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Message no. 1
From: Christopher Pratt valen@*******.com
Subject: Lone Star SWAT-FRT(was Re: SR Narrowing of focus)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:47:45 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Penta <cpenta@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: SR Narrowing of focus


> Rand Ratinac wrote:
>
> > > > Lone Star info wise is a good choice, but I hear it sold poorly.
> > Probably because only GMs bought it. Though it makes a good player book
> > as well if you want to run cops. But I don't think the average
> > Shadowrun player saw it that way.
> > >
> > > But Lone Star had that really cool "top ten resons not to be a
perp"
> >
> > And it was also, IMO, the best and most entertainly written SR
> > sourcebook with the possible exception of Awakenings.
>
> That it was...However, I have to wonder WHERE Nigel Findley got most of
> that stuff. ESPECIALLY for SWAT/FRT. Seemed odd LS would fund *2* units
> doing what seem to be the SAME things. I always go by the rule: This is
*LS
> ONLY*. KE and others are more sane. Also...on the numbers and roles: I
> gotta admit, some of the stuff for that seems odd: why WOULDN'T SWAT
> cross-train? I mean, they do IRL (so says a local SWAT officer. Joy for
> public-friendly medium-sized town cops.:>). Otherwise, it's great. Mostly.
> (I mean, we won't MENTION the Ruger Thunderbolt, arguably one of the most
> munchkin-attractive weaps: a BURST-FIRE Heavy Pistol???? Jesus.)
>
> John
>

Speaking of SWAT teams and such, how common are SWAT-FRT teams anyway, how
many would be operating in seattle??? I want to base this info on reality,
but I don't even know how many SWAT teams are in a regular city, like say
present day detroit, 1 or 2. The metro detroit area has MANY police
departments that all act largely indepndent of each other and surely the
smaller one can't afford their own SWAT teams. How does this work out?


"Windows 95: 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to
an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor,
written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition." -
Unknown
Christopher Pratt
valen@*******.com
Message no. 2
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Lone Star SWAT-FRT(was Re: SR Narrowing of focus)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:57:21 -0700
Christopher Pratt wrote:

> Speaking of SWAT teams and such, how common are SWAT-FRT teams anyway, how
> many would be operating in seattle??? I want to base this info on reality,
> but I don't even know how many SWAT teams are in a regular city, like say
> present day detroit, 1 or 2. The metro detroit area has MANY police
> departments that all act largely indepndent of each other and surely the
> smaller one can't afford their own SWAT teams. How does this work out?

I know around here there's a regional one. Asbury Park, AFAIK, has its own
one....But then there's also a regional SWAT team (under another name. Forget
what). Plus the County Sheriff's Office, then there's also the State Police. In
Seattle, I'd imagine 3-4 Lone Star SWAT teams. THEN, the Metroplex Guard would
have 1 or 2. Finally, with RA:S and the entry of the Regular Army into the
equation, think of 2 or 3 there.
In total? LOTS.:> Brings up a question though: Whatever DID happen to tear gas?
I don't see it anywhere. hmm.

John
Message no. 3
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Lone Star SWAT-FRT(was Re: SR Narrowing of focus)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:15:18 -0400
At 12.47 08-19-99 -0400, you wrote:
>Speaking of SWAT teams and such, how common are SWAT-FRT teams <snip>
>but I don't even know how many SWAT teams are in a regular city, like say
>present day detroit, 1 or 2. The metro detroit area has MANY police

Well, that all depends on what city you want to base it on.

LA County Sherriff has a tactical group, as does LAPD, and I imagine that
some of the other cities may as well. LAX has a tactical/special response
element, IIRC. Through in special purpose groups (anti-narcotics,
especially) that have raid functions, and you have LOT of capability in the
SWAT/ERT/HRT territory.
In NYC, the ESU takes a SWAT-type function, and they probably have enough
manpower to field an infantry platoon, but that is only for NYPD. Add in
NYC Corrections and the Transit Authority (which may or may not have
control of the tactical elements at Kennedy and La Guardia (sp), although
they may share those).
And then you have rural states with a part-time state team that does
everyone.

Back to Shadowrun:
In a city the size of Seattle, LS most likley has more than one teams (the
number based on the number of tactical deployments that can be made with a
12-man or larger group with full sniper, med, psych, C^4I, K-9 and EOD
support) that can be deployed.
If you have any BIG corps in a city, many of them may a special response
team on hand. Figure a SRT at any major airport. If a major security corp
(LS, KE, Eagle, etc) has enough contracts in an area, they may have one.
DocWagon only pulls out thier contractee, but they can be nasty if they
have to.
And the Feds can show up anyplace. If need be, the Guard can be
activated. If it is a state with a state-wide contract, I figure that
there will be a tactical element there. Ditto the county level. And don't
forget the capabilites of organized crime.


Now, this rasies an interesting possibility. A major hostage taking, with
several hi-mucky-mucks of a number of corps inside, a senator, along with
major celeb with a contract with a significant security corp (say 1M a year
with LS), and the son of the local Mafia Don.
Who's juristiction? The answer seems simple, but the reality gets more
interesting, with the media showing the various groups deploying aroudn the
scene and the group leaders argueeing about how to dothings. It seems that
the SS is saying that becuase of the Senator, they have authority, the
various corporate forces are saying that they are responsable for thier
people, the holderof the city contract is saying that they are fully
responsable, and some beat cops just nailed a bunch of Mafia soldiers
loaded for bear sneaking int o the sewers.
And your phone rings- it is your fixer. He has just been approached by
someone who has him on retainer, and they want him to send in a team to get
out a single hostage, and get them out RIGHT ******* NOW! It will be a
mill for the team that pulls it off.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 4
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Lone Star SWAT-FRT(was Re: SR Narrowing of focus)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:35:04 EDT
In a message dated 8/19/99 11:45:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, John writes:

> > That it was...However, I have to wonder WHERE Nigel Findley got most of
> > that stuff. ESPECIALLY for SWAT/FRT. Seemed odd LS would fund *2* units
> > doing what seem to be the SAME things. I always go by the rule: This is
> *LS
> > ONLY*. KE and others are more sane. Also...on the numbers and roles: I
> > gotta admit, some of the stuff for that seems odd: why WOULDN'T SWAT
> > cross-train? I mean, they do IRL (so says a local SWAT officer. Joy for
> > public-friendly medium-sized town cops.:>). Otherwise, it's great.
Mostly.
> > (I mean, we won't MENTION the Ruger Thunderbolt, arguably one of the most
> > munchkin-attractive weaps: a BURST-FIRE Heavy Pistol???? Jesus.)

Basicly, There could be a good reason. They DONT do exactly the same
things. FRT could be a FAST response team, for one. Get support to the Cop
on the beat as fast as possible, going for lighter weapons and armor in favor
of speed of response. SWAT, with its special weapons and Tactics would then
have heavier weapons and armor, and would be the ones called on when the cops
spot that tank (sorry, I mean the rigger's highly modified armored land
vehicle) parked at a warehouse. They show up with Mil grade armor, Anti Tank
rockets, etc....

I do, however, love the thought of turning LS's SWAT into TANK POLICE. Heh.
Heh. Heh.

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Thwap!