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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 10:33:45 +0200
>Then what good is a mage hood? Actually, I always did wonder that.

Don't know, I've never had the opportunity to use it on my players :) The
only time our shaman was nearly "arrested" (by Saeder-Krupp security) she
made herself invisible and killed the sec mage before he could give away her
location...
Actually, the mage hood does lots of things that the SR game system says is
unnecessary: the gag tube for instance. Nobody needs to speak to cast magic,
unless they've got a speaking geas; the hood won't block your astral
perception I guess, because which organs do you use to astrally perceive?
The white noise sounds good though :) it would be a hell of an effort to
concentrate I think...
Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
the trouble with victims is that they have relatives
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P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 2
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 21:59:33 +1000
> >Then what good is a mage hood? Actually, I always did wonder that.

Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

> Actually, the mage hood does lots of things that the SR game system says is
> unnecessary: the gag tube for instance. Nobody needs to speak to cast magic,
> unless they've got a speaking geas;

Well, it'd be irritating, distracting, humiliating and (rarely)
useful for those geased people. Isn't that enough?

> the hood won't block your astral
> perception I guess, because which organs do you use to astrally perceive?

I think this argument is a furphy. Can you see through walls?
Nope. You can't see through physical objects with astral perception.

Some people claim that a mage can astrally perceive with their eyes
shut; this sounds ludicrous to me, and leads to contradictions like
the above. What _is_ the justification for it, anyway?

Blind mages can astrally perceive. Maybe the astral sight is a
magical field effect localised to the place the optic nerve emerges,
or something.

> Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
> cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...

Have I ever commented on just how open to abuse the What You Think Is
What You Get model is? It seems so obvious an invitation to munchkinism.

`Gee, my mad mage believes he's got 6 people in his head - so he can
cast 6 spells per action, cause he thinks he can.'

Sheesh!

luke@*******.steam
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 20:20:37 GMT
Gurth writes

> >Then what good is a mage hood? Actually, I always did wonder that.
>
> Actually, the mage hood does lots of things that the SR game system says is
> unnecessary: the gag tube for instance. Nobody needs to speak to cast magic,
> unless they've got a speaking geas;
have a look at the noticing spell casting, FASA don't say that you
have to speek but from the noticing rules casting spells that have
force near your magic attribute is probably helped by speaking and
waving your arms about a bit. Ok its not strictly neccessary but i
generally slap on a +2 for difficult conditions, eg trying to cast
with your hands bound behind you as it is such an unusual position it
would at least be distracting. But its gm discretion time here.

> the hood won't block your astral
> perception I guess, because which organs do you use to astrally perceive?
eyes i assume so yes having a hood over your head would block
perception.

> The white noise sounds good though :) it would be a hell of an effort to
> concentrate I think...
Very true, worth +2 or more (depending on how cruel you are feeling /
chance to help the stiry, if the Pc needs to escape easy on the
penalties, if you know theres a better chance be nasty, ok gm
fiddling but)


> Gurth@******.nl

Mark
Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:01:32 -0400
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >Then what good is a mage hood? Actually, I always did wonder that.

The gag tube will indeed keep you from speaking, but as Gurth
said, this is only effective if you have a speaking geas. It does keep
you from calling for help, though :)
Also, as the hood material is opaque, you cannot "see" through it
physically or astrally (in my game astral sight stem from the head, but
not necessarily the eyes).
And finally, up to 90 dB of white noise will put a serious cramp
in your day. I would call this a major target # penalty, on the order of +6.

> Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
> cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...

Will you guys can it with the WYTIWYG thing. It's such a lame
kludge, and is rapidly becoming the catch-all "well, it's magic and we
don't want to think about how it works, so WYTIWYG."

Marc
Message no. 5
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:43:25 +0200
> >Then what good is a mage hood? Actually, I always did wonder that.
>
> Don't know, I've never had the opportunity to use it on my players :) The
> only time our shaman was nearly "arrested" (by Saeder-Krupp security) she
> made herself invisible and killed the sec mage before he could give away her
> location...
> Actually, the mage hood does lots of things that the SR game system says is
> unnecessary: the gag tube for instance. Nobody needs to speak to cast magic,
> unless they've got a speaking geas; the hood won't block your astral
> perception I guess, because which organs do you use to astrally perceive?
> The white noise sounds good though :) it would be a hell of an effort to
> concentrate I think...

Well the Hood is a piece of hardware the Star uses, its nothing more
and nothing less. No one said that its the 100% secure and 100% efficient
way to stop mages.

> Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
> cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...

That is definitely a factor.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:26:58 +0200
> > Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
> > cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...
>
> Have I ever commented on just how open to abuse the What You Think Is
> What You Get model is? It seems so obvious an invitation to munchkinism.

Awww I am to tired to type everything up again, so tell ou what :)
read my reply to DigMage's post about the perfect magic system of SR :)

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mage Hood (was: Re: Spell Grounding)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:05:21 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes

> > > Maybe it boils down to WYTIWYG... think that the hood won't allow you to
> > > cast spells, and hey presto, and you can't cast spells...
> >
> > Have I ever commented on just how open to abuse the What You Think Is
> > What You Get model is? It seems so obvious an invitation to munchkinism.
>
> Awww I am to tired to type everything up again, so tell ou what :)
> read my reply to DigMage's post about the perfect magic system of SR :)
>
WYTIWYG has some basis in the fact of the system as long as you note
that it really needs reading as 'what of the power that is available
you think you can get is what you get'. See the notes in 'Master cast
of shadows', in HB, under Harlequin where is says that his different
world view proves that how magic works for you is determined by your
world view.
WYTIWYG has its uses Jani, just some folks seem to take this sort of
thing a munchkins excuse.
In the real world you cannot pursuade yourself at a real basic level
that something is true that you know to be untrue (well not easily
while sane anyway) unlike it cartoons where you don't fall until you
remember gravity exists. So trying to say 'i think i can do _____'
and saying you carry on as if you believe it won't cut if at a
subconcious level you still know you cannot do _____.

Mark.

- read the other post of Jani's for all all the chatter as its so
long we really only need 1 copy (though all things considered it
probably needs all the old stuff left in or it would be a real pain
to read)

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