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Message no. 1
From: Phil Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:33:39 +0100
Marc A Renouf wrote:

> Aaaaaarrrgh. I think you missed the point. Even if you don't
> *need* to use astral perception, you still can't cast spells with a hood
> on anyway, because you can't *see* your target. No LOS, no spell (unless
> it's touch required). You don't need infravision to use a heat seeking
> missile, but try to use one while blindfolded sometime. That's the
> equivalent of what's happening here. The hood blocks both normal and
> astral sight, making spellcasting damn near impossible.

Sorry guess I should reread what I write before posting, of course it
blocks LOS, I was too eager to argue my point about not needing
astral perception to cast spells, so no LOS spells, ok thats most
but I can still - heal, go invisible, cast death touch, and incr
strength +4, and several more useful spells, I guess I need to write
a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)

Now before I make another blunder - what stops said mage who is bound,
gagged and blind with a mage mask from astrally projecting? when he
will then be able to see, and get help. I still believe in keeping them
unconcious and/or using drugs, how about a blind spell that removes normal
and astral vision (should stop projecting if they don't know where they
are.)

Area of effect spells effect everyone in the area who can be seen by the
caster, if the caster is in the area is he affected - ie does he see
himself? (I think not) but how about if one of the targets was carrying
a mirror (or very shiny - nice reflective cyberware) he would then see his
aura and get hit by his area spell (if he was in the area) could this
dissuade the mana-ball area effect weapon from taking out room fulls of
people? (I think this is combat spells not DMs)



Phil
Message no. 2
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:55:25 GMT
Phil Hayward writes

> Marc A Renouf wrote:
>
> > Aaaaaarrrgh. I think you missed the point. Even if you don't
> > *need* to use astral perception, you still can't cast spells with a hood
> > on anyway, because you can't *see* your target. No LOS, no spell (unless
> > it's touch required). You don't need infravision to use a heat seeking
> > missile, but try to use one while blindfolded sometime. That's the
> > equivalent of what's happening here. The hood blocks both normal and
> > astral sight, making spellcasting damn near impossible.
>
> Sorry guess I should reread what I write before posting, of course it
> blocks LOS, I was too eager to argue my point about not needing
> astral perception to cast spells, so no LOS spells, ok thats most
> but I can still - heal, go invisible, cast death touch, and incr
> strength +4, and several more useful spells,
correct. though you are still unlijely to get far against guards you
cannot see who have guns, stun battons etc and can see you.

> I guess I need to write
> a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)
>
AGH!!! - don't tell the players that!, would probably work as you are
touching the thing. If you see the spell design system (GR2) you will
find that touch is better drain and therefore seems to negate the
need to see the target, note the comment a magician is always
considered to be touching him/herself.

> Now before I make another blunder - what stops said mage who is bound,
> gagged and blind with a mage mask from astrally projecting? when he
> will then be able to see, and get help.
Absolutely nothing.
See the grand FAB debate from a few weeks back for more solutions to
this most annoying complication.

> I still believe in keeping them
> unconcious and/or using drugs, how about a blind spell that removes normal
> and astral vision (should stop projecting if they don't know where they
> are.)
>
might work?

> Area of effect spells effect everyone in the area who can be seen by the
> caster, if the caster is in the area is he affected - ie does he see
> himself? (I think not)
hes touching himself, which negates the need to see so if hes in the
area of effect he gets himself. FASA actually say in the grimoire
that you can get yourself with your own area affect spells though
while answering another problem (according to the rules you may not
provide defense against your own spells, to yourself or anyone else
in the way)

> but how about if one of the targets was carrying
> a mirror (or very shiny - nice reflective cyberware) he would then see his
> aura and get hit by his area spell (if he was in the area) could this
> dissuade the mana-ball area effect weapon from taking out room fulls of
> people? (I think this is combat spells not DMs)
>
damaging manipulations get everything in range regarless of if you
can see it, you only need see (or touch) the centre of effect and
BOOM!!

