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Message no. 1
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Mages
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 11:03:35 -0400
To those of you out there who think mages are exceedingly powerful, I
feel the need to simultaneously agree and disagree. Shadowrun magic is not
powerful, its strength lies in the fact that mundanes don't expect it. I
co-GM a group with 2-4 mages; I, when not GM'ing, play a Tir Na Nog
Follower-Bard. I was surprised when people first began talking about the
Shapechange spell and how its Drain was laughable, later, we had
discussions about magical LAW's, orichalcum spurs and Hellblasts as if you
guys are used to this stuff. Well I suppose I should expect incoming soon
but I'd love to see your characters. I learned quickly that in Shadowrun,
a wound causes a snowball effect so they are to be avoided at all costs.
I really had to think twice about taking Stun Missile for my Bard because
the Moderate Drain would more often than not leave me with a Light stun. A
stun which would begin the penalty snowball. As far as Shapechange is
concerned, Serious stun is NOT laughable. You would need a rhino's stats
to counteract the drain penalties and the +2 penalty for sustaining the
spell. My group does not have stats over racial maximums because if a 6 in
Strength represents Arnold Schwarzeneggar or a 6 in Intelligence
represents Stephen Hawking, then an elf with an 8 in Charisma is more
Charismatic than Hitler and a Troll on average is more powerful than three
or four bodybuilders combined!! No offense but I think that I'm beginning
to see some of the D&D syndrome taking effect here (eg. everyone has an
18/00 Str so my guy should have a 22).
Forget Hellblast! Some of you guys cast it in the Astral plane! Call
me a rules lawyer but casting a Deadly drain spell while Astral means that
you're either desperate, dead, or your Willpower is too high (sorry, but I
can't think of a real-life person with a 6 Will but in Marvel Comics a 6
would be comparable with Charles Xavier)
Sorry to get all excited but I think some of you have so many rules
modifications because you forgot so many rules.
Til Next Time,
Christopher Higgins.
Message no. 2
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 10:46:39 +1000
Christopher Higgins wrote:

>I learned quickly that in Shadowrun,
>a wound causes a snowball effect so they are to be avoided at all costs.

Agreed.

>I really had to think twice about taking Stun Missile for my Bard because
>the Moderate Drain would more often than not leave me with a Light stun.

???
Let's see; power focus 2; Sorcery 8 ==> Magic Pool 10. Willpower 6.
16 dice should be enough to reduce a 5D drain to nothing;
18 dice should do so for a 6D. I don't think that's a
munchkin-level mage.

> My group does not have stats over racial maximums

Good. Nor does ours, for the most part. Though there are some
with cyberware and some with increased attribute locked in.

> Sorry to get all excited but I think some of you have so many rules
>modifications because you forgot so many rules.

I don't think so...

luke
Message no. 3
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
Subject: Mages...
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:49:53 +0100 (MET)
Just a quote:

"Mages are Shamans, too... their totem is geometry!"
-- Canis (Wolf Shaman who doesn't speak&understand
latin and is now quite embarresed about
his handle)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | |
+---------------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
Message no. 4
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Mages
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:35 +0000
Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
take him long.. and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his
totem for a number of things... No I am not trying to say which is
better.. I am just trying to see why I would want to be a mage and
not a shaman...elementals are more powerful yes.. but they take
forever to conjure...

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
Message no. 5
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:19:35 -0500
At 11:43 PM 2/4/97 +0000, Shane Courtrille babbled:
>Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
>stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
>take him long.. and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his
>totem for a number of things... No I am not trying to say which is
>better.. I am just trying to see why I would want to be a mage and
>not a shaman...elementals are more powerful yes.. but they take
>forever to conjure...
>
This is why there are such a thing as "stored" services... You can just
keep building up the services. Also, this can be done between game
sessions, and during any down time, as long as you have the materials to do
it. A mage takes a bit of preperation to play, but that should part of the
character anyways.

