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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sat Jan 5 12:30:01 2002
Here's something about the Lord of the Rings ...

Before the massive fight scene near the river, Saruman (sic) told the
one Orc the origins of their race ...

(insert paraphrase here) ... "do you know the orcs come from the
elves? ..."

And continued on about the elves who were so tortured by the gods that
they became ugly and disfigured ...

Personally, the disfigurement is about their looking like
steroid-enhanced, muscle-bound tanks ... compared to the shapely and
slender elfin-looks ...

...

So where does this come in to play with the world of SR?

Well, in one of the books, it mentions that the elves (mainly the
Princes) were none to thrilled with Tolkien, it seems that the series
and other books about those fantasy books, hit a little too close to
home ...

Could it have had something to do with the Orcs???

Could it have something to do with the "Lands to the West" which
Galadriel referred to "allow herself to diminish" and then go
somewhere?

My take is that Tolkien's books were for the most part fantasy, but
going with something mentioned from Target: Awakened Lands, he must
have touched some part of the astral memory of the past ages and put
some of their truths in there ...

And so this means something else too then ...

What about the Rings of Power then that were given to the Elven Lords,
the Dwarven Kings, and to the Kings of Mortal Men doomed to die?

Could it be possible that the One Ring still exists, somewhere, and is
only waiting for the faintest hints that Sauron is coming?

Ouch ... I'm going to get my grubby evil-GM paws onto the LoTR and the
Hobbit and do some serious reading ... and perhaps something of it
will come into the games here from them ...
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sat Jan 5 13:05:01 2002
On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:27:46 -0500
"M.S. \"Herc\" Bobroff" <airwisp@******************.com> wrote:

> What about the Rings of Power then that were given to the Elven Lords,
> the Dwarven Kings, and to the Kings of Mortal Men doomed to die?
>
> Could it be possible that the One Ring still exists, somewhere, and is
> only waiting for the faintest hints that Sauron is coming?

The One Ring is destroyed in the Lord of the Rings book, and,
since it was linked to the other Rings of Power, they ceased functioning.
Galadriel tells this to Frodo in the book, which also shows she has one
of the Rings of Power given to the Elves (you can also see this in the
very beginning of the movie). So, if you want to be faithful to the
original work, you can't have the Rings of Power in the Sixth World.

An interesting idea is saying SR's mythical past is not the one
shown in Earthdawn, but the one in Lord of the Rings. They mesh well,
because one of the things Tolkien wanted was to come up with a mythical
past for Earth. Time is even measured in Ages by the elves and humans:
Lord of the Rings takes place at the end of the Third Age and beginning
of the Fourth, and they say all the time that magic is fading from the
world.

Now that the Sixth Age has come and magic is returning, someone
could try to take the mantle of Sauron and try to pull a similar stunt,
making new Rings of Power and another One Ring. Maybe some of the IEs
could be good candidates for this, since the "new past" makes them
survivors from the time of the Ring (or an even earlier time)!


--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damian Sharp)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sun Jan 6 00:20:00 2002
On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Bira wrote:

> The One Ring is destroyed in the Lord of the Rings book, and,
> since it was linked to the other Rings of Power, they ceased functioning.
> Galadriel tells this to Frodo in the book, which also shows she has one
> of the Rings of Power given to the Elves (you can also see this in the
> very beginning of the movie). So, if you want to be faithful to the
> original work, you can't have the Rings of Power in the Sixth World.

Well, that depends on how much you link to Earthdawn.

In ED, Legendary items are neigh impossible to _really_ destroy. Sure, you
can destroy the item, with a lot of effort, but so long as the idea of the
item exists, it will reform, somewhere. If the IEs did get upset with
Tolkien, that could even be why.

Perhaps the entire process of destroying the ring was also a process to
make people forget about it. The One Ring, as well as the linked rings,
were clearly quite Legendary. To truely destroy them, they ring would have
to be destroyed, as well as the legend. Perhaps, by writing Lord of the
Rings, Tolkien restored the legend of the rings. Having written them in
the Fifth World, not much would have come of it at the time.

