blast!!! I am lost, whenever the law trys to catch up with these runners
> the law gets toasted!

Well, remember, the Star is a corp just like all the rest. If they find
someone a threat what do corps do. The Star can just do all the old cop
tricks. If you don't have a copy of Lone Star, get it. They use lots of
magic types. They tend to send a mage in astral as back up as soon as
there is a magic threat. If one of the group bleeds during a run in, get
a sample and the ritual sorcery his ass. Lone Star cops have street
contacts, have an ambush at a meet. Not only is there a chance to take
out the group, but it ruins their rep. Who wants to do business with
guys who have the heat on them.

> And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?

In one of the novels they use a trode set, it was in a hat. Simsense
players use them also. Not everyone has a datajack to simsense. You
can't BTL with out though. The image isn't as strong, but that is a good
thing when you are hitching, no chance of being fried.

-Andrew
Message no. 15
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:06:29 EST
> >And do hitcher jack require a data jack or can anyone use them?
>
> You could probably make do with some sort of headband arrangement that sends
> the signals into your brain. This wouldn't be clear enough to do the actual
> decking, of course.
>
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
>
Actually a 'trodenet can be used for hitcherjack and decking (with penalties)


Luc
Message no. 16
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Lonestar
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:52:33 -0600
I've never seen the Lonestar Sourcebook. In fact, I'm not even sure when
it came out. I check a couple dealers books, but I didn't see it. Can
anyone tell me when it came out? Also, what is it like? Is it pretty
cool? Lots of info? How long, and most important how much. :)
Thanks
-Court


/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i got nothing on my mind
i got nothing to say
so have a nice day
hey hey...purple grass, green sky, yellow clouds,
whatever you want
hey hey hey
-Too Much Joy
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 17
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:22:52 -0800
>I've never seen the Lonestar Sourcebook. In fact, I'm not even sure when
>it came out. I check a couple dealers books, but I didn't see it. Can
>anyone tell me when it came out? Also, what is it like? Is it pretty
>cool? Lots of info? How long, and most important how much. :)
>Thanks

Lone Star is a 133 page, $18.00 sourcebook written by Nigel D. Findley(woot).
It came out in '94, I think. I like it personally, GM's will find the
information about the corporate structure interesting and can probably use
it in their games. It basically describes everything about Lone Star, from
it's history to it's operating procedures. Shadowtalk prevails, hinting
about this and that. There are a variety of different Lone Star archetypes
like Motorcycle Cops, SWAT members, paranormal investigators, etc.

This book is, IMO, good for GM's that might not use Lone Star as a big threat
in their campaigns because they don't understand one thing or another.
Player's can probably leave it alone, although it will help you from doing
bone-headed things, ie, carrying around multi-launchers on your motorcycle.

-Skye-churner-outer-of-bland-reviews.
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:06:13 +0100
Court Schuett said on 22:52/13 Mar 97...

> I've never seen the Lonestar Sourcebook. In fact, I'm not even sure when
> it came out. I check a couple dealers books, but I didn't see it. Can
> anyone tell me when it came out?

Summer 1994.

> Also, what is it like? Is it pretty cool? Lots of info?

It has more than you want to know about Lone Star if you're a player, an
all you need to know if you're a GM :) It gives more or less a full
description of Lone Star, both the corporate part and the police part, and
if you're a GM you learn how the Star is likely to react, what they can
bring to bear, and what will happen afterward. I'd say it's a must-buy for
GMs...

> How long, and most important how much. :)

27.8 cm, and US$18 :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Braindead -- the fumes I breathe
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 19
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:46:27 -0800
>Lone Star is a 133 page, $18.00 sourcebook written by Nigel D. Findley(woot).


I'm sure it's been said here before, but for all you folks new to SR, get
anyting and everything you can by the late Mr. Findley. IMHO the best
writer gaming's ever seen.

D.
Message no. 20
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:55:29 -0500
I Echo what david lowe said earlier. Findley in my opinion, wrote some
of the best novels to come out of the Shadowrun line, and his
sourcebooks were some of the most informative. He will be sorely missed.
Message no. 21
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:47:34 -0600
On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Fisher, Victor wrote:

> I Echo what david lowe said earlier. Findley in my opinion, wrote some
> of the best novels to come out of the Shadowrun line, and his
> sourcebooks were some of the most informative. He will be sorely missed.

I agree. The stuff I have from Findley was very good. I'm defintly
going to have get the Lonestar book now, knowing what's in it and who
wrote it. Thanks. :)
-Court


/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I got a ride home with a drunk guy
How ungrateful I must have seemed
He showed me how to spin my head round and round
We'll be sleeping in the flowers
Tell my boss I'm fired
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 22
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:05:00 MST
>>Lone Star is a 133 page, $18.00 sourcebook written by Nigel D.
Findley(woot).
>
>
>I'm sure it's been said here before, but for all you folks new to SR, get
>anyting and everything you can by the late Mr. Findley. IMHO the best
>writer gaming's ever seen.
>
>D.

I am sorry to hear that, I've got his name over tone of my RPGing stuff.
Not just Shadowrun, but old AD&D and Marvel Super Hero stuff. I was just
reading an old article he wrote about undead in Dragon Magazine, and it was
a good article. He wrote some classic Shadowrun adventures and sourcebooks,
and I loved his NPCs.

A friend of mine has the Lonestar book and likes it. From what I saw it
looked good, but I only saw it once, about a year ago.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 23
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 01:18:54 +0000
> > How long, and most important how much. :)
>
> 27.8 cm, and US$18 :)

Gurth... You.. have WAY to much time on your hands if you measured
the book... nice to see you used the right measuring system tho ;)

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:55:14 +0100
Shane Courtrille said on 1:18/16 Mar 97...

> > > How long, and most important how much. :)
> >
> > 27.8 cm, and US$18 :)
>
> Gurth... You.. have WAY to much time on your hands if you measured
> the book...

All it took was maybe 20 seconds, but yeah, I have too much time on my
hands...

> nice to see you used the right measuring system tho ;)

I think I have a ruler in inches somewhere, but it's not one I prefer to
use :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I am my own parasite.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 25
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lonestar
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:20:17 -0800
At 12:55 PM 3/16/97, Gurth wrote:
>Shane Courtrille said on 1:18/16 Mar 97...
>
>> > > How long, and most important how much. :)
>> >
>> > 27.8 cm, and US$18 :)
>>
>> Gurth... You.. have WAY to much time on your hands if you measured
>> the book...
>
Actually, I think he was asking about column in/cm. Now see how much free
time you haveŠ

D.
Message no. 26
From: Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:35:48 PDT
"Only one man would give me the raspberry!"

Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.
I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?
And there's Knight Errant too. Can't forget about them. Anyway, this
is mostly to ask "So....anyone else notice this kinda trend? Or is it
just me?"
I gotta know, cause frankly, all the talk about Spell Permits is
boring the socks offa me.

Pink`

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 27
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:10:33 -0400
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Drea O'Dare wrote:

-> "Only one man would give me the raspberry!"
->
-> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
->the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
->months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
->or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.
-> I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
->sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
->AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
->possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
->you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?

I use the 'Star if the players are having a too easy time of it.
Routine traffic stops, a crime in he area (perhaps not the one the players
performed), them showing up at the scene of the crime witout any alarms
being raised ("Hey Charlie, mind if I eat my lunch here?") and things of
a similar nature.

-> And there's Knight Errant too. Can't forget about them. Anyway, this
->is mostly to ask "So....anyone else notice this kinda trend? Or is it
->just me?"
-> I gotta know, cause frankly, all the talk about Spell Permits is
->boring the socks offa me.

You wear socks? Are they Pink? ]:-P <---raspberry...

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 28
From: Adam Marler <adam_marler@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:59:37 PDT
Yeah, I've noticed that as well, Im a GM and Lone Star is only mentioned
in jokes about the security guards at my school. After reading the
section in Awakenings about Lone Star's magic cops, i would think more
people would use them. Lone Star isnt around to shoot at characters for
no reason, they are the police of shadowrun, they respond to emergency
calls, pull people over for speeding,and direct traffic. All these can
be usefull in a campaign, for instance what if the characters get pulled
over and a overenthusiastic player kills the cop? What if he had a
partner that was waiting in the car and saw the characters faces? Then
the characters would be seen as "cop killers" and hunted down.
Megacorps and criminal orginazations arent the only one who hold a
grudge.

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Message no. 29
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:18:51 -0400
<SNIP>
>And there's Knight Errant too. Can't forget about them. Anyway,
>this is mostly to ask "So....anyone else notice this kinda trend?
>Or is it just me?"
I've noticed it alot. Alot of GM's don't use Lonestar and its ilk
to its fullest potential. As a GM I was guilty of it as well, but tried
to remind my players at least once a session, that lonestar was
around. Any time your players are in a normal neighborhood,
highway, school, airport, donut shop :), etc they may
run into Lonestar officers. As a GM, I tried to use Lonestar to
1) Add color 2) Remind players, that violence and bloodshed
are not always the best solution 3) Make them think alittle bit.
If my players bombed a building...and it was in any reasonable
section of town, Lonestar will be asking questions. If you kill
a cop, and leave evidence behind, hunting you down will be
priority. Hell my current PC, has a LoneStar Sergent as a
potential girlfriend/contact. She proved useful last gaming
session, when I got her to pull a beat cop's report for me.
But all this takes alot of work on the GM and players part.

>I gotta know, cause frankly, all the talk about Spell Permits is
>boring the socks offa me.
Amen to that.

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Message no. 30
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:22:04 -0400
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:35:48 PDT "Drea O'Dare" <dreaodare@*******.COM>
writes:
> "Only one man would give me the raspberry!"

I using all of my willpower to resist responding with another Spaceballs
reference. Whew.

> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
>the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
>months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
>or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.

Exclusion? Not in my games. Heh. The runners take great pains to make
sure of what Lone Star is doing. Police have a habit of being in places
that're so darned inconvienient for criminal-types.

> I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
>sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
>AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
>possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
>you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?

In the world of orks, trolls and other fantasy-type stuff, I use Lone
Star to enforce reality.
One of my players is running a troll mercenary who calls himself an
investigator. Another is an elf weapons specialist. Both seem to get
hard-ons over heavy weapons. They're going to quickly discover you can't
just bop on down the street swinging light machine guns and grenade
launchers without inviting comment.

> And there's Knight Errant too. Can't forget about them. Anyway, this
>is mostly to ask "So....anyone else notice this kinda trend? Or is it
just me?"

Oh, it would seem to me Knight Errant is a staple of security forces
everywhere, especially private properties. Not to mention Ares
compounds.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"You were wandering down Tacoma with a Vindicator and you didn't think
anyone would notice!?"

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Message no. 31
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:11:11 -0400
At 08:35 AM 10/8/98 PDT, you wrote:
>
> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
>the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
>months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
>or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.