I'm also very careful careful with my elementals. They have a standing
order that if they're evr seriously injured or outclassed, to run. I've
invested a lot of time and effort into my two elementals, Cindy (Fire) and
Sarah (Air), and my characters actually grown rather fond of them.

Sure, intant spirits ala Shamans are nice, but being able to call up 2
Force 6 elementals in a split second is even nicer...

The only real difference between a Shaman and a Mage is role playing.
Everything else really does (IMO) balance out...

Bull (Speaking as the mage Chaos)
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

We're there! And it's great!!!!
Message no. 6
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:20:13 EST
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:35 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
>stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
>take him long.. and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his
>totem for a number of things... No I am not trying to say which is
>better.. I am just trying to see why I would want to be a mage and
>not a shaman...elementals are more powerful yes.. but they take
>forever to conjure...
>
>Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
>HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
>
Just go back and read the elemental debate (aka "War of the Brett's")...
The strength of a mage's elementals is that s/he can prepare ahead of
time (in relative safety) and then rely on them when needed, w/o the
gamble of summoning something on the spot.

<very simple example>
I can have one of my elementals chase you all across town until it gets
you, while the only thing I need to do to evade your spirit is step off
the street and into a store...at which point you need to summon another
one to get me.
</very simple example>

It's also a matter of taste... I personally like both, and my choice
depends entirely on the mood I'm in and what the concept is of the
character I want to make/play.

~Tim
Message no. 7
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:36:51 +0000
|
|Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
|stick...

Errrrr

|sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
|take him long..

But a mage can have as many elementals on call as his intelligence allows,
while the shaman can only ever have one spirit at a time.....

|and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his
|totem for a number of things...

And a mage can use the force of his elementals to augment spells, sustain
spells for him and other things....

|No I am not trying to say which is
|better..

I thing they're pretty well balanced....

|I am just trying to see why I would want to be a mage and
|not a shaman...elementals are more powerful yes.. but they take
|forever to conjure...

But once conjured (which you do out of game time) they're there to be called
when you want them....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:50:31 +0000
|But a mage can have as many elementals on call as his intelligence allows,

ooops.... Charisma! I meant Charisma.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:04:08 +0000
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Shane Courtrille wrote:

> Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
> stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
> take him long.. and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his

Mages can have a number of elementals bound at one time equal to their
charisma, whilst shamans can only have one spirit active in any one
domain.

Also because mages conjure elementals prior to use they can recover from
drain and get an elemental in combat without falling over.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 10
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:10:15 EST
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:35 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
>stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't
>take him long.. and a shaman can also get extra dice based on his
>totem for a number of things... No I am not trying to say which is
>better.. I am just trying to see why I would want to be a mage and
>not a shaman...elementals are more powerful yes.. but they take
>forever to conjure...
>
>Shane Courtrille

Well, here's how I see it: While a shaman receives totem bonus dice, he
also receives disadvantages from his totem, so it balances out there, and
he will act according to his totem. A mage, OTOH, is not restricted by a
totem, he can act as he damn well pleases, and answers only to himself or
whatever god he believes in. A shaman can summon his spirits on the fly,
but he can't summon them in advance, and he doesn't have time to heal up
the drain if he doesn't stage all of it away. A mage must summon his
spirits in advance, but he isn't limited by where they can go, and he
usually has time to sleep off the drain. Nature spirits aren't directly
opposed by other spirits, Elementals can be destroyed by contact with
opposing elementals (an exaggeration, but pretty close to the truth, I
think). A shaman isn't required to have a library (they're expensive,
btw), nor is he required to set up a new medicine lodge every time he
wants to perform some ritual, plus the medicine lodge is a constant
astral barrier. A hermetic, OTOH, must draw up a new hermetic circle
every time he wishes to conduct a different ritual, in order to raise his
sorcery skill he's got to have a hermetic library (according to the
rules), in order to perform conjuring, he must have a hermetic library,
in order to perform ritual sorcery, enchanting, or spell design, the mage
must have the appropriate libraries.

