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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600
John E Pederson wrote:
|
| I have no problem with allowing a magician to deck, with certain
| restrictions: magic interferes with technology, so he will probably pick
| up the modifier (or at least some portion of it) from the Matrix rules in
| SR2 if he's using normal, technological means to deck.

What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 2
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:37:22 EDT
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>John E Pederson wrote:
>|
>| I have no problem with allowing a magician to deck, with certain
>| restrictions: magic interferes with technology, so he will probably
>pick
>| up the modifier (or at least some portion of it) from the Matrix
>rules in
>| SR2 if he's using normal, technological means to deck.
>
>What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
>in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.


<grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading in
either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main book
that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the Matrix.
And since there's such a wonderful index in the main book, I can't be
sure it's not there even though it isn't listed in the index (suggestion
for SR3: a detailed index, even if it _would_ be somewhat long, would be
a very good idea). This is extremely frustrating, because I remember
seeing it long before I ever got to the list. It may be that my edition
of the book doesn't have it. I'll have to do some checking with a friend,
he's got a much older copy.


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:43:44 -0400
> From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 2:37 PM

> On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> writes:
> >John E Pederson wrote:

> >| I have no problem with allowing a magician to deck, with certain
> >| restrictions: magic interferes with technology, so he will probably
> >pick
> >| up the modifier (or at least some portion of it) from the Matrix
> >rules in
> >| SR2 if he's using normal, technological means to deck.

> >What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
> >in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.

> <grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading in
> either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main book
> that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
> modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the Matrix.
> And since there's such a wonderful index in the main book, I can't be
> sure it's not there even though it isn't listed in the index (suggestion
> for SR3: a detailed index, even if it _would_ be somewhat long, would be
> a very good idea). This is extremely frustrating, because I remember
> seeing it long before I ever got to the list. It may be that my edition
> of the book doesn't have it. I'll have to do some checking with a friend,
> he's got a much older copy.

Well, I personally wouldn't include such a modifier. IMO, the inability
for magic and technology to mix well is already represented by magic loss
for cyber/bioware and the inablity to use magic in the matrix. Thus, I
would let a mage deck if he wanted to, but the datajack he gets will take
away some of his essence, and he won't be very skilled at being either a
mage or a decker, because there just aren't enough character generation
points or priorities to go around.

> --
> -Canthros

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:38:08 +0100
In message <19970805.143646.23535.0.lobo1@****.com>, John E Pederson
<lobo1@****.COM> writes
>On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
>>What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
>>in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.
>
><grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading in
>either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main book
>that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
>modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the Matrix.

It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:46:01 -0600
Paul J. Adam wrote:
|
| In message <19970805.143646.23535.0.lobo1@****.com>, John E Pederson
| <lobo1@****.COM> writes
| >On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
| >>What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
| >>in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.
| >
| ><grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading in
| >either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main book
| >that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
| >modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the Matrix.
|
| It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".

Sorry, that doesn't count. Adventures aren't cannon :) And, I
believe that Ivy and Chrome is an SR1 adventure.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 6
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:47:01 +0100
In message <199708052046.OAA02423@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> writes
>Paul J. Adam wrote:
>| It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".
>
>Sorry, that doesn't count. Adventures aren't cannon :)

Correct, adventures are not artillery pieces firing (or able to fire)
explosive ammunuition. One wonders why you felt the need to state
something so obvious...

</smartarse> ;)

>And, I
>believe that Ivy and Chrome is an SR1 adventure.

Oops. You're right.

I like the rule in general simply because of the way I play magicians
(they have a feel for background count without needing to assence, and
the discord between the Matrix image and their astral feelings is
jarring IMHO) so I kept it into SR2.

Don't think it's anything official, though.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:40:13 -0600
Paul J. Adam wrote:
|
| In message <199708052046.OAA02423@******>, David Buehrer
| <dbuehrer@****.ORG> writes
| >Paul J. Adam wrote:
| >| It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".
| >
| >Sorry, that doesn't count. Adventures aren't cannon :)
|
| Correct, adventures are not artillery pieces firing (or able to fire)
| explosive ammunuition. One wonders why you felt the need to state
| something so obvious...
|
| </smartarse> ;)

<chuckle> Actually, I was being a smartarse when I asked for a rule quote,
cuz I know it's not in the BBB.

| I like the rule in general simply because of the way I play magicians
| (they have a feel for background count without needing to assence, and
| the discord between the Matrix image and their astral feelings is
| jarring IMHO) so I kept it into SR2.