It is fairly common.

I use Lone Star in two ways. First, if they've done something while on a
'run, like fire unsilenced firearms, and are simply taking too long, the
PC's suddenly hear sirens in the distance...which is my clue to them to get
their asses in gear. Rarely do they not take the hint.

Second, you have to remember that with their fairly limited resources (much
as with LAPD today), they have to have some reason to pull someone over.

Now perhaps that reason is they are speeding. Or that the Lone Star
officer can see illegal weapons and faces covered with ski masks inside the
runner's car. Or a bunch of trolls driving around the really nice parts of
town in a shot-up van at 3 in the morning.

Those are all valid reasons for a traffic stop. But if the runners are
being good (i.e., professional and smart), they are leaving the scene of
the crime with their weapons out of sight, have removed their ski masks or
helmets, and are driving the speed limit and obeying all traffic laws. In
that case, there's really no logical reason for Lone Star or Knight Errant
or NYPD Inc or whoever to pull them over. Even the most crooked and
vicious cops have to have *some* sort of reason or validation for pulling a
traffic stop.

FYI, most cops hate traffic stops. They hate writing tickets, they hate
the whole thing. They'd much rather be busting burlgars or "real"
criminals. Unless of course, you're doing something really stupid.

> I gotta know, cause frankly, all the talk about Spell Permits is
>boring the socks offa me.

I was a part of it and I'm glad it seems to have died...

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 32
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:17:24 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-08 12:31:27 EDT, you write:

<< I using all of my willpower to resist responding with another Spaceballs
reference. Whew. >>

I just blew my willpower roll, so I gotta ask.... Didya use the Swartz to
help ya with that???

And now on with the show.... and the Star.

Far to many charecters, (myself included up until my last run) consider the
Star like orcs from D&D. They're a minor nusance who can be counted on to
show up at the worst possible times. Far to many, (again formerly including
myself) consider them one step above cannon fodder. After having a charecter
forcebly retired cause he went to prison for life without possibility of
parole cause he kept offing 'Star till he got caught, Ive been a lot more
paranoid about just trying to avoid contact with them period!

And after all, the best run is one in which your target never figured out what
happened, or that you were ever there at all.
Message no. 33
From: Machine-gun Kelly <mgkelly@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:53:02 -0500
> If you
> kill
> a cop, and leave evidence behind, hunting you down will be
> priority.

And one other thing, if you kill a cop (doesn't matter if it's Lone
Star, Knight Errant or [God Forbid] a Federal Agent), you WILL NOT live
to stand trial (just like in Real Life). You will be shot resisting
arrest, shot while trying to escape, or "killed by another inmate" while
awaiting processing.

And every cop in North America will know that you killed a cop.

And if the cop's partner or the vid-cam in the patrol car or on top of a
streetlight got a pic of you, they'll know your face as well.


Mgkelly
--
"Shoot it! If it's still moving, shoot it again! If it's STILL moving
after that, run like Hell! You don't want to know the answer!"
Message no. 34
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:25:29 +0200
According to Drea O'Dare, at 8:35 on 8 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> "Only one man would give me the raspberry!"

Let's JAM the radar! :)

> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
> the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
> months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
> or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.
> I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
> sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
> AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
> possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
> you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?

Most definitely. If the GM isn't using them as a threat to players who
think they can get away with anything, something is not quite right.
Preferably, Lone Star should not show up in a game at all, of course (I'm
saying this both as a player and a GM) but the _thought_ of them making an
appearance should scare the players enough to get moving.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 35
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:20:32 -0400
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:53:02 -0500 Machine-gun Kelly <mgkelly@****.COM>
writes:

>And every cop in North America will know that you killed a cop.

I think this will still hold true in the SR world of 2050-60. While I
doubt that Lone Star jumps at the oppurtunity to share info with, say,
Eagle Security, there'red some things that cops just pass *on* and
cop-killers are one of 'em. So it's not just the secfolks in Seattle (or
wherever) who're looking to burn you down, it's all over. I plan to make
my players fear the Star.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"Everything I ever needed to know I learned from Spaceballs: Evil will
always triumph because good is dumb."


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Message no. 36
From: Penta <cpenta@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:58:22 -0700
Machine-gun Kelly wrote:

> > If you
> > kill
> > a cop, and leave evidence behind, hunting you down will be
> > priority.
>
> And one other thing, if you kill a cop (doesn't matter if it's Lone
> Star, Knight Errant or [God Forbid] a Federal Agent), you WILL NOT live
> to stand trial (just like in Real Life). You will be shot resisting
> arrest, shot while trying to escape, or "killed by another inmate" while
> awaiting processing.
>
> And every cop in North America will know that you killed a cop.
>
> And if the cop's partner or the vid-cam in the patrol car or on top of a
> streetlight got a pic of you, they'll know your face as well.

Forget North America...the WORLD. I remember reading a story a few years
back about what happened to a guy who'd escaped to, I believe Israel, after
killing a cop in a *very* gruesome fashion, after a traffic stop. When he
got caught by the cops around there...He was reportedly beaten into a very
bloody paste, tagteamed by the cops, a few local MPs, and a few Secret
Service-type people. *NOBODY* from the US embassy complained...Hell,
according to the person I heard it from(he's since dropped off the face of
the Earth to the best of my knowledge, unfortunately.), the Legal Attache
made sure to buy those guys a *lot* of beer. Once a player kills a cop, he
shouldn't be safe ANYWHERE.

JCP
Message no. 37
From: nocturnal@*******.NET
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:39:09 +0000
Penta wrote:
>
> Forget North America...the WORLD. I remember reading a story a few years
> back about what happened to a guy who'd escaped to, I believe Israel, after
> killing a cop in a *very* gruesome fashion, after a traffic stop. When he
> got caught by the cops around there...He was reportedly beaten into a very
> bloody paste, tagteamed by the cops, a few local MPs, and a few Secret
> Service-type people. *NOBODY* from the US embassy complained...Hell,
> according to the person I heard it from(he's since dropped off the face of
> the Earth to the best of my knowledge, unfortunately.), the Legal Attache
> made sure to buy those guys a *lot* of beer. Once a player kills a cop, he
> shouldn't be safe ANYWHERE.
>
> JCP

That's why playing as a PC cop is so fun... <grin>

Sure, they THINK you're on their side.... I mean, you are for the most part, until they do
something, like kill a cop in your presence- that's when you show them the power of a
Ruger Thunderbolt with EX explosive ammo... mmm, pasty, flaming, salsa...

Nocturnal
Message no. 38
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:18:15 +1000
At 08:59 AM 10/8/98 PDT, you wrote:
> for instance what if the characters get pulled
>over and a overenthusiastic player kills the cop? What if he had a
>partner that was waiting in the car and saw the characters faces? Then
>the characters would be seen as "cop killers" and hunted down.
>Megacorps and criminal orginazations arent the only one who hold a
>grudge.
>

What would happen is that every Fast Response Team, SWAT Team,
Mage Cop & Beat Cop would be out for your characters blood.
Commit the most hideous crime and some cops will not be phased
but ice one of their own, even one who was an absolute asshole
and they all hated, and you have the power of a legal army just
waiting for you to "resist arrest"

On another point how many time have your players actually been
in a confrontation with the star and not shot their way out of it?
Recently a character in our group was arrested and framed
for BTL pushing. It took us several sessions to clear his name
but we did it without actually shooting any cops. We had real
fun though when the character that was arrested put through
a call to a contact and had them arrange a lawyer. Who should
turn up but Mr Kobyashi, Toronto's best criminal criminal laywer.
Talk about the GM milking our nuyen supplies. You want to de-cash
your characters then make one of them need a lawyer. Urrghhh.

Tim Burke
Brisbane, Australia
ranger@********.com.au
Message no. 39
From: Jennifer Baker <Oxyria@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:28:57 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-08 11:36:36 EDT, Drea O'Dare wrote:

<< I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right? >>

Lone Star doesn't particularly scare my team, although we've had info on us
leaked to them more than once (b/4 our decker decided she wanted a look at
their system and then stayed to play around). We always managed to talk our
way out of anything they came up with, until our GM threw a new twist on it --
Lone Star pulled us over (and, as good law-abiding people who had a good
amount of bribe money with them, we stopped), walked up, and calmly shot our
driver... sometime between that moment and the next, when a large group of
black-clad people jumped out of the alleys and started firing on us, we
figured out that it was, just perhaps, a trap. Since then, we've been very
paranoid - not of Lone Star itself, but of what might be dressing up as Lone
Star...

Jennie
Message no. 40
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:20:58 +1000
>made sure to buy those guys a *lot* of beer. Once a player kills a cop, he
>shouldn't be safe ANYWHERE.

Or anywhere that's on really close terms with the nation where the crime
was committed, anyway.

And I still don't think a guy who shot an American cop would get pasted by
the local cops in, say, Britain or Australia.

Lady Jestyr

- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
- with words in the proper order why can't he? -
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 41
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:41:31 -0400
At 08:20 AM 10/9/98 +1000, you wrote:

>And I still don't think a guy who shot an American cop would get pasted by
>the local cops in, say, Britain or Australia.

I don't know that an Oz cop would beat the crap out of guy who killed a
Yank cop, but I doubt he'd be quite as nice to the perp...stuff like
tightening the handcuffs a bit too much, exerting just a bit more force
than is required to subdue and to place them in the paddy wagon, keeping
them from going to the bathroom as quickly, that sort of thing. Very
commonly done by law officers when dealing with a perp that for whatever
reason they don't like. And exactly the sort of thing that would happen in
this case in all likelyhood.

And I think it's the *International* Fraternal Order of Police, or something.

>- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
>- with words in the proper order why can't he? -

Hey, you live on some swampy isolated planet by yourself for a few hundreds
years with only gruel to eat and you'd become a green midget with poor
grammar too!!

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 42
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:44:33 +0200
And so it came to happen that Jennifer Baker wrote:
----------
<snip>
> Lone Star doesn't particularly scare my team, although we've had info on
us
> leaked to them more than once (b/4 our decker decided she wanted a look
at
> their system and then stayed to play around). We always managed to talk
our
> way out of anything they came up with, until our GM threw a new twist on
it --
> Lone Star pulled us over (and, as good law-abiding people who had a good
> amount of bribe money with them, we stopped), walked up, and calmly shot
our
> driver... sometime between that moment and the next, when a large group
of
> black-clad people jumped out of the alleys and started firing on us, we
> figured out that it was, just perhaps, a trap. Since then, we've been
very
> paranoid - not of Lone Star itself, but of what might be dressing up as
Lone
> Star...