That's all I can think of right now...

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 11
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:20:09 -0500
Shane Courtrille enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>Am I missing something or do mages end up on the short end of the
>stick... sure a shamans spirit only lasts so long.. but it dosen't

Brother, you just missed a BIG one on this...I'll give a quick answer:

It depends on style....Depending on your personal personality, you find one
"better" than the other...shamans can summon based on the moment, but have
to wait for the moment, Mages can summon, and can keep FOREVER (potentially)
until needed.

I suggest you and any respondents take this to private mail, as it will add
little that hasn't been said on this group countless times...

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 12
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:38:38 -0500
> Just go back and read the elemental debate (aka "War of the Brett's")...

Cool! My name in glowing phosphorus.... :-D

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 13
From: Brett Barksdale <brett@***.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:48:30 -0800
>> Just go back and read the elemental debate (aka "War of the
Brett's")...

>Cool! My name in glowing phosphorus.... :-D

Hey! That's not your name. That's MY name...!
;-D

- youngin'
Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:32:32 -0500
Brett Barksdale enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>>> Just go back and read the elemental debate (aka "War of the
Brett's")...
>>Cool! My name in glowing phosphorus.... :-D
>Hey! That's not your name. That's MY name...!
_MY_ Name is better! :D
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 15
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:45:45 +0100
Elementals do cost money.
Elementals are not by themselves more powerful, that depends on how you
use them, or what you need them for, IMHO.
Elementals do take a lot of time to conjure.

I agree so far.

Spirits can't cross domain borders.
Spirits are good at some things, and can't do others as well (depends
on their domain or "taste" of course).

Agreeing this far, too.

Shamans can't do anything as well as anything else.
Shamans can only have _one_ spirit at a time at hand.
Differences between elemntals and spirits see above.
Mages can spell anything without difficulties, everywhere. That IMHO is
a big advantage. And tey can store their elementals until they need
them, thus separating drain and usage of the spirits. That surely may
be an advantage.
All things considered, I would (but never played any magical PC) prefer
shamans, just like you. But that would be more from a "personal"
understanding, not from min-maxing or anything like m*nchk*ng*ng (sp?).

But a mage would be the more interesting character for roleplaying.
With her/his wanting to understand, analyzing, explaining, in short
being very academical, s/he could screw up anything, but s/he would not
fit in any SR team I know just like a wolf shaman, for example. (Now,
this is a result of min-maxing or m*?, isn't it?)


--
Arno
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Message no. 16
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 03:18:11 -0500
>But a mage would be the more interesting character for roleplaying.
>With her/his wanting to understand, analyzing, explaining, in short
>being very academical, s/he could screw up anything, but s/he would not
>fit in any SR team I know just like a wolf shaman, for example. (Now,
>this is a result of min-maxing or m*?, isn't it?)

Why more interesting for roleplaying? Wouldn't a character who saw all of
life as an expression of spirits be an interesting role player? And be
careful not to stereotype too much.

Most of the shaman side of magic is TOTALLY roleplayed....that they "ask"
spirits as opposed to order....that they see life as alive....that they
follow a totem without necessarily understanding....

The numbers don't reflect these traits. Only roleplaying does. And I find
them very interesting to play indeed. If anything, they tend to be more
varied and alive than the mages I've played with, though I'm sure that's
merely the players I've been with.

Why do you say a Wolf Shaman fits with a team better than a Mage? Just
because Wolf likes to fight? Too one-dimensional. Wolf is deeper than
that. What happens when they are in a fight, and the team starts losing, so
Wolf charges, drawing fire, because he has to save the pack, and could never
retreat? What about when Wolf does any of a hundred things OUTSIDE of
combat, because that's what Wolf wants, that's what Wolf feels is right.
Roleplaying situations abound.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 17
From: John Chesser <shaggy68@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:04:41 -0600
All Mages are created equal. Period.