I went the other way. If a mage wants to pay a point of magic to jack into
a deck, then I feel that's enough.

Different strokes for different folks :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 8
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:15:05 EDT
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:38:08 +0100 "Paul J. Adam"
<shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:

>>On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
>>>What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
>>>in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.
>>
>><grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading
>in
>>either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main
>book
>>that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
>>modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the
>Matrix.
>
>It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".


Yes, but where is it in the main book? :) I'm thinking it may have been
under "Using Cyberdecks" on pg173. It doesn't appear there in my book,
but the column ends short and the page layout matches up with my memory
(which, although somewhat unreliable, is the only thing I've got to back
me up right now:) Could someone (Hey, losthalo!) with an early (mine's
11th) printing (or maybe the hardback) check this for me?


--
-Canthros (Why does my mind play mind games with me?)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 9
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:31:25 -0500
You wrote:
> Yes, but where is it in the main book? :) I'm thinking it may have been
> under "Using Cyberdecks" on pg173. It doesn't appear there in my book,
> but the column ends short and the page layout matches up with my memory
> (which, although somewhat unreliable, is the only thing I've got to back
> me up right now:) Could someone (Hey, losthalo!) with an early (mine's
> 11th) printing (or maybe the hardback) check this for me?
You rang? OKay, I just checked my copy, and don't see the modifier mentioned
anywhere. I believe it *was* only a 1st ed rule from VR1.0, and no longer is
canon. Sorry.

losthalo
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:57:47 -0600
John E Pederson wrote:
|
| >>On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:33:42 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
| >>>What page is that on? I thought that was a rule that only appeared
| >>>in VR1.0 and wasn't carried over to SR2.
| >>
| >><grumble> I can't seem to find it right now, I just remember reading
| >in
| >>either the Matrix or possibly Behind The Scenes Chapter of the main
| >book
| >>that a magician who was using a cyberdeck in the Matrix picked up a
| >>modifier equal to his Magic Rating to all tests conducted in the
| >Matrix.
| >
| >It's also in the module "Ivy and Chrome".
|
| Yes, but where is it in the main book? :) I'm thinking it may have been
| under "Using Cyberdecks" on pg173. It doesn't appear there in my book,
| but the column ends short and the page layout matches up with my memory
| (which, although somewhat unreliable, is the only thing I've got to back
| me up right now:) Could someone (Hey, losthalo!) with an early (mine's
| 11th) printing (or maybe the hardback) check this for me?

<BEG> You're not gonna find it.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 11
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:10:14 EDT
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:57:47 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:

><BEG> You're not gonna find it.


You know, I get the odd feeling that you get some kind of sick, sadistic
thrill out of this whole thing. 'Sides, I already know it's not in _my_
book. I just have to check to see if it's in my friend's copy, that's
all. Yeah, and then everything will be fine, just fine...

:) If I find it, I'll let you know, otherwise, I'll concede the point
(are you happy now? :)


--
-Canthros, who has the strangest feeling that someone else inside his
head is playing a practical joke...
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 12
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:10:14 EDT
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:31:25 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:

<<You rang? OKay, I just checked my copy, and don't see the modifier
mentioned anywhere. I believe it *was* only a 1st ed rule from VR1.0,
and no longer is canon. Sorry.>>

Boy, a fat lot of help you were:) Well, I'll check with my friend's copy
if I see him tomorrow (though it'll still prolly be a week till I hear
anything back on this). <shrug> I'm pretty sure I saw it in the main
book, though I suppose it's possible my mind is overlapping something I
read from Ivy and Chrome with the first book (wouldn't be the first time
it screwed up on me, I suppose).


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 13
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mages and Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:45:38 -0600
John E Pederson wrote:
|
| On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:57:47 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
|
| ><BEG> You're not gonna find it.
|
| You know, I get the odd feeling that you get some kind of sick, sadistic
| thrill out of this whole thing.

Well, to some extent yes. I'm in kind of a mood lately (see the
recent prod I took at Keith). I've been doing a great job at my
company for the last five years, but got a whole 5% raise this year.
And I found out I'm making less then the starting salary of a lesser
position. Sorry that it's been creeping onto the list a little bit.

| :) If I find it, I'll let you know, otherwise, I'll concede the point
| (are you happy now? :)

This came up about 6? months ago and no one could find a reference in
any of the SRII books. If you can find it some of the oldtimers will be
eating crow (I'll have an extra big helping :).

Good hunting.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

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