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Message no. 1
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Long range guns (was RE: Ah the large bore shotgun and more...)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:00:50 -0500
On Thursday, March 13, 1997 7:22 PM,
Gossamer[SMTP:kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US] wrote:

[snip]

> I do, however, have a firearms bitch to pitch to you all. Why
> is it that the ranges for these weapons are so unrealistically
> short? My biggest gripe is with rifles, especially sniper rifles.
> Having been a sniper, I *know* that any decent sniper weapon
> can hit a man with ease out to about 1300 meters, and I
> have personally fired a .50 calibre sniper rifle and hit a man
> sized target at 2000 meters which is not uncommon for a
> good shot.
>
> The main counter to my arguement of reality seems to
> have been things like: "Well, if realistic ranges were used,
> rifles would dominate the battlefield..." HELLO!!! Isn't
> that the way things are? and: "If realistic ranges were
> used, people would all try to carry rifles..." again, a good
> GM won't let people wander the streets with weapons
> like that unmolested...
>
> So I ask you, what was FASA thinking when they
> decided that they didn't care about this aspect of
> reality?

They were thinking that most firefights in SRII occur in a confined space,
with the participants firing from the hip, in poor lighting, while other
people are shooting at them. The range tables are intended to be used for
"streetfighting." When you took that 2km shot with the .50 cal, how long
did you aim for? Was it over open sights? Was the target shooting back?

The easiest way I have found to use the current rules to allow long-range
sniping, is to change the way a scope works. Currently, it steps the range
down 1 level for each rating point. I have changed that to the following:
When using a scope or on-board image magnification the range bands are
multiplied by (rating+1). So the range of a sniping rifle (a perennial
favorite) which is normall 0-40, 40-80, 80-200, 200-400, with a rating 3
scope, becomes 0-160, 160-320, 320-800, 800-1600. And your .50 cal shot
(using the HMG range table for grins) with a rating 3 scope, ranges at
0-160, 160-600, 500-1600, 1600-3200 (Which is, IIRC, beyond the horizon...)

So, yeah, a 2 klick shot is within the realm of possibility with a
Barret-type weapon. (Base TN of 6, allow two round of aiming for Firearms
4, and max 10 dice plus any reflex recorders (weapon customization and
enhanced articulation. YMMV.)

Works out nicely.

> BTW, the firearms rules are the main reason that I
> play mages who carry no guns...
>
> Anyway, thanks for listening
>
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Long range guns (was RE: Ah the large bore shotgun and more
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:56:40 +0100
Jonathan Hurley said on 19:00/14 Mar 97...

> > So I ask you, what was FASA thinking when they
> > decided that they didn't care about this aspect of
> > reality?
>
> They were thinking that most firefights in SRII occur in a confined space,
> with the participants firing from the hip, in poor lighting, while other
> people are shooting at them. The range tables are intended to be used for
> "streetfighting." When you took that 2km shot with the .50 cal, how long
> did you aim for? Was it over open sights? Was the target shooting back?

I still don't buy this explanation. If that's the case, then there should
be at least two range tables for weapons in SR: one for shooting the way
you describe it, and one for taking aimed shots from the shoulder.

Unfortunately, it's really hard to add a Phoenix Command-like aiming
system to Shadowrun...

> The easiest way I have found to use the current rules to allow long-range
> sniping, is to change the way a scope works. Currently, it steps the range
> down 1 level for each rating point. I have changed that to the following:
> When using a scope or on-board image magnification the range bands are
> multiplied by (rating+1).

That's what a lot of people do. I only allow it if the character spends a
Simple Action to steady the rifle (aim), though I don't give the -1 TN for
aiming to this action.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only he knew...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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