But my mage could kick a shamans butt anytime! : )

(Here we go again)
Message no. 18
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:09:29 -0800
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, John Chesser wrote:

> All Mages are created equal. Period.

Well, OK, but what about the shamans....

>
> But my mage could kick a shamans butt anytime! : )

Well, yeah. So could I, but I don't think I could out run the mana-bolt.

>
> (Here we go again)
>

~Tim (_My_ mage never went around kicing people...)
:)
Message no. 19
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 03:45:57 +0100
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 03:18:11 -0500, Brett Borger wrote:

>>But a mage would be the more interesting character for roleplaying.
>>With her/his wanting to understand, analyzing, explaining, in short
>>being very academical, s/he could screw up anything, but s/he would not
>>fit in any SR team I know just like a wolf shaman, for example. (Now,
>>this is a result of min-maxing or m*?, isn't it?)
>
>Why more interesting for roleplaying? Wouldn't a character who saw all of
>life as an expression of spirits be an interesting role player? And be
>careful not to stereotype too much.

Oh no, I just wrote my personal opinion. I think I wrote this
explicitly, too.

>
>Most of the shaman side of magic is TOTALLY roleplayed....that they "ask"
>spirits as opposed to order....that they see life as alive....that they
>follow a totem without necessarily understanding....
>
>The numbers don't reflect these traits. Only roleplaying does. And I find
^^^^^^^^^^^
Of course, that's what it's all about. But that is also true for
hermetics. Only with hermetics I would role-play a big interest in
understanding things, and not believing them, and so on.

>them very interesting to play indeed. If anything, they tend to be more
>varied and alive than the mages I've played with, though I'm sure that's
>merely the players I've been with.
>
>Why do you say a Wolf Shaman fits with a team better than a Mage?

Not only for Wolf's fighting abilities, but these too.
In fact, I tried to point out the differences between shamans and
hermetics. These differences are surely in part my personal
interpretation, but I think that the big academical interest that
hermetics have makes it more likely the do research in magic than
the hermetic being a 'runner. So I would have a lot of difficulties
to make up a good background for a 'running hermetic than for a
shaman.
That's a result of trying to role-play, and although it would create
very interesting characters, these would not likely mix with a sammie
and decker group. So I say hermetics would make great characters, but
they are not likely to be 'runners.

And of course, that is all IMO and my personal understanding etc. pp.

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
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Message no. 20
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:02:38 -0800
> All Mages are created equal. Period.
>
> But my mage could kick a shamans butt anytime! : )

Maybe, but my Druid can do more damage angry than your mage can scared.
(And she is so unpredictable! Mages are soo... routine.)

> (Here we go again)

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 21
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:28:28 +1100
On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Arno R. Lehmann wrote:

SNIP!!

> Not only for Wolf's fighting abilities, but these too.
> In fact, I tried to point out the differences between shamans and
> hermetics. These differences are surely in part my personal
> interpretation, but I think that the big academical interest that
> hermetics have makes it more likely the do research in magic than
> the hermetic being a 'runner. So I would have a lot of difficulties
> to make up a good background for a 'running hermetic than for a
> shaman.
> That's a result of trying to role-play, and although it would create
> very interesting characters, these would not likely mix with a sammie
> and decker group. So I say hermetics would make great characters, but
> they are not likely to be 'runners.

You make mages sound like they belong in a small locked cell, surrounded
by piles upon piles of books and very *very* anal.

I believe that ones choice in playing a mage or shaman is almost an
aesthetic one. The main difference is the way they perceive magic. And
ones belief on how the world (magical, in this case) works should not
affect what you choose to make some money as much as you say it should.

Why would a shaman start to run? Various reasons. I grant you these are
different from a mages, but nevertheless mages still can run.

Anyway, I'm droning. To each his own.

Shaman-who-despite-his-callsign-plays-mages-51%-of-the-time.