> Phil
>
Mark
Message no. 3
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 13:23:59 +0100
On Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Phil Hayward wrote:

> astral perception to cast spells, so no LOS spells, ok thats most
> but I can still - heal, go invisible, cast death touch, and incr
> strength +4, and several more useful spells, I guess I need to write
> a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)
hey, you already *have* LOS to the hood :) But then you know its there
and so you're likely not be fooled by your own spell :(


The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 4
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 15:15:19 GMT
The Digital Mage writes

> On Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Phil Hayward wrote:
>
> > I guess I need to write
> > a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)
> hey, you already *have* LOS to the hood :) But then you know its there
> and so you're likely not be fooled by your own spell :(
>
>
But shadowrun spells are resisted not disbelieved. Anyway you could
make the thing physical, it would need to be a manipulation spell
after all in which case it changes the physical state of the hood and
you would then be tring to con yourself believing it to be solid when
in reality it was not anymore, ok you still have to get +2's for
sustaining the spell and cope with probable Hand-Hand combat vs guys
with stun battons whils having your hands cuffed (and with a mage i
bet thats behind you as uncomfortably as they could manage) but you
stand a chance, well till you remember they tend to take armour off
prisoners.

The solution i used when faced with problems was, i need medical
attention anyway, break docwagon band, guess what High treat response
team shows up, removes problem to treating patient and applies first
aid, now these folks let their platnium contract customers go free
[to ensure more business, corpses are a bit beyond needing expensive
hospital treatment]. Handy but be careful you do not abuse Docwagon
trying this sort of thing they can get very annoyed if you use thier
people to fight your battles for you, esp if you get them hurt in the
process.

> The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
>
Mark
Message no. 5
From: Andy Butcher <Fiend@*********.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:17:01 +0100
Phil Hayward wrote:

>Sorry guess I should reread what I write before posting, of course it
>blocks LOS, I was too eager to argue my point about not needing
>astral perception to cast spells, so no LOS spells, ok thats most
>but I can still - heal, go invisible, cast death touch, and incr
>strength +4, and several more useful spells, I guess I need to write
>a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)

There's nothing to stop you casting the spells apart from the hideously high
volume white noise being pumped into your ears. I've always considered spell
casting to require some serious concentration, and that's hard to come by
when you can't even think. Try doing long division in your head whilst
standing in front of a speaker at a thrash metal concert - not impossible,
but very, very hard ;)

>Now before I make another blunder - what stops said mage who is bound,
>gagged and blind with a mage mask from astrally projecting? when he
>will then be able to see, and get help. I still believe in keeping them
>unconcious and/or using drugs, how about a blind spell that removes normal
>and astral vision (should stop projecting if they don't know where they
>are.)

If spell casting requires concentration, then going astral certainly does -
it's a complex action, remember, which implies that it's not something you
can just 'slip into' without thought. Once again, it's very hard to do this
kind of thing when you're disorientated. Not impossible, just very, very hard ;)

>Area of effect spells effect everyone in the area who can be seen by the
>caster, if the caster is in the area is he affected - ie does he see
>himself? (I think not) but how about if one of the targets was carrying
>a mirror (or very shiny - nice reflective cyberware) he would then see his
>aura and get hit by his area spell (if he was in the area) could this
>dissuade the mana-ball area effect weapon from taking out room fulls of
>people? (I think this is combat spells not DMs)

This is a tricky one, but for game balance reasons I've always ruled that if
the magician is in the area, he get's whacked as well - otherwise why bother
with the 'reducing the area of effect' rules?

Andy Butcher | "Whether you think you will succeed
PC Gamer Magazine | or not, you are right."
Fiend@*********.co.uk | Henry Ford
Message no. 6
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: mage hoods
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 13:20:38 -0400
On Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Phil Hayward wrote:

> I guess I need to write a touch based turn mage hood invisible spell :)

Been there, seen it tried. The mage was all set to foil the cops
and begin tossing spells with reckless abandon...until the 90dB of white
noise upped his target number into the ridiculous range. So he tried
again at a +2 target number...and again, and again, until he finally gave
up and was escorted peacefully to jail.

> Now before I make another blunder - what stops said mage who is bound,
> gagged and blind with a mage mask from astrally projecting?

A "Chia Collar" (TM)

Marc

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