Nice, but in my opinion your GM does not that good in letting every copper
be bribed or fooled like this. Of course I do not want to chakllenge his
GM'ing abilities, but the Star should definetly not be a mere casher up for
the well fed Runners. The Star is one a big corporate and many of the blue
boys are actually proud (scary, ne) of theyre badges. So just simply, blah,
blah, blah, how much do you want is not allways an option. And sorry, a
copper who sees someone in a better than Redmond district that shows
oppenly a Firearm bigger than a wallet would certainly ask for a permission
of having it. At least once in a while and than it should take some real
sweat on the brow of the runner that he gets out without shooting everyone
that is in viccinity. And by the way, have you ever seen (or feeled
actually) a FRT in action, kinda scarry what those guys could do if they go
in for the unlucky criminal. Of course I know that don't scare that many
here, but even the normal FR-Team from the LS-book (I _realy_ love that
one!) unmodified is quite an obstackle for every team I say if it is not
properly prepared.
Uhm, if this sounds as personal offense to you, sorry it wasn't meant to be
like this, it just carried away with me as I once played a Undercovercop in
another group and me thinks some of this "Pride of Texas" hasn't left me
even now. I realy like the Star (from a certain point, best two to three
blocks away;o)) and when someone is making them stand there like all can be
bribed and the law is nothing that is to be ensured I am a bit "picky".
OTOH, there _are_ the black sheep, think you had luck till now. Hope you'l
have it in the future though.
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 43
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:46:46 +1000
>>And I still don't think a guy who shot an American cop would get pasted by
>>the local cops in, say, Britain or Australia.
>
>I don't know that an Oz cop would beat the crap out of guy who killed a
>Yank cop, but I doubt he'd be quite as nice to the perp...stuff like
>tightening the handcuffs a bit too much, exerting just a bit more force
>than is required to subdue and to place them in the paddy wagon, keeping
>them from going to the bathroom as quickly, that sort of thing. Very
>commonly done by law officers when dealing with a perp that for whatever
>reason they don't like. And exactly the sort of thing that would happen in
>this case in all likelyhood.

Oh, absolutely. When I re-read what I sent, I realised it sounded like I
thought he'd get off scot-free. Definitely not, but he's not going to get
utterly messed-up like that guy in Israel did.

>And I think it's the *International* Fraternal Order of Police, or something.

It's the Global Donut Force! :)

</bigot ;)>

>>- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
>>- with words in the proper order why can't he? -
>
>Hey, you live on some swampy isolated planet by yourself for a few hundreds
>years with only gruel to eat and you'd become a green midget with poor
>grammar too!!

<scientist look> Do you have empirical proof of this, Mr. Jameson?

;-)

Lady Jestyr

- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
- with words in the proper order why can't he? -
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 44
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:02:21 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-08 18:42:27 EDT, you write:

<< I don't know that an Oz cop would beat the crap out of guy who killed a
Yank cop, but I doubt he'd be quite as nice to the perp...stuff like
tightening the handcuffs a bit too much, exerting just a bit more force
than is required to subdue and to place them in the paddy wagon, keeping
them from going to the bathroom as quickly, that sort of thing. Very
commonly done by law officers when dealing with a perp that for whatever
reason they don't like. And exactly the sort of thing that would happen in
this case in all likelyhood. >>

I agree that they would just love to be able to shoot you for resisting arrest
or attempting to escape, but if you play it smart they cant really do to much.
Think about it. WIth the prevalance in police brutality lawsuits, more and
more patrol units are carrying cameras. These cameras monitor the traffic
stops, amoung other things. The cops use this to prove false cases of police
brutality, because all the action is clearly videotaped. Taking this fact
forward 61 years, and extrapolating, not only would their be the same sort of
systems in the cars (only much smaller and probobly not really realized by
john q public) but general paranoia would expand such montioring to the whole
police station. This means that they CAN"T accidentally have you fall UP a
flight of stairs without incriminating themselves. Which means that their
poor treatment of you would have limits.

I'm not saying that they wouldnt be nice to you (cause they wouldnt. no way
in drek, chummer) but there is a limit to the level of nastyness which they
could inflict upon you. Also note that while the info may get passed around,
the odds are that the cops wont place you as a cop killer until after youve
been booked and tossed in a holding cell. Which makes the chances of getting
"accidentaly shot" much less, but still doesnt eliminate the possibility of
them making a deal with some prisoner to knife you in exchange for screwing up
their case. The chances of this would really be in proportion to how heinous
your rep is.
Message no. 45
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:17:54 -0400
At 08:46 AM 10/9/98 +1000, you wrote:

>>And I think it's the *International* Fraternal Order of Police, or
something.
>
>It's the Global Donut Force! :)

Hehehe...my buddy who's LAPD doesn't much care for doughnuts actually...but
he only just finished his first year, so give him time...

Seriously though, the reality of the fat, lazy cop munchking on doughnuts
is a rapidly disappearing breed; at least here in LAPD, they've been
getting much tougher on cops that slip out of shape. You're almost more
likely to find a bodybuilder/marathoner/boxer/whatever inside that blue
uniform than a lazy slob anymore.

Personally, I can't remember the last time I saw an overweight officer of
the law, LAPD or LA County Sheriff.

>>>- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
>>>- with words in the proper order why can't he? -
>>
>>Hey, you live on some swampy isolated planet by yourself for a few hundreds
>>years with only gruel to eat and you'd become a green midget with poor
>>grammar too!!
>
><scientist look> Do you have empirical proof of this, Mr. Jameson?

Who me? No, I've not satisfied any of the above requirements. However, I
used to date this girl who's brother had a friend who's hair dresser's
mother's sister knew a guy that had this happen to him. I swear it's true,
every last bit. So it's real Madame Jestyr!

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 46
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:31:10 -0400
Quoting Micheal Feeney (Starrngr@***.COM):
> I agree that they would just love to be able to shoot you for resisting arrest
> or attempting to escape, but if you play it smart they cant really do to much.
> Think about it. WIth the prevalance in police brutality lawsuits, more and
> more patrol units are carrying cameras. These cameras monitor the traffic
> stops, amoung other things. The cops use this to prove false cases of police
> brutality, because all the action is clearly videotaped. Taking this fact
> forward 61 years, and extrapolating, not only would their be the same sort of
> systems in the cars (only much smaller and probobly not really realized by
> john q public) but general paranoia would expand such montioring to the whole
> police station. This means that they CAN"T accidentally have you fall UP a
> flight of stairs without incriminating themselves. Which means that their
> poor treatment of you would have limits.

Unless you don't have a SIN, in which case there's no record that they
ever arrested you in the first place ("Who? No, we've never seen him. If we'd
arrested him, we'd have issued him a criminal SIN.")
Or unless you REALLY piss them off, in which case they can just
edit the chip. If you're dead, you can't argue, and guess what? Lone Star
is a corporation, and their jails are on their turf. I wonder if they have
extraterritoriality...I'm not sure whether they're big enough or not.
In order for the evidence to mean anything (or for altered evidence
to be noticed), someone has to care enough to look into it after you're
dead. If the dead body was a shdowrunner, society as a whole (as personified
by the courts) just isn't going to care much. I'm guessing the Star doesn't
have anywhere near as much oversight asr current police forces do. If you
have the resources to keep track of what they're doing, you'd probably have
built your own police force in the first place, instead of contracting out.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 47
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:52:44 -0400
Quoting Tim Burke (ranger@********.COM.AU):
> On another point how many time have your players actually been
> in a confrontation with the star and not shot their way out of it?
> Recently a character in our group was arrested and framed
> for BTL pushing. It took us several sessions to clear his name
> but we did it without actually shooting any cops. We had real
> fun though when the character that was arrested put through
> a call to a contact and had them arrange a lawyer. Who should
> turn up but Mr Kobyashi, Toronto's best criminal criminal laywer.
> Talk about the GM milking our nuyen supplies. You want to de-cash
> your characters then make one of them need a lawyer. Urrghhh.

First point: If your GM ever says to you, "Your lawyer,
Mr. Kobayashi, is here to see you", just bend over and grip your ankles
tightly. You're in for a long day. (Am I the only person who recognizes
the name of Keyser Soze's lawyer from _The Usual Suspects_? I can't
be. ANY reference to that movie by a Shadowrun GM means that the players
had better just start running.)
To answer your question, though, no. No, I've never seen an
encounter with Lone Star not turn into a fight. In fact, there was the
last scene of our previous campaign....
Okay, so the characters are headed out to the Warrens (in Denver)
to *cough* take care of some business, the retrieval of (they think) a
runaway scientist who extracted himself and is waiting to be picked up.
They're not really sure if they're picking him up for his old employers
or his new ones, but hey, that's life. They figure they'll just stun
him and bag him, and it won't matter either way. But on their way into
the Warrens, they run into a Lone Star roadblock...it appears that the
Star is blocking off the entirety of the Warrens from outside traffic,
and they won't say why...and nor will they let anyone by.
Being pretty savvy, the characters start with some storytelling
and try to convince the two officers to let them by - shooting would be
bad, because there's a whole load off Star folks out tonight doing
SOMETHING with the Warrens, so response time would be pretty darn short.
The mage, clever boy that he was, helps out with a little Emotion Control,
and the officers are moved to tears by the plight of the runner's poor
younger cousin, who's picked tonight of all nights to go slumming in the
Warrens with friends, and can't you see that we HAVE to find him and bring him
back? His (rich, powerful) parents would be so embarassed if he were noticed,
or if anything happened to him.
So moved, in fact, that they say they'll come along with us. Oops.
So that was fine until the NEXT batch of officers showed up - there
were two rings of roadblocks, I think, and of course 'our' officers radioed
ahead. It ended up with all of the runners outside the vehicle and
unarmed (because the weapons were hidden inside), arguing with a half-dozen
armed Star officers. Naturally, it turned out that the disturbance tied in
with the run...that scientist was (as the runners knew, and were somewhat
concerned about) a bioweapon researcher, and as it turned out, he'd gone
to the warrens in order to have sufficient test subjects for his batch of
VITAS-4, or something similarly nasty. Lone Star was out (with reinforcements
from Ares, I think) to contain what they thought was going to be an epidemic.
The characters had just about negotiated an agreement ("We tell you
everything we know about this guy, turn around, and go home, and you just
forget we were ever here") when one of the PCs got impatient with the
lead officer's desire to 'escort' them back to the city, decided there
was some sort of far-future threat of surveillance or something, and
said something like "No, no deal. You'll just have to fucking arrest us".
So of course they tried.
It went downhill from there.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 48
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:30:27 -0500
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:35:48 PDT "Drea O'Dare" <dreaodare@*******.COM>
writes:
> "Only one man would give me the raspberry!"

hunh?

> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star. That's
>the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
>months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've seen
>or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.
> I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
>sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
>AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested (and
>possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
>you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?
> And there's Knight Errant too. Can't forget about them. Anyway, this
>is mostly to ask "So....anyone else notice this kinda trend? Or is it
>just me?"
> I gotta know, cause frankly, all the talk about Spell Permits is
>boring the socks offa me.