_________________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In Neo-Arch Real Life: Shaman

Neurological problems 101:
Kluver-Bucy Syndrome.
Occurs with the bilateral removal of the temporal lobe,
including amygdala.
Symptoms: Overattentiveness, hyperorality, psychic
blindness, hypersexuality, absense of emotional response.
_________________________________________________________
Message no. 22
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:48:53 +0100
On Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:28:28 +1100, Calvin Hsieh wrote:

>
>You make mages sound like they belong in a small locked cell, surrounded
>by piles upon piles of books and very *very* anal.

Didn't mean to, but read on ...

>I believe that ones choice in playing a mage or shaman is almost an
>aesthetic one. The main difference is the way they perceive magic. And
^^^^^^^^^
That's it. That's the reason I wrote so often about my interpretation,
but I remember to read similar statements from others. Anyway, I
should have put a smiley in my messages ... well, here it is ;)

>ones belief on how the world (magical, in this case) works should not
>affect what you choose to make some money as much as you say it should.

Here I've got another opinion, especially concerning shamans. But that
would be IMO, of course.

>Why would a shaman start to run? Various reasons. I grant you these are
>different from a mages, but nevertheless mages still can run.

I'm agreeing. I was talking not of impossibilities, but of my opinion
on hermetics going into the shadows:
>> but I think that the big academical interest that
>> hermetics have makes it more likely the do research in magic than
>> the hermetic being a 'runner. So I would have a lot of difficulties
>> to make up a good background for a 'running hermetic than for a
>> shaman.
Once again, remember: It's all IMO.

>Anyway, I'm droning. To each his own.

Yeah. I'm not offended, only misunderstood, I think;)
And I don't mean to offend anybody, never (well, nearly ...;)

>Shaman-who-despite-his-callsign-plays-mages-51%-of-the-time.
That much?

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 23
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:28:18 +1100
At 02:48 AM 11/02/97 +0100, Arno wrote:

<Snip discussion on reasons for mages vs shamans>

>That's it. That's the reason I wrote so often about my interpretation,
>but I remember to read similar statements from others. Anyway, I
>should have put a smiley in my messages ... well, here it is ;)

I got plenty more from where that came from:

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

There. That should do it.

<And I keep on keeping on (snipping that is)>

>Yeah. I'm not offended, only misunderstood, I think;)
>And I don't mean to offend anybody, never (well, nearly ...;)

>>Shaman-who-despite-his-callsign-plays-mages-51%-of-the-time.
> That much?

Yeah well, I usually GM, so I don't get to "play" that often. So, whenever I
do play, I usually play the magic-user (to take an old **&* term) as I
understand the magic rules the best.

Some of the other players shun or even fear role-playing magic-users. One,
because they require a different level of role-playing; and two, because the
first mage character in the group knocked himself out with his first
fireball (at force 4 I might add) and didn't recover for the whole mission
(mainly because the group kept on dragging him around so he couldn't rest).

I don't mind though. I enjoy playing mages and shamen. They seem to have
more potential for variety than your average street sams etc. <At this
point, I quickly look around, hoping against all hope that a carp is not
aimed in my direction. Argh! Detecting the presence of a
thousand-year-old-carp in Bull's hands, I duck - under Gurth's stairs>

Shaman
PS. Can someone tell me if my signature came through on this one? I'm
Eudora-ing this one.
_______________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In ShadowRun: Shaman

"Strange are the times we live in.
Stranger are the times we are to live.
But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
- Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
________________________________________________________
Message no. 24
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:54:06 -0700
> From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
> _______________________________________________________
> In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
> In ShadowRun: Shaman
>
> "Strange are the times we live in.
> Stranger are the times we are to live.
> But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
> - Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
> ________________________________________________________

Looks ok to me...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 25
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:35:41 +0100
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:28:18 +1100, Calvin Hsieh wrote:

>At 02:48 AM 11/02/97 +0100, Arno wrote:
<snipping>
Thanks for your smileys, I will keep them and usem them when necessary.
(perhaps now? Ok. :)

<snap>
>Some of the other players shun or even fear role-playing magic-users. One,
>because they require a different level of role-playing; and two, because the

They don't require, but they should. Or, in other word, munchkin-mages
are annoying. I know, 'cause I experienced one. Can take a lot of the
fun out of roleplaying. A handful of good roleplayers sit there, and
one mage can screw it all up. Not so fine.