However, it's quite possible that the One Ring, its Legend restored, has
reformed somewhere in the Sixth World. If you want to get truely manaical,
perhaps Tolkien knew what he was doing, and took steps to make sure he
would be there when it did, and is masterminding a plot to take over the
world.

Or, any number of other people could have realized the potential results,
and be out looking for it. Perhaps the IEs are trying to see that it's
destroyed again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Graduate |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"An explosion doesn't usually display the best parenting skills"
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sun Jan 6 11:25:00 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian Sharp" <zadoc@***.neu.edu>


> However, it's quite possible that the One Ring, its Legend restored,
has
> reformed somewhere in the Sixth World. If you want to get truely
manaical,
> perhaps Tolkien knew what he was doing, and took steps to make sure
he
> would be there when it did, and is masterminding a plot to take over
the
> world.
>
> Or, any number of other people could have realized the potential
results,
> and be out looking for it. Perhaps the IEs are trying to see that
it's
> destroyed again.

Or, what if Tolien had been an IE, at the end of his time, and he,
unlike the other IE's believed that everyone should be educated and
warned about a legend from the past ...

Okay, the One Ring has been destroyed, but as far as I know, the other
Rings of Power have not been destroyed ...

And who knows, perhaps Altantis is Earth's version of "Evermeet?"

And as I said, I still have to get the books out and start reading
them ... The Hobbit, LoTR, and the Silmarrilon (sic).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Michael "Herc" Bobroff
Hoosier Hacker House
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sun Jan 6 11:35:01 2002
On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:24:05 -0500 (EST)
Damian Sharp <zadoc@***.neu.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Bira wrote:
>
> > The One Ring is destroyed in the Lord of the Rings book, and,
> > since it was linked to the other Rings of Power, they ceased functioning.
> > Galadriel tells this to Frodo in the book, which also shows she has one
> > of the Rings of Power given to the Elves (you can also see this in the
> > very beginning of the movie). So, if you want to be faithful to the
> > original work, you can't have the Rings of Power in the Sixth World.
>
> Well, that depends on how much you link to Earthdawn.

What I proposed was not linking to Earthdawn at all, but
trashing the ED background and using Middle Earth instead. It's very
easy to do if you haven't put any blatant ED links in your campaign.

--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sun Jan 6 11:35:04 2002
On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 07:22:54 -0500
"M.S. \"Herc\" Bobroff" <airwisp@******************.com> wrote:

> Okay, the One Ring has been destroyed, but as far as I know, the other
> Rings of Power have not been destroyed ...

But they lost their power, since they were linked to the One
Ring.

> And who knows, perhaps Altantis is Earth's version of "Evermeet?"

"Evermeet", as far as I know, is a place in the D&D Forgotten
Realms, not in Middle Earth :).
--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Sun Jan 6 13:15:00 2002
According to M.S. \"Herc\" Bobroff, on Sun, 06 Jan 2002 the word on the street
was...

> Okay, the One Ring has been destroyed, but as far as I know, the other
> Rings of Power have not been destroyed ...

The three rings for the elves lost (most) of their power when the One Ring was
destroyed, the seven for the dwarves were lost or hidden, and the nine for the men
were completely in Sauron's service (each Ringwraith had one) so they would have
become worthless too...

> And as I said, I still have to get the books out and start reading
> them ... The Hobbit, LoTR, and the Silmarrilon (sic).

Better read them in that order, then at least if you give up on the last one you've
still read the others *g*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
At the Olympics during the Bronze Age, all winners came third.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Mon Jan 7 09:10:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>


According to M.S. \"Herc\" Bobroff, on Sun, 06 Jan 2002 the word on
the street was...