I love tossing in Lone Star. In my home games (in Limbo), I've GMed
twice and used Lone Star in the runs twice.

First, one of the runners is about to interogate someone and the
interogatee passes out (Cyanide capsule) and so he races him to the
hospital. LS pulls him over for speeding and later arrests him (No
driver's liscense :). (He called in a favor to get off.)

Second, the Sam was hunting down his Street Doc (Who thought he was Maria
Mecurial) and shot a body guard at the back entrance of a club then hung
around at the front. (moron.) Star shows up and he gets away (With a
Serious wound).

I love tossing in Lone Star.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 49
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:29:52 +1000
>And I still don't think a guy who shot an American cop would get pasted by
>the local cops in, say, Britain or Australia.
>
>Lady Jestyr

Unless, of course, he was in Victoria (that's in Australia for those of
you how're geographically challenged like myself). Then, regardless of the
fact of what he did or who he was (hell you just have to look vaguely scary
for the Victorian Police to have a go at you), he'd be shot at and killed
in an 'accidental misfiring of a cop's gun'. Then the cop that did it
would be forced to seek psychological counciling (read as 'two or three
weeks of paid vacation').

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 50
From: Machine-gun Kelly <mgkelly@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:48:25 -0500
> Forget North America...the WORLD. I remember reading a story
> a few years
> back about what happened to a guy who'd escaped to, I
> believe Israel, after
> killing a cop in a *very* gruesome fashion, after a traffic
> stop. When he
> got caught by the cops around there...He was reportedly
> beaten into a very
> bloody paste, tagteamed by the cops, a few local MPs, and a
> few Secret
> Service-type people. *NOBODY* from the US embassy
> complained...

I'm not sure how cops in most European countries would respond to a
cop-killer, but i know that they do tend to end up dead here in the U.S.
It's not done as publicly as in Israel, but we aren't surrounded by
enemies on six sides.
The Israelis have something of a bad-ass reputation amongst military and
police circles. They have to, because of the aforementioned reason of
being completely surrounded. And nobody frags with the Israelis anymore
(excluding fanatics that will run into a crowded marketplace and blow up
civilians along with themselves.)

Mgkelly
--
"Shoot it! If it's still moving, shoot it again! If it's STILL moving
after that, run like Hell! You don't want to know the answer!"
Message no. 51
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:24:37 +0000
> I'm not sure how cops in most European countries would respond to a
> cop-killer, but i know that they do tend to end up dead here in the U.S.
> It's not done as publicly as in Israel, but we aren't surrounded by
> enemies on six sides.

Can only report for Sweden. There are NO cop-killers on the loose.
They have a tendency to get caught extremely quickly. So I guess that
means that they take care of themself and make a crap job helping the
rest of us when we need them.

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 52
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:37:18 +1000
Sean McCrohan writes:
> Or unless you REALLY piss them off, in which case they can just
> edit the chip. If you're dead, you can't argue, and guess what? Lone Star
> is a corporation, and their jails are on their turf. I wonder if they have
> extraterritoriality...I'm not sure whether they're big enough or not.

Here's a couple of things to consider:
1) Yep, Lone Star is extraterritorial.

2) Extraterritorality does not necessarily apply to all holdings of an
extraterritorial corp. The nation must recognise each and every such holding
seperately.

3) Would _you_ make the stations and jails extraterritorial? Sure, Lone Star
HQ would be, but I'd imagine most of the station houses and remand centres
are not, simply because the government wouldn't recognise them as such. In
fact, Lone Star wouldn't own the station houses. Most likely, they're the
former police station houses, still owned by the city or state government,
and leased to Lone Star (note: Leased premises can still be
extraterritorial). The government would turn around and say "Hey, we're
paying you to enforce the law. We're even letting you use our cop stations.
Now you want the law not to apply in those cop stations and jails? Hmm... I
wonder what Knight Errant charges for municipal law enforcement these days?"

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 53
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:30:10 +1000
> Unless, of course, he was in Victoria (that's in Australia for those of
>you how're geographically challenged like myself). Then, regardless of the
>fact of what he did or who he was (hell you just have to look vaguely scary
>for the Victorian Police to have a go at you), he'd be shot at and killed
>in an 'accidental misfiring of a cop's gun'. Then the cop that did it
>would be forced to seek psychological counciling (read as 'two or three
>weeks of paid vacation').

Actually, the NSW [Australia again] cops are rapidly becoming nearly as
notorious - such as the (perhaps semi-apocryphal) incident where a cop shot
a guy who turned out _not_ to be a threat. The cop was asked in the
subsequent investigation why he'd shot the guy, and why he'd fired so many
times. The cop claimed that he'd panicked, and, in fear for his life, just
unloaded the gun into the perp. Reasonable behaviour for someone in fear of
their life, fine...

... except for the two facts:
1) The dead guy had been shot in the _back_.
2) There were eight bullets in this guy - from the cop's six-shot revolver.

;)

Lady Jestyr

- In the force if Yoda's so strong, then construct a sentence -
- with words in the proper order why can't he? -
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 54
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:43:25 +0200
And so it came to happen that Sean McCrohan wrote:
----------

> Quoting Micheal Feeney (Starrngr@***.COM):
> > I agree that they would just love to be able to shoot you for resisting
arrest
> > or attempting to escape, but if you play it smart they cant really do
to much.
> > Think about it. WIth the prevalance in police brutality lawsuits, more
and
> > more patrol units are carrying cameras. These cameras monitor the
traffic
> > stops, amoung other things. The cops use this to prove false cases of
police
> > brutality, because all the action is clearly videotaped. Taking this
fact
> > forward 61 years, and extrapolating, not only would their be the same
sort of
> > systems in the cars (only much smaller and probobly not really realized
by
> > john q public) but general paranoia would expand such montioring to the
whole
> > police station. This means that they CAN"T accidentally have you fall
UP a
> > flight of stairs without incriminating themselves. Which means that
their
> > poor treatment of you would have limits.
>
> Unless you don't have a SIN, in which case there's no record that
they
> ever arrested you in the first place ("Who? No, we've never seen him. If
we'd
> arrested him, we'd have issued him a criminal SIN.")
> Or unless you REALLY piss them off, in which case they can just
> edit the chip. If you're dead, you can't argue, and guess what? Lone Star
> is a corporation, and their jails are on their turf.

Most jails where in federal hands, only a few where owned by corporations,
although this may have changed from the time Papillon has posted that in
the Shadowtalksection of the LoneStar book back in 2054. (LS, page 104, 2nd
column). Dirk M. has posted on the same page that the Star is trying to get
the rights to run the facilities, so back than the Star had them not, or at
least only some. But now we do not know, I hope they are in the feds hands.

> I wonder if they have
> extraterritoriality...I'm not sure whether they're big enough or not.

Sure, they should have extrateritiory, but not in the precincts where most
of the coppers are. LS is not only the blue boys, there are several other
wings of the corporate arm, and those that are not having the job to serve
for the feds, like R&D, would probably be on grounds that grant them
extraterritory. LS may not be that big like one of the 8 tripple A's back
in 2058, but they are sure big enough to gain extraterritorial status.
Although, I must admit, this is pure speculation.

> In order for the evidence to mean anything (or for altered
evidence
> to be noticed), someone has to care enough to look into it after you're
> dead. If the dead body was a shdowrunner, society as a whole (as
personified
> by the courts) just isn't going to care much. I'm guessing the Star
doesn't
> have anywhere near as much oversight asr current police forces do. If you
> have the resources to keep track of what they're doing, you'd probably
have
> built your own police force in the first place, instead of contracting
out.

You bet the Star will have those watchers, although those would come not
only from the gouvernment as they sure want to know if those Nuyen are
spend in a healthy manner. They would also come from the Gringos who'd love
to be in the contract like Knight Errant par example.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 55
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:46:57 +0200
My former reply to the Thread should be that Michael Feeney posted that,
NOT Sean McCrohan. Sorry guys, lack of Caffein.
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 56
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:23:07 -0400
Quoting Machine-gun Kelly (mgkelly@****.COM):
> I'm not sure how cops in most European countries would respond to a
> cop-killer, but i know that they do tend to end up dead here in the U.S.
> It's not done as publicly as in Israel, but we aren't surrounded by
> enemies on six sides.

Cop-killers occasionally even survive in the US. Some of you may
recall an incident here in Atlanta, maybe 6-12 months ago - it made CNN.
A fellow in the apartment complex next to mine took exception to
the presence of two officers on his doorstep (they were responding to a domestic
incident call, and had intended to escort his girlfriend, who he had
reportedly abused, into the house to get her things). He shot both of them,
then continued on to shoot one of them in the head as they lay bleeding
on the ground. IIRC, he was using some sort of semi-automatic rifle. I was
home at the time, and about 50 feet away (my back door faces his, across
a narrow parking lot, but this was all happening at his front door), and
heard the shots, but didn't recognize them - in retrospect, I wish I'd
gone with my first instinct and called the police, rather than saying 'nah,
couldn't have been' and going back to what I was doing.
Fortunately, one of the officers got out a partial report before
she was shot - at least, enough to let the dispatcher know that SOMETHING
was wrong. And, again fortunately, I live about 2 blocks from the nearest
precinct house. Someone came to investigate, and then all of a sudden,
there were cops EVERYWHERE. And I mean everywhere. The shooter had returned
to his house, and locked himself inside, and outside, ity was cops, cops,
cops, everywhere you looked. My girlfriend was out buying groceries when this
all started, and when she tried to get home, they wouldn't let her in - they
had cordoned off the entire area. She was, erm, understandably nervous.
A SWAT sniper asked to come into my house and take a look at the
sight lines from my bedroom window, but as it turned out, the bookshelves
I'd put up to block out the light (I was on night shift frequentl, back then)
made it impossible for him to get a good shot, and he went elsewhere.
Strange thing - all of the SWAT officers I saw were wearing green tactical
gear, not the black you traditionally expect. I'm not sure why.
It settled down into a standoff. I'm honestly not sure what kept
them from going in after him - they considered it several times, judging from
what I could see of the SWAT team around his back door - but they must
not have liked the situation at the time. Around 3 or 4 am, he finally
surrendered and came out...and wasn't shot. While I have no doubt that if
they had been forced to go in after him, he'd have been dead, he was taken
into custody and lived to stand trial. (DOn't think the case has actually
started yet, but he's had some pre-trial hearings and such).
Oh, despite being shot from near-point-blank, after already being
shot once from further away, the officer who made the radio call survived.

--Sean


--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 57
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:29:50 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, D. Ghost wrote:
/
/ On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:35:48 PDT "Drea O'Dare" <dreaodare@*******.COM>
/ writes:
/ > "Only one man would give me the raspberry!"
/
/ hunh?