>first mage character in the group knocked himself out with his first
>fireball (at force 4 I might add) and didn't recover for the whole missio
>(mainly because the group kept on dragging him around so he couldn't rest).
>
>I don't mind though. I enjoy playing mages and shamen. They seem to have
>more potential for variety than your average street sams etc. <At this
>point, I quickly look around, hoping against all hope that a carp is not
>aimed in my direction. Argh! Detecting the presence of a
>thousand-year-old-carp in Bull's hands, I duck - under Gurth's stairs>

You could even get a carp from me ... If I had one. Perhaps you could
pose some of them ;)
No, I really must oppose here. I think you can make every PC an
interesting character. The potential for variety is, IMO, not based
on the stats or the equipment or the abilities, but on the player
behind her or him. So I think/hope I could play an interesting
street sam without getting stereotypical ... I even believe I do.

>
>Shaman
>PS. Can someone tell me if my signature came through on this one? I'm
>Eudora-ing this one.
>_______________________________________________________
>In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
>In ShadowRun: Shaman
>
>"Strange are the times we live in.
> Stranger are the times we are to live.
> But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
> - Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
>________________________________________________________
>

As you see, it came through.

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 26
From: "M. Gotthard" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:25:51 +1000
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Bull wrote:

>
> I'm also very careful careful with my elementals. They have a standing
> order that if they're evr seriously injured or outclassed, to run. I've
> invested a lot of time and effort into my two elementals, Cindy (Fire) and
> Sarah (Air), and my characters actually grown rather fond of them.
>

Yes I am fond of my Elementals Too. Spirits Direct attacks are usually
pitiful, and as a GM I prefer effects that last one action compared to
confusion etc that lasts for ages. (I guess I'm lazy.) :)

> Sure, intant spirits ala Shamans are nice, but being able to call up 2
> Force 6 elementals in a split second is even nicer...
>
> The only real difference between a Shaman and a Mage is role playing.
> Everything else really does (IMO) balance out...
>
I agree totally You get to a point of playing where you handicap your
characters on purpose, (Well Some of use do), to make the game more fun,
and to make roleplaying interaction better.

I've been dying to try a Dog Shaman because it gives me an Excuse to want
to go out and save the world. :) * If you knew my group you'd know why I
want this *

> Bull (Speaking as the mage Chaos)
> --


Joker. ( Courtesy of Bleach. )
Message no. 27
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Mages
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 02:26:53 +0000
On 20 Nov 97 at 11:59, David R. Lowe wrote:
[snip]
> That brings up a point that came up in a recent game. Are mages truly
> physcially and/or genetically different? That is, could a medkit or a
> trained physician know that they are working on an injured mage and take
> the necessary precautions?
[snip example]
> Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
> to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
> today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?
Magicians' genes are different, in several sourcebooks the "meta-gene"
is mentioned (although I do not think it's gene-mapped in 2058). But
this "meta-gene" is not influencing the physical appearance of a person
for all I know. The only way to "detect" if someone is magically active
(apart from astral perception) are just clues, like foci/fetishes (or
what appear likewise) and similar.

As there's no "public" paramedical ambulances in SR (at least none I
heared of), you'd have to rely on your friends or a contracted
corporation like DocWagon (or Crash Cart... hehe) to take care of you
in emergencies. Thus, I'd suppose you'd have the information you are
magically active encoded in your customer's card ( -wristband, -tag,
whatever), as well as information if you are allergic or a diabetic. Or
pray your friends remember... :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The light at the |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|end of the tunnel is|
| \___ __/ | | the headlight of an|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | approaching train. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- Skip (?) |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

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