> Okay, the One Ring has been destroyed, but as far as I know, the
other
> Rings of Power have not been destroyed ...

The three rings for the elves lost (most) of their power when the One
Ring was
destroyed, the seven for the dwarves were lost or hidden, and the nine
for the men
were completely in Sauron's service (each Ringwraith had one) so they
would have
become worthless too...

(Mike) ... and after having been throughly chastised by K, the Rings
of Power given to Mortal Men have also been destroyed (thanks to
Aerwyn ... do you guys think that was an excellent variation on Storm
Strike? I did).

> And as I said, I still have to get the books out and start reading
> them ... The Hobbit, LoTR, and the Silmarrilon (sic).

Better read them in that order, then at least if you give up on the
last one you've
still read the others *g*

(Mike) Still, this leaves the 3 Rings of Power to the Elf Lords and
the other 7 Rings to the Dwarven Lords ... ya know, that's 10 Rings
...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Michael "Herc" Bobroff
Hoosier Hacker House
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gerard)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Mon Jan 7 11:35:00 2002
From: "M.S. "Herc" Bobroff"
>
> (Mike) Still, this leaves the 3 Rings of Power to the Elf Lords and
> the other 7 Rings to the Dwarven Lords ... ya know, that's 10 Rings
> ...


The three elven rings passed away into the West, so I'd pretty much
count them out as well. From memory, a couple of the dwarven rings got eaten
by dragons while being worn and can be counted out, as dragonfire was
another way of destroying rings. Only in the belly of the Great Wyrms etc
etc ;) One got lost in Moria back in Durin's days...IIRC Durin might even
have had it. I vaguely remember something about Balin going looking for it
as one of the reasons he went off to reinhabit Moria...

It's been too long since my keen tolkien days, take it all with a few grains
of salt ;)

-Tamino
"All Too Easy!"
sjwinzar@*********.com.au
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Kesh)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Mon Jan 7 22:10:01 2002
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:40:59 +1000, Gerard wrote:

> The three elven rings passed away into the West, so I'd pretty much
>count them out as well.

Actually, that depends on how you interperet 'west'. If you see it as a
metaphysical metaphor, then yea they're gone. If you see Middle Earth as
set somewhere in Europe though, maybe the elven rings are somewhere in
the New World... and in the hands of Immortal Elves.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Tue Jan 8 05:50:04 2002
According to M.S. \"Herc\" Bobroff, on Mon, 07 Jan 2002 the word on the street
was...

> Still, this leaves the 3 Rings of Power to the Elf Lords and
> the other 7 Rings to the Dwarven Lords ... ya know, that's 10 Rings
> ...

One for each finger ;) IIRC some of those seven were destroyed, but if you want to
use this for an SR adventure then I think you can basically make of it whatever you
want -- if you want them all to still be powerful, I don't see why you couldn't.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
At the Olympics during the Bronze Age, all winners came third.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: (LoTR) Tolkien and the Elves ...
Date: Tue Jan 8 13:10:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Kesh whispered:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:40:59 +1000, Gerard wrote:
>
> > The three elven rings passed away into the West, so I'd pretty much
> >count them out as well.
>
> Actually, that depends on how you interperet 'west'. If you see it as a
> metaphysical metaphor, then yea they're gone. If you see Middle Earth as
> set somewhere in Europe though, maybe the elven rings are somewhere in
> the New World... and in the hands of Immortal Elves.
>

Nope, not the New World. Valinor (Land of the Gods, where the elves went,
for all of you who haven't read the Silmarillion or LotR :) was in the
"west" when earth was still flat (the ship of Arda, or Ea, cannot remeber
right now). After the Evil (TM) had once again struck Arda and estranged the
Númenorians from the Valar, the Valar decided that it was better for them
and for Earth to leave it alone, and made the world a globe, somwhere in the
end of the Akallabêth. The elves were permitted to sail the Straight Road
and so come upon Valinor.

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien

Further Reading

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