Rent the movie "Spaceballs", directed by Mel Brooks :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 58
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:36:50 -0400
At 12:29 PM 10/9/98 +1000, you wrote:
>>And I still don't think a guy who shot an American cop would get pasted by
>>the local cops in, say, Britain or Australia.
>>
>>Lady Jestyr

Does it not stand to reason that police corps look out for their own
whether its an Austrailian, American, or Chinese branch of Lone Star? Cops
aren't nationals controlled by the government anymore.

But I don't think a Knight Errant Cop would care all that much about
whether a perp shot a Lone Star Cop.

But yeah, some cops would care much more than others.

(>)noysh the spoonë bard
-> jack of all trades, master of none. <-
Message no. 59
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:29:06 -0400
Sean McCrohan wrote:
>
> Strange thing - all of the SWAT officers I saw were wearing green tactical
> gear, not the black you traditionally expect. I'm not sure why.

Just a guess, but it's probably so they'd find it easier to recognize each
other. The criminals they'd be shooting *AT* would be more unlikely to
wear green than black -- and fast identification can be important when
things get confused.


> Oh, despite being shot from near-point-blank, after already being
> shot once from further away, the officer who made the radio call survived.

Wasn't she permanently disabled from it, or something? I do recall that
she was retiring from the force.

Huh. I don't think I've ever heard you tell this story, Sean. I
certainly didn't know it happened right next door to you. You're clearly
failing here in your duties to astound and entertain your friends. >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 60
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:33:10 -0500
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 8:40 AM

>But I don't think a Knight Errant Cop would care all that much about
>whether a perp shot a Lone Star Cop.

He might work for a competing law enforcement corporation, but he's still a
cop. This is one area where I see the different LE corps cooperating fully
with one another. I don't care if you're KE or the Star or any of the
smaller LE corps trying to make it, if you've got someone who's shot a cop
and he tries to flee to another corps jurisdiction, that other corp is going
to get a call from the corp who lost a man and the perp is not going to have
a good time of it. (I know more about cops than I care to, having dated a
couple in the past.)

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 61
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:18:41 -0400
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:36:50 -0400 Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
writes:

>Does it not stand to reason that police corps look out for their own
>whether its an Austrailian, American, or Chinese branch of Lone Star?
Cops
>aren't nationals controlled by the government anymore.

Well, of course if you geek a cop in Dallas where Lone Star works and
then flee to Seattle where Lone Star also works, they're going to come
after you and you probably won't survive. We're talking that if someone
killed a Lone Star officer, then people from Eagle Security would come
down on him like a ton of bricks, too.

>But I don't think a Knight Errant Cop would care all that much about
>whether a perp shot a Lone Star Cop.

Knight Errant's really more a security company that does buildings and
such, aren't they? I've never seen them do the policing for a whole
city.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"Guess what? Cop-killer bullets work just as well on criminals..."

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 62
From: "Christopher M. Coulter" <kamikaze@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:27:40 +0000
> Knight Errant's really more a security company that does buildings and
> such, aren't they? I've never seen them do the policing for a whole
> city.

Knight Errant were responsible for special individual security in the
situation in Bug City weren't they?

Christopher M. Coulter
Message no. 63
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:29:46 -0400
At 12:18 PM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Knight Errant's really more a security company that does buildings and
>such, aren't they? I've never seen them do the policing for a whole
>city.

Knight Errant hold the Policing contract in Detroit, UCAS. I don't know
about any other locales --but yes, KE does policing too.

>-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
>***********************************
>"Guess what? Cop-killer bullets work just as well on criminals..."

(>)noysh the spoonë bard
-> jack of all trades, master of none. <-
Message no. 64
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:38:11 -0400
Quoting Steve Eley (sfeley@***.NET):
> Huh. I don't think I've ever heard you tell this story, Sean. I
> certainly didn't know it happened right next door to you. You're clearly
> failing here in your duties to astound and entertain your friends. >8->

I think this may have been before I joined the SR game - I can't
remember now how long ago it was, precisely. I remember telling all of my
coworkers about it. It was strange...I couldn't really tell exactly
what was going on from where I was, and of course they didn't want people
wandering around outside. I had the TV on downstairs, with CNN on - there's
something sad about having to watch the TV to find out what's happening just
outside your own house.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 65
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:04:23 -0500
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sean McCrohan wrote:

<snip story>

> Strange thing - all of the SWAT officers I saw were wearing green tactical
> gear, not the black you traditionally expect. I'm not sure why.

Hmm was it light green with a dark green grid and random dark green
squares filled in?? I know that they have been working on night
camaflage and that greens have been found to be better than black.
Even at night it isnt PURE dark and a pure black object can be seen
from the contrast with the ambient light level. The green on green
pattern seems to work better, especialy against low light vision gear
and since they often inpregnate the uniforms with a IR supressent it
gives some benefit against IR goggles also.

> It settled down into a standoff. I'm honestly not sure what kept
> them from going in after him - they considered it several times, judging from
> what I could see of the SWAT team around his back door - but they must
> not have liked the situation at the time. Around 3 or 4 am, he finally
> surrendered and came out...and wasn't shot.

Well it is usualy standard procedure to take an arrest so the perp can
stand trial over just killing them outright (though the cops on the
scene might be worked up) unless the lives of inocents are at risk.
Did the guy have any hostages with him in the house? They usualy have
a criminal physcologist giving them advice on if/when they need to go
in shooting. In this case it sounds to me like the SWAT team was
ready to go in if nessisary but the Phsycologist thought (correctly)
he could talk him into surrendering.

Thomas Price
AKA The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
Message no. 66
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:15:42 -0400
At 09:23 AM 10/9/98 , you wrote:
> It settled down into a standoff. I'm honestly not sure what kept
>them from going in after him - they considered it several times, judging from
>what I could see of the SWAT team around his back door - but they must
>not have liked the situation at the time. Around 3 or 4 am, he finally
>surrendered and came out...and wasn't shot. While I have no doubt that if
>they had been forced to go in after him, he'd have been dead, he was taken
>into custody and lived to stand trial. (DOn't think the case has actually
>started yet, but he's had some pre-trial hearings and such).

Probably the reason that they didn't go in is that they never like going
in. When you do that, you've lost some control of the situtaion. Say that
they had decided to storm the place and the idiot had started firing away
from in the apartment. Then one of those rounds strays far and goes through
your apartment, through that bookcase and through you. Every cop I've ever
talked to would say that they want that guy to give up, not only so they
don't get shot but no one else does either.

I don't know what the law is down in Florida, but in Texas they would want
to take him alive. That way they can have a nice publicity filled trial
where he's convicted and sent to the gas chamber. That way all of the
potential cop-killers out there know that if you kill a cop you don't go
out in a blaze of glory. You get to sit in a cell for a few years going
stir crazy, knowing that you're going to die, and then the gas you to death
like a rat.

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!
Message no. 67
From: Jester <jester@**********.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:23:44 +0200
At 20:25, 8 Oct 98, Jester was told by Gurth:

> Most definitely. If the GM isn't using them as a threat to players who
> think they can get away with anything, something is not quite right.
> Preferably, Lone Star should not show up in a game at all, of course (I'm
> saying this both as a player and a GM) but the _thought_ of them making an
> appearance should scare the players enough to get moving.

It sure works with us. Martijn almost wets his pants when he hears
the word "Lone Star":)

--
We need a body. Shoot the mage!.

Jester
<jester@**********.nl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
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Y PGP- t+ 5+++ X+ R+>++ tv++ b+++ DI? D- G e>+ h! r++ y+
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Message no. 68
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:25:43 -0400
Quoting Sommers (sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU):
> Probably the reason that they didn't go in is that they never like going
> in. When you do that, you've lost some control of the situtaion. Say that
> they had decided to storm the place and the idiot had started firing away
> from in the apartment. Then one of those rounds strays far and goes through
> your apartment, through that bookcase and through you. Every cop I've ever
> talked to would say that they want that guy to give up, not only so they
> don't get shot but no one else does either.

No question that they don't like going in if they don't have to -
after all, THEY could be shot, too. And I think you're right that all in
all, they'd prefer a nice public trial to discourage people from doing
that sort of thing.
However, I don't think they were too worried about stray shots
hitting folks over around me. They evacuated the row of townhouses the
guy was actually IN, but ours are brick...not impervious to bullets
by any means, but somewhat resistant.
Anyway...I'm not criticizing their decision - far from it. I was
just surprised by it...in their place, I think I'd have wanted to go in
and shoot the guy.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 69
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:34:03 -0400
At 01:25 PM 10/9/98 , you wrote:
> Anyway...I'm not criticizing their decision - far from it. I was
>just surprised by it...in their place, I think I'd have wanted to go in
>and shoot the guy.

It does take away a lot of your decision making ability. If you're able to
arrest the guy, you have the nice public trial and execution. Or, if he
happens to "fall down" a lot, or is "shot while trying to excape"
well,
these things happen. Once you shoot the guy on the scene, the decision is
pretty much made.

"He's dead, Jim."

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!
Message no. 70
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:35:34 -0400
Quoting The Bookworm (Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU):
> Hmm was it light green with a dark green grid and random dark green
> squares filled in?? I know that they have been working on night
> camaflage and that greens have been found to be better than black.
> Even at night it isnt PURE dark and a pure black object can be seen
> from the contrast with the ambient light level. The green on green
> pattern seems to work better, especialy against low light vision gear
> and since they often inpregnate the uniforms with a IR supressent it
> gives some benefit against IR goggles also.

It looked like it was a solid green, with no pattern - sort of a
neutral olive shade. It also was very obviously body armor, though naturally
I don't know what kind. It looked thick and semi-rigid, and could have
been plates inside a ballistic-cloth jacket, but I couldn't really tell
in the dark. They had the helmets you'd expect, along with, IIRC, clear
'riot' shields. The team by the door looked like they were armed with some
sort of SMG - I'm no more a gun expert than I am an armor expert, but it
looked vaguely like the pictures I've seen of the H&K...MP-5? Something like
that. Might not have been that specific weapon, but something in the same
class.
My memories are pretty vague at this point, though at the time, it
certainly had all of my attention :) The main thing I brought away from
it all was a habit of actually CALLING the cops when I hear what sounds
like gunfire outside. I figure it's better to waste their time if I'm
wrong than to possibly leave another officer - or ordinary citizen - lying
on the street bleeding to death.

--Sean


--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 71
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:35:49 -0500
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 12:16 PM

>I don't know what the law is down in Florida, but in Texas they
>would want to take him alive. That way they can have a nice
>publicity filled trial where he's convicted and sent to the gas
>chamber.

