Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:10:34 -0400
Thanks, Mike.
That was a cold bucket of water you threw on me, and I appreciate
it. If someone starts taking pokes at me before I've had my morning cup
of tea, and done a little meditating to get myself prepped for the day,
I tend to come out fighting! I actually hadn't realized how bad it was,
until a few years ago when I was on board ship, I found out, several
people were afraid to approach me in the morning, because they thought
I'd tear their heads of f[Well, there was that time I leapt out of my
rack from a sound sleep, grabbed this guy by the collar, and hoisted him
off his feet against a wall, cause he woke me up too early. When
everyone, including the guy I was strangling started laughing, I
realised I'd gone to sleep in my starkers, and was standing there buck
nakkid in the breeze! <lowers reufully shaking head>
I apologise, TopCat. And thanks again, Mike.

Kohl
Message no. 2
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:11 -0500
At 10:10 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>TopCat ONCE again gets it wrong what I'm trying to say :-P

You said I was some sort of fascist GM when the truth was perhaps farthest
from that... and since you repeat it within here, I'm sure I got it right...

> The only reason you find what I have to hilarious is because you
>have NO idea what I'm trying to say!!! Setting the parameters means you
>telling the players what the powe level of the game is, what [if any]
>character types aren't really compatible with the whole storyline,

Which is all I've ever done... hello? You're reading these posts right? My
posts? Ya with me, Vic?

>UNLESS the Player and Gm TOGETHER are able to barnstorm an idea that
>that will allow the character to work in the game.

Any moron can slap some words together to explain why an Alamos 20K member
and a ORC member are really best buddies and run together all the time or
how a godlike powergamed shadowrunner would hang out with low-powered
detectives with SINs. As I said before, BS by any other name still stinks...

> I like it when my characters come from 'all points of the globe'. I
>LIKE diversity, as opposed to you ONE GM, ONE VISION type of gaming.
>AND, I'll have you know, that maybe in YOUR game characters from
>different backgrounds despise and hate each other, displaying an
>EXTREMELY Xenophobic attitude, the same does NOT hold for mine, and that
>4 times out of 5, the group finds for themselves, with a little help
>from me, reasons to work together. I can take you taking pot shots at
>me, BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO SLAMS AGAINST MY PLAYERS! That is the most
>unmidigated, galling statement I ve EVER heard, and I've heard quite a
>few!

Once again, diversity is not discouraged by me nor did I ever make the point
that it was. Why the hell are you so far off on this when nobody else is?
What is discouraged by me are situations where the characters realistically
would despise each other and/or not work with each other. One player is
contemplating changing his character because he doesn't know if he could see
his currrent one working with this group. As far as I'm concerned, that's
extremely well thought out. Sure, he could slap some BS story on there (as
could anyone with a slight degree of skill with their given language) as a
patch, but he'd rather go realistic. That impresses me. I could slap a
patch on there for him, but it'd still be a patch.

As for taking shots at your players, what the hell are you talking about?

> You don't need to instantly obliterate the PCs [well, maybe YOU
>do]. You don't need to go about prosecuting powergamers [but I guess
>like the Nazis, you need a scapegoat for your propoganda to feed on].

I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
to be *some* reason...

> NO ONE in my game is a POWERGAMER [yes, I DID have one, but unlike
>you, who probably would have given him a blindfold and shot him at dawn,
>we came to an agreement that he should find something elsewhere].

LOL! Damn near everyone is a powergamer. Most of those know what
powergaming is and actively keep themselves from doing it under most
circumstances. Being a powergamer is like being an alchoholic: once you
become one, you're one forever. It's just keeping yourself from powergaming
that keeps you on the "wagon". Simply knowing a game system can (and will
often) make one a powergamer (one who is capable of powergaming)...

> Just because you LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE mentality isn't able to
>comprehend all the possible plot threads that can link diverse
>characters together, and can only see a TopCat Uber Alles type world
>where all the player characters are the same, DON'T have the nerve to
>think we all have to or desire to be like that.

This is absolutely hilarious, Vic. You are so far off on this and look SO
bad. I weave plot threads like few others I've ever met or heard of. I
play from a realistic (which is to say, not comic-bookish) standpoint, so
it's easier for me that way. Man, are you off on this...

By all means, place your happy little BS patches all over your characters
and campaigns, I'm not playing in it so I won't have to smell the
accompanying stink...

> I may not run a PERFECT game like YOU do, but I try my best, and I
>think my players enjoy it a little as well. And I'd rather burn my
>books, than submit to a fasCist Gm like yourself!

Hey! You got the "c" in there this time. You spelled it right, but you
thought this entire post (and your others on this) through wrong. Way to
go, Vic. I didn't think anyone could make that big of an ass of themselves,
but you exceeded my wildest imaginations. Bravo, Vic! Bravo!

> WHEW! I feel better now. Despised letting that run itno a spout of
>namecalling, but you want a pissing match, I guarentee I've got a biger
>[Block delete 0.02 Mp Memory].

.02 Mp ain't big enough, little fella...

Now, you can keep ranting on and on despite having been shot down
repeatedly. I like to reply to posts like that, it makes me smile. You
could also wake up, realize that you've been wrong all the way through this,
and stop posting on this before you dig a deeper hole. Or you could go
civilized and maybe apologize, but I don't expect that. What happens now is
all up to you...

What's it going to be, Vic?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Long Range Game Design, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!