Minor point of order: Texas doesn't use the gas chamber. We use lethal
injection. Everything else in your post is dead on. So to speak.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 72
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:37:52 -0500
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 12:35 PM

>The team by the door looked like they were armed with some
>sort of SMG - I'm no more a gun expert than I am an armor expert,
>but it looked vaguely like the pictures I've seen of the H&K...MP-5?

Very likely. The MP-5 is a very popular weapon with SWAT teams, I'm told.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 73
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:09:35 -0400
At 01:35 PM 10/9/98 , you wrote:
>>I don't know what the law is down in Florida, but in Texas they
>>would want to take him alive. That way they can have a nice
>>publicity filled trial where he's convicted and sent to the gas
>>chamber.
>
>Minor point of order: Texas doesn't use the gas chamber. We use lethal
>injection. Everything else in your post is dead on. So to speak.

Sorry. Texas uses injection. New York uses the gas chamber.

<dragging back on topic>
What does the UCAS/Lonestar/whoever use for the death penalty? Are there
facilities for casuing brain death, so that the body can be used fro
transplants/medical research/etc?

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!
Message no. 74
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:53:36 -0400
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sommers wrote:

->At 01:35 PM 10/9/98 , you wrote:
->>>I don't know what the law is down in Florida, but in Texas they
->>>would want to take him alive. That way they can have a nice
->>>publicity filled trial where he's convicted and sent to the gas
->>>chamber.
->>
->>Minor point of order: Texas doesn't use the gas chamber. We use lethal
->>injection. Everything else in your post is dead on. So to speak.
->
->Sorry. Texas uses injection. New York uses the gas chamber.
->
-><dragging back on topic>
->What does the UCAS/Lonestar/whoever use for the death penalty? Are there
->facilities for casuing brain death, so that the body can be used fro
->transplants/medical research/etc?

How about using Black IC?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 75
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:10:45 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-09 14:10:09 EDT, you write:

<< What does the UCAS/Lonestar/whoever use for the death penalty? Are there
facilities for casuing brain death, so that the body can be used fro
transplants/medical research/etc? >>

Ooooo... Yeah, I dont see any reason why there couldnt be something like
that. If they can design psychotropic black Ice, I dont see any reason why
they couldnt have something that does something similar.
Message no. 76
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:22:38 -0400
Fixer wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sommers wrote:
>
> ->What does the UCAS/Lonestar/whoever use for the death penalty? Are there
> ->facilities for casuing brain death, so that the body can be used fro
> ->transplants/medical research/etc?
>
> How about using Black IC?

Convicted murderers are probably less likely to have datajacks than the
public at large. Is the Star going to pay to surgically implant a
datajack, allow the convict some recovery time, and THEN kill him?

My guess would be either poison (gas or injection) or a spell.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 77
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:27:49 -0400
Quoting Steve Eley (sfeley@***.NET):
> > On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sommers wrote:
> >
> > ->What does the UCAS/Lonestar/whoever use for the death penalty? Are there
> > ->facilities for casuing brain death, so that the body can be used fro
> > ->transplants/medical research/etc?
> Convicted murderers are probably less likely to have datajacks than the
> public at large. Is the Star going to pay to surgically implant a
> datajack, allow the convict some recovery time, and THEN kill him?
>
> My guess would be either poison (gas or injection) or a spell.

I was having the same thought. Though it's likely that people in
2060 would fall into the same trap, remember that the fact that a technology
is old and relatively primitive doesn't mean it's not the best one for the job.
I think even you went too far, Steve - a spell? Not given how rare magicians
are.
Let's see, what are the criteria? It has to kill them. It has to
not be perceived, we'll assume, as being TOTALLY inhumane. It should be
cheap. It needs to leave the body itself as intact as possible, so as to
leave it available for medical use.
Lethal injection's not a bad idea, but there's always the possibility
that a trace of the poison will remain. You don't want toxins in your
replacement parts, or whatever you're using the body for. Use just enough
sedative to knock them out for an hour or so, then deprive them of oxygen
(a mask pumping something non-toxic like a normal atmospheric mixture of
nitrogen, C02, etc, minus the O2, should do it). Sedatives are cheap and
won't damage them, they literally die in their sleep (in fact, you wouldn't
even have to tell them it was their turn), and they'll be just as dead as
if you'd chopped of their head (which is ALSO a cheap method, but a bit
rough on your executioner).
My. What a cheerful conversation :) I'm sort of undecided on capital
punishment, IRL, but I'd predict that it would be much more popular in
SR's 2050's than it is today. The cryo-incarceration tricks that show up
in some cyberpunk books and sci-fi movies are interesting, also - if
the tech became cheap enough, it'd be more cost effective to put someone
on ice and pump their head full of simsense 're-education' or 'therapy'
than to maintain a jail. Prisons are expensive things.

--Sean
--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 78
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:46:50 -0400
Sean McCrohan wrote:
>
> I was having the same thought. Though it's likely that people in
> 2060 would fall into the same trap, remember that the fact that a technology
> is old and relatively primitive doesn't mean it's not the best one for the job.
> I think even you went too far, Steve - a spell? Not given how rare magicians
> are.

They're much more common in the Star and other law-enforcement outfits.
Given that executions wouldn't happen every day, even in 2060, it wouldn't
be tough to have a mage standing by with a specially-designed spell that
causes a fast, painless Deadly wound. One such mage could serve a whole
region, and it'd still be only a minor part of his/her job.

That's just me playing Devil's Advocate. >8-> On further consideration,
I decided that executions probably *wouldn't* happen with a spell -- not
because it's impractical, but because too many people still fear magic,
and might see its application as "cruel and unusual" even if it really
isn't, or have various religious objections.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 79
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:47:34 +0200
And so it came to happen that Christopher M. Coulter wrote:
----------
> > Knight Errant's really more a security company that does buildings and
> > such, aren't they? I've never seen them do the policing for a whole
> > city.
>
> Knight Errant were responsible for special individual security in the
> situation in Bug City weren't they?

Wasn't it Lone Eagle Security (White Eagle?) or such that held the Contract
for Chicago before that incident?

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 80
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:05:36 +1000
> I was having the same thought. Though it's likely that people in
>2060 would fall into the same trap, remember that the fact that a technology
>is old and relatively primitive doesn't mean it's not the best one for the
job.
>I think even you went too far, Steve - a spell? Not given how rare magicians
>are.
> Let's see, what are the criteria? It has to kill them. It has to
>not be perceived, we'll assume, as being TOTALLY inhumane. It should be
>cheap. It needs to leave the body itself as intact as possible, so as to
>leave it available for medical use.
> Lethal injection's not a bad idea, but there's always the possibility
>that a trace of the poison will remain. You don't want toxins in your
>replacement parts, or whatever you're using the body for. Use just enough
>sedative to knock them out for an hour or so, then deprive them of oxygen
>(a mask pumping something non-toxic like a normal atmospheric mixture of
>nitrogen, C02, etc, minus the O2, should do it). Sedatives are cheap and
>won't damage them, they literally die in their sleep (in fact, you wouldn't
>even have to tell them it was their turn), and they'll be just as dead as
>if you'd chopped of their head (which is ALSO a cheap method, but a bit
>rough on your executioner).
> My. What a cheerful conversation :) I'm sort of undecided on capital
>punishment, IRL, but I'd predict that it would be much more popular in
>SR's 2050's than it is today. The cryo-incarceration tricks that show up
>in some cyberpunk books and sci-fi movies are interesting, also - if
>the tech became cheap enough, it'd be more cost effective to put someone
>on ice and pump their head full of simsense 're-education' or 'therapy'

Okay, how about this for an idea: Biofeedback execution. A few thousand
nuyen for the initial tech and you'll knock 'em dead (sorry, I jsut had to
say it) - no datajack or anything else required.
On a similar vein, has anyone thought of the using Programmable ASIST
Biofeedback in criminal rehabilitation? Anyone got any thoughts on how
it'd be viewed? I mean, I'm assuming that with a PAB unit you can not only
alter memories but also alter motivations, urges, and the like (ala
Psychotropic IC), but it seems perfectly humane to me to simply remove
those psychotic motivations and replace them with good, healthy, wholesome
ones. Of course, there is the risk of the treatment wearing off, but
that's what parole officers are for. A couple of sessions every six month
period and the person should be fine - a "normal, healthy citizen" in all
regards.



- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 81
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:46:13 -0400
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At 01:05 PM 10/10/98 +1000, ARKHAM wrote:
> On a similar vein, has anyone thought of the using Programmable
ASIST
>Biofeedback in criminal rehabilitation?

The authors of the Lone Star Sourcebook. The answers to most of the
rest of your questions can be found there. :)

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Message no. 82
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:58:53 +1000
>The authors of the Lone Star Sourcebook. The answers to most of the
>rest of your questions can be found there. :)

Bah. One of the two books I've been unable to track down. I've got
everything else except Lone Star and Universal Brotherhood <sob>.
- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 83
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:07:30 -0500
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 12:05 AM

>>The authors of the Lone Star Sourcebook. The answers to most of the
>>rest of your questions can be found there. :)
>
> Bah. One of the two books I've been unable to track down. I've got
>everything else except Lone Star and Universal Brotherhood <sob>.

Find me a copy of CORPORATE SECURITY HANDBOOK in good shape, and I'll give
you my copy of UB in trade. All it's doing here is gathering dust.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 84
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:16:44 +1000
>Find me a copy of CORPORATE SECURITY HANDBOOK in good shape, and I'll give
>you my copy of UB in trade. All it's doing here is gathering dust.

As luck would have it, I happen to know of a gaming store in town that
has a few copies of the Corporate Security Handbook in stock still -
haven't even been taken out of the plastic. I'll see if I can get you one,
then we'll talk about that swap. =)

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 85
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:29:31 EDT
In a message dated 10/9/1998 8:24:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU writes:

> A SWAT sniper asked to come into my house and take a look at the
> sight lines from my bedroom window, but as it turned out, the bookshelves
> I'd put up to block out the light (I was on night shift frequentl, back
then)
>
> made it impossible for him to get a good shot, and he went elsewhere.
> Strange thing - all of the SWAT officers I saw were wearing green tactical
> gear, not the black you traditionally expect. I'm not sure why.

I snipped the rest of the story and I have an answer for you on the Green
Coloration as well. Green does not have the same lack of reflection that
Black does. The human eye will pick up and track in on absences of
light/color just as quickly as it will for objects that illuminated/colored.
It sounds strange, but it's true.

-K
Message no. 86
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:21:25 +0000
and thus did Sean McCrohan speak on 8 Oct 98 at 19:52:

> First point: If your GM ever says to you, "Your lawyer,
> Mr. Kobayashi, is here to see you", just bend over and grip your ankles
> tightly. You're in for a long day. (Am I the only person who recognizes
> the name of Keyser Soze's lawyer from _The Usual Suspects_? I can't
> be. ANY reference to that movie by a Shadowrun GM means that the players
> had better just start running.)

I just watched it for the first time yesterday :). If Kobayashi turns
up, you're hosed. You might as well put a gun to your head and
finish it right there, in the long run it won't matter anyway.
Running won't help you...

Kobayashi or Keyser Soze in a SR campaign is the sign of an Evil
Beyond Redemption (Not Even If You're His Son) GM.

It should be an excellent way to curb those runners who think they're
immortal. Hmmm, damn, I should have seen that film earlier. I suspect
that one of my players made sure I didn't...

Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 87
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:48:23 +0200
According to Steadfast, at 2:47 on 10 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Wasn't it Lone Eagle Security (White Eagle?) or such that held the Contract
> for Chicago before that incident?

Eagle Security is the name you're looking for, and you're mixing it up
with the "Lone Eagle" incident that involved native Americans, an ICBM,
Russia, and an apparent failure to detonate.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 88
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:48:23 +0200
According to Jester, at 19:23 on 9 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> It sure works with us. Martijn almost wets his pants when he hears
> the word "Lone Star":)

He gets scared of everyone who he thinks can be a threat him, and gets all
upset when they are and mess up his careful plans (which wouldn't have
worked half the time anyway). I must confess he drives me crazy sometimes
with his whining about these things (oh yeah, and be glad you weren't in
the game last night...).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 89
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:48:23 +0200
According to Shaun Gilroy, at 9:36 on 9 Oct 98, the word on the street
was...

> Does it not stand to reason that police corps look out for their own
> whether its an Austrailian, American, or Chinese branch of Lone Star? Cops
> aren't nationals controlled by the government anymore.
>
> But I don't think a Knight Errant Cop would care all that much about
> whether a perp shot a Lone Star Cop.

All that depends on a lot of factors. In these examples, the cops belong
to two (or more) different groups: their corporation, their nationality,
the branch within the corporation, their races, genders, and so on. You
can get really conflicting situations here:

* Lone Star helping Knight Errant because they're all police officers;
* A Lone Star going out of his way to help a Knight Errant, because
they're both humans being shot at by orks;
* Male Knight Errant officers helping a wounded female Lone Star (RL
example: women in the armed forces tend to get much more attention after
being wounded than men do in the same situation);
* LS beat cop helping KE beat cop who's on the bad side of a LS DPI mage
(because the LS cop doesn't like the DPI and can thus sympathize with the
KE cop)

and so on. There's a lot more at work than a simple "us vs. them" when
there are different kinds of "us."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 90
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:48:23 +0200
According to The Bookworm, at 12:04 on 9 Oct 98, the word on the street
was...

> Hmm was it light green with a dark green grid and random dark green
> squares filled in??

You mean the Parka, Night Camouflage, Desert and the trousers that go with
it? I doubt that'd get used by SWAT teams, as it's only effective at a
distance, and the parka isn't anything close to a normal fatigue jacket.
There are no pockets (just two flaps so you can reach the pockets of a
jacket worn underneath), it has a hood, and comes down to just above your
knees at the front (and even further at the back).

> I know that they have been working on night camaflage and that greens
> have been found to be better than black.

It works against image intensifiers (low-light systems in SR terms) pretty
well, but like I said, only at reasonable distances (100+ meters, IIRC).
"Look at this through NVGs and you _disappear_" an ex-US Army pilot told
me.

The design is at least 10-15 years old, and was worn in the Gulf War a
lot, where US and British soldiers liked the parka a lot for its warmth
(you can button a liner into the parka). I own one and wear it in the
temperatures we're having around here ATM; too bad it's not waterproof,
though. I need to find someone with an image intensifier and see if the
camo really works :)

> Well it is usualy standard procedure to take an arrest so the perp can
> stand trial over just killing them outright (though the cops on the
> scene might be worked up) unless the lives of inocents are at risk.

And especially when news cameras are looking on -- you can't execute the
criminal on the spot if half the country is watching you. At least, not
without public outcry (like with the Rodney King beating).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 91
From: Jester <jester@**********.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:24:36 +0200
At 12:48, 10 Oct 98, Jester was told by Gurth:

> He gets scared of everyone who he thinks can be a threat him, and gets all
> upset when they are and mess up his careful plans (which wouldn't have
> worked half the time anyway). I must confess he drives me crazy sometimes
> with his whining about these things (oh yeah, and be glad you weren't in
> the game last night...).

_Now_ I'm curious, come on tell me, beg, beg....:)

--
We need a body. Shoot the mage!.

Jester
<jester@**********.nl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 92
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:39:44 +0200
And so it came to happen that Gurth wrote:
----------
> > It sure works with us. Martijn almost wets his pants when he hears
> > the word "Lone Star":)
>
> He gets scared of everyone who he thinks can be a threat him, and gets
all
> upset when they are and mess up his careful plans (which wouldn't have
> worked half the time anyway). I must confess he drives me crazy sometimes
> with his whining about these things (oh yeah, and be glad you weren't in
> the game last night...).

Is it something to reanimate the Dumb Things Thread? If so, go on.
Pretty Please!

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 93
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:16:33 +0200
According to Steadfast, at 17:39 on 10 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Is it something to reanimate the Dumb Things Thread? If so, go on.
> Pretty Please!

No, it's about a guy I hope for your sake you've never played an RPG with
when he GMed :) The story's not funny (least of all for us, the players),
probably hard to understand if you don't know him, and it's OT -- so let's
leave it at that...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 94
From: Zebulin Magby <zebulingod@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:24:19 -0700
>> Okay, not that kinda Lone Star. The police kinda Lone Star.
That's
>> the point (ha!) of this little missive. I've noticed, over a few
>> months, the absolute exclusion of Lone Star from any game that I've
seen
>> or been in. I find it kinda weird, myself.
>> I mean, who thinks, anymore, that once they've gotten past the corp
>> sec and are making it back to Wong's Take Out to gloat over fooling
>> AzTech yet again, that they're going to be pulled over and arrested
(and
>> possibly shot at) by Lone Star? I mean, your Johnson might not screw
>> you over, but the boys in blue (or whatever) are still around, right?
>
>Most definitely. If the GM isn't using them as a threat to players who
>think they can get away with anything, something is not quite right.
>Preferably, Lone Star should not show up in a game at all, of course
(I'm
>saying this both as a player and a GM) but the _thought_ of them
making an
>appearance should scare the players enough to get moving.
>


My players commonly make sure that I realise that they can take down
any cops that I send at them. These are people who plant Claymores
around bar entrances to catch the cops when they show up to break up a
fight...scared by Lone Star, no I don't think they are.

Zebulin

PS: Yes, that was a direct thrust at a player of mine who's on the list.
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 95
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:04:24 EDT
In a message dated 10/10/1998 6:25:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
zebulingod@*****.COM writes:

>
> My players commonly make sure that I realise that they can take down
> any cops that I send at them. These are people who plant Claymores
> around bar entrances to catch the cops when they show up to break up a
> fight...scared by Lone Star, no I don't think they are.
>
Uh, WHAT!?!?! Claymores around the bar they go too??? Come on folks, I think
it's time this group gets treated as "Omega Sanction #3322" by the security
corporations of the world. No bartender would want them around (bad for
business), no Johnson would want them around ("What do you mean I can't leave
without having my legs blown off!!??!!"), and the nuissance to the general
public ("AAAHH!!! You BASTARDS!!! You Killed Kenny. And Stan. And Kyle.
And .... ;).

If they aren't afraid, then perhaps they needs a small lesson in fear. And
make it a remote one at that.

Say, rocks falling from the skies??? (aka: meteor showers???)

-K (I *feel* for you, I really do)
Message no. 96
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:01:08 -0500
On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Gurth wrote:

<Snip green on green grid cammo pattern>
> The design is at least 10-15 years old, and was worn in the Gulf War a
> lot, where US and British soldiers liked the parka a lot for its warmth
> (you can button a liner into the parka). I own one and wear it in the
> temperatures we're having around here ATM; too bad it's not waterproof,
> though. I need to find someone with an image intensifier and see if the
> camo really works :)

Hmm well im sure they have someone working somewhere to improve it. I
wonder what they have come up with in the last 10 years. Then again the
best stuff is sure to be a "black" research program and the public wont
get to see it for years if ever.

> > Well it is usualy standard procedure to take an arrest so the perp can
> > stand trial over just killing them outright (though the cops on the
> > scene might be worked up) unless the lives of inocents are at risk.
> And especially when news cameras are looking on -- you can't execute the
> criminal on the spot if half the country is watching you. At least, not
> without public outcry (like with the Rodney King beating).

Forgot about that. And in SR Lone Star and the other law enforcement
corperations will have to be especialy carefull about that since if public
opinion gets to bad the city might end up hiring the compitition to handle
law enforcement in the city come next contract renewal time.

Thomas Price
AKA The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
Message no. 97
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:29:26 -0500
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 9:06 PM

>Uh, WHAT!?!?! Claymores around the bar they go too??? Come on folks,
>I think it's time this group gets treated as "Omega Sanction #3322" by
>the security corporations of the world.

At the risk of bringing on the Apocalypse, I tend to concur. It's
definitely time for some drastic measures on the part of the GM to attract
the players' attention and indicate to them that it's not a good idea to go
this route. That, or it's time to find another GM.

>If they aren't afraid, then perhaps they needs a small lesson in fear.
>And make it a remote one at that.
>
>Say, rocks falling from the skies??? (aka: meteor showers???)

I've got a Terminator running around in my world. If the sniper I always
keep on the roof doesn't get trouble characters, he will. (Usually by the
time I have to sic the T-800 on them, they're close to ready to quit my game
anyway; he's usually not missed.) There's something about an opponent who
just keeps getting up after being shot and shot hard that frustrates them
after a while.... (More than this I shouldn't say; one of my players is on
the list. Hi, Steve.)

I like the stone-from-the-sky bit, though; will have to keep that in mind.

>-K (I *feel* for you, I really do)

As do I.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 98
From: Machine-gun Kelly <mgkelly@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 02:35:53 -0500
> My players commonly make sure that I realise that they can
> take down
> any cops that I send at them. These are people who plant
> Claymores
> around bar entrances to catch the cops when they show up to
> break up a
> fight...scared by Lone Star, no I don't think they are.

Not scared by the Star? Remember that dialogue exchange from Terminator
2?
"How many cops are outside?"
"Um, all of them I think."
The instant they grease a cop, they're going to end up dead. Especially
if they use heavy weapons and have been seen with obvious cyberware (and
I don't just mean a chrome arm. If they've been seen moving at
three-times normal [meta]human speed, it will be obvious that they most
likely have a reflex boost, given that PhysAds are more rare than Wired
Reflexes). An FRT squad might be given the duty of going after the team
expressly, since they have killed so many cops. The "Cyber-Psycho Squad"
(think Lone Star SWAT on steroids. Heavy magic, big guns, mil-spec
armor, Alpha-grade cyberware [Beta- even, if you're particularly
vicious. I know I am], bound Elementals, high leel Initiate Combat
mages, the whole nine yards.) Give the CS squad the same equipment and
enhancements that your players have, then give them a little bit more.
Even worse, if they've scragged any Knight Errant personnel, they might
get a visit from a FireWatch team. Those guys aren't even SWAT cops.
They're paramilitary troops. And have access to all the most wiz gear
that Ares can provide (for those of you that don't know, Knight Errant
FireWatch teams were sent into Chicago to destroy the main North AM
Hive, and then to clear the city out in '58. The fact that they were
given such a 'most-certain to end in your demise' job should speak
volumes of their training, capabilities, and resources)

Mgkelly
--
"Shoot it! If it's still moving, shoot it again! If it's STILL moving
after that, run like Hell! You don't want to know the answer!"
Message no. 99
From: Machine-gun Kelly <mgkelly@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 02:45:54 -0500
> Well it is usualy standard procedure to take an arrest
> so the perp can
> > > stand trial over just killing them outright (though the
> cops on the
> > > scene might be worked up) unless the lives of inocents
> are at risk.
> > And especially when news cameras are looking on -- you
> can't execute the
> > criminal on the spot if half the country is watching you.
> At least, not
> > without public outcry (like with the Rodney King
> beating).

Exactly. You do the ARREST on camera and show the 'violent, psychopathic
felon being apprehended' and then let the story drop and geek him later.
Or arranged a 'favor' with other inmates to whack him ("Hoi, Jimbo.
Wanna get your own private cell, other than another week in Solitary?
Let's make a deal....")Good PR for the corp doing the arresting and they
can get payback whenever they want once they have him in custody.

Mgkelly
--
"Shoot it! If it's still moving, shoot it again! If it's STILL moving
after that, run like Hell! You don't want to know the answer!"
Message no. 100
From: Sempai Arishu <radowshun@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:54:45 PDT
> Okay, how about this for an idea: Biofeedback execution. A few
thousand
>nuyen for the initial tech and you'll knock 'em dead (sorry, I jsut had
to
>say it) - no datajack or anything else required.
> On a similar vein, has anyone thought of the using Programmable ASIST
>Biofeedback in criminal rehabilitation? Anyone got any thoughts on how
>it'd be viewed? I mean, I'm assuming that with a PAB unit you can not
only
>alter memories but also alter motivations, urges, and the like (ala
>Psychotropic IC), but it seems perfectly humane to me to simply remove
>those psychotic motivations and replace them with good, healthy,
wholesome
>ones. Of course, there is the risk of the treatment wearing off, but
>that's what parole officers are for. A couple of sessions every six
month
>period and the person should be fine - a "normal, healthy citizen" in
all
>regards.
Praise be to the computer.
Sempai

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 101
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:03:56 +0200
According to The Bookworm, at 23:01 on 10 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Hmm well im sure they have someone working somewhere to improve it. I
> wonder what they have come up with in the last 10 years. Then again the
> best stuff is sure to be a "black" research program and the public wont
> get to see it for years if ever.

Or until there's another war. I don't think the desert camo was in regular
use until the Gulf War, for example (I'd seen photos of the parka, sure,
but never one actually showing it worn in the field until 1991).

> > And especially when news cameras are looking on -- you can't execute the
> > criminal on the spot if half the country is watching you. At least, not
> > without public outcry (like with the Rodney King beating).
>
> Forgot about that. And in SR Lone Star and the other law enforcement
> corperations will have to be especialy carefull about that since if public
> opinion gets to bad the city might end up hiring the compitition to handle
> law enforcement in the city come next contract renewal time.

In my view that would be the main concern for law enforcement corps. They
don't particularly care if officers violate the law of the land, just as
long as nobody gets to know about it. Once it's discovered (like a Lone
Star cop beating up a bystander in front of a trideo camera) they'll
probably take steps against the employee in question, and warn the rest
that this is not to happen anymore, with an unofficial "in public" added
at the end.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 102
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Lone star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:03:56 +0200
According to Zebulin Magby, at 16:24 on 10 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> My players commonly make sure that I realise that they can take down
> any cops that I send at them. These are people who plant Claymores

I take it you mean directional, command-detonated anti-personnel mines and
not the Scottish swords?

> around bar entrances to catch the cops when they show up to break up a
> fight...scared by Lone Star, no I don't think they are.

They should be scared of Lone Star. A few minutes after the PCs blow up
their Claymores, the street outside should look like those scenes from the
Blues Brothers just before they get to the IRS building in Chicago...

No way should the PCs be able to get out of that situation if they blew up
the cops with AP mines.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 103
From: Joachim Sauer <saua@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:56:10 +0200
Steve Eley wrote:
> [snip]
>
> My guess would be either poison (gas or injection) or a spell.

I wasn't following the thread so I don't know if it was mentioned before, but I
don't think they'll use spells, 'cause as far as I know they don't wan't anyone
to know who acutally did the execution (not even the one who did it).

>
> Have Fun,
> - Steve Eley
> sfeley@***.net

cu
Akira

--
When something went wrong, you might have a problem...
Visit my (german) Homepage at http://saua.home.ml.org
or if this doesn't work at http://privat.schlund.de/saua
Message no. 104
From: Jason Cummings <CellSales9@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:00:50 EDT
Great time for this subject to come up...

Several months ago one of my players decided to break into a detectives house
while he was sleeping, to steal his credstick (security codes, etc) The
detective woke up, and shot the player in the groin. Not only did the player
kill the detective, he NAILED more than 2 dozen donuts to him and dropped him
off in front of the local precenct. (Very demented player) So naturally, the
'Star was looking for him. Two runs ago, they finally caught him. And
because I also can be demented (my father was a cop) they glued several soy
burgers to him and left him in with the K9 dog. After more than an hour they
pulled him out (missing half an arm, and a foot). He was later killed while
trying to escape.
Message no. 105
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:51:19 -0600
VICTORY IS MINE!!!!

After months of trial, travail, and tribulation, I've found (and, the
gods of ebay willing, secured) my very own copy of LONE STAR. Don't
call off the search just yet, just in case the guy auctioning it off
flakes out, but I think I've finally got my sourcebook library
complete!! Now for the adventures....

<Patrick rises from his chair and does a Snoopy dance>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 106
From: Dallandra's Futures <bz701@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:47:24 GMT
Dallandra raises her eyebrows and reads...

> <Patrick rises from his chair and does a Snoopy dance>

Whassat den? Snoopy dances?

Dalla x x x
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Welcome to Dallandra's World. Now bend over!
__________________________________________________

All year round Email address: Mistress_Dalla@*******.com
Website http://come.to/Dallandra
Message no. 107
From: Matthew Diederich <matthew@****.BAKA.COM>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:45:23 -0500
Dammit Patrick, now I'm all jealous.


On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Patrick Goodman wrote:

> VICTORY IS MINE!!!!
>
> After months of trial, travail, and tribulation, I've found (and, the
> gods of ebay willing, secured) my very own copy of LONE STAR. Don't
> call off the search just yet, just in case the guy auctioning it off
> flakes out, but I think I've finally got my sourcebook library
> complete!! Now for the adventures....
>
> <Patrick rises from his chair and does a Snoopy dance>
>
> --
> (>) Texas 2-Step
> El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
>
Message no. 108
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:48:33 +1000
> VICTORY IS MINE!!!!
>
> After months of trial, travail, and tribulation, I've found (and, the
> gods of ebay willing, secured) my very own copy of LONE STAR. Don't
> call off the search just yet, just in case the guy auctioning it off
> flakes out, but I think I've finally got my sourcebook library
> complete!! Now for the adventures....
>
> <Patrick rises from his chair and does a Snoopy dance>
>
> --
> (>) Texas 2-Step
> El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
>
>
> Bastard.
>
> Okay, NOW if you come across any spares, get in touch with me. :)
>
> *Doc' drools enviously...*
>
> Doc'
>
> .sig Sauer
Message no. 109
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Lone Star
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:48:30 -0600
From: Ratinac, Rand (NSW)
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 5:49 PM

>> <Patrick rises from his chair and does a Snoopy dance>
>
> Bastard.

I'll have you know that my folks were, in fact, married at the time of
my conception and birth. I will, however, cop to "vicious reprobate."
<g>

> Okay, NOW if you come across any spares, get in touch with me. :)

Will do.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 110
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
Guys,

A friend has got my Lone Star book, so I need a hand
here.

Can someone tell me what the LS paranormal
investigations dept. is called? Full name and acronym, please.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
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Message no. 111
From: Fanguad fanguad@****.rit.edu
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:41:09 -0400
> A friend has got my Lone Star book, so I need a hand
> here.
>
> Can someone tell me what the LS paranormal
> investigations dept. is called? Full name and acronym, please.

> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka
> Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

Department of Paranormal Investigations (D.P.I.)
--Department of Magical Research is a subdivision thereof.

-- Fanguad (wonders where Doc's funny little messages went)

---------------------------------

"Tech Support, Greg speaking."
"QUICK! How do I change my wallpaper?"
"Well, it's pretty easy. I assume you want to change the
appearance of your desktop?"
"I need to get a picture off my background!"
"Oh, I see... Did someone accidentally set a porn picture
as their wallpaper, and their wife or mom is about
to show up?"
"PLEASE HURRY!"

-- Iliad, User Friendly
Message no. 112
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > Can someone tell me what the LS paranormal
investigations dept. is called? Full name and acronym,
please.

> Department of Paranormal Investigations (D.P.I.)
--Department of Magical Research is a subdivision
thereof.

Hmmm...cool. I was pretty close already. :)

> -- Fanguad (wonders where Doc's funny little
messages went)

Oh, they're around. I just don't always have the time
to let them out.

*Doc' looks around, then slowly opens a tightly-bound
box. Doc' leans closer to check inside and is poked in
the eye by a sentence. Doc' sobs as he turns to
Fanguad. "I hope you're happy now!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
Message no. 113
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:41:36 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 20:19 on 14 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> Can someone tell me what the LS paranormal
> investigations dept. is called? Full name and acronym, please.

Department of Paranormal Investigation, DPI or "dips."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 114
From: shadowrn@*********.com (lpvoid)
Subject: Lone Star
Date: Sat Feb 10 20:15:02 2001
I appologise for not changing the subject line the first time...
----- Original Message -----
From: lpvoid <lpvoid@********.rr.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Last 2 novels coming out


> Has any given thought to Lone Star's conception being from the old Judge
> Dredd comics? I mean come on, the uniforms are like a dead give away
there
> aren't they? From what I read in the Lone Star book it appears (to me
> anyway) that they acted like Dredd before the ownership changed.
>
> Anyone have observations to share?
>
> lpvoid
>
>
>

Further Reading

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Thwap!