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Message no. 1
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:39:00 MDT
While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
rules before they get abused.

Mike
Message no. 2
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:41:21 -0500
>
> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
> serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
> rules before they get abused.
>
> Mike
>
The geas are a penalty for losing magic points. They don't make up for them-
the only way to do that is initiation.
Message no. 3
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:39:00 EST
Mike wrote:
>While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
>can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
>rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
>this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
>geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
>serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
>rules before they get abused.
Your right on the account that it can be abused. But each geasa you take
limits on how you can cast your magic. In order to cast spells you must
meet the conditions of the geasa, because if you break them you are
penalized +2/geasa broken. Unless you want to spend your magic career
casting spells astrally.
---Sedah Drol
Message no. 4
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:04:46 -0600
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:

> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells?

I think it is valid, but maybe only initiates can do that. Anyway, you'd
better catch this one quick.

> I know this is a serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up
> loopholes in the rules before they get abused.
>
> Mike

Ahhh... Advice that I should have followed _long_ before becoming a GM.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 5
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:25:51 -0400
Mike Johnson wrote:

>While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
>can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
>rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
>this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
>geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
>serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
>rules before they get abused.


Sedah Drol replied:

>Your right on the account that it can be abused. But each geasa you take
>limits on how you can cast your magic. In order to cast spells you must
>meet the conditions of the geasa, because if you break them you are
>penalized +2/geasa broken. Unless you want to spend your magic career
>casting spells astrally.


John IV also replied:

>I think it is valid, but maybe only initiates can do that. Anyway, you'd
>better catch this one quick.


The explaination isn't that bad, actually. Basically, for every 2 points of
Magic Rating a mage loses, he is REQUIRED to take on a geas. This signifies
his lesser attunement with magic, etc. Initiating is the ONLY way to gain or
regain Magic Rating. (they get +1 Magic Rating for every grade of initiation
ABOVE grade 0)

So, just because someone gets all cybered up and takes some geasa does NOT mean
that the character is anywhere near the equivelant of a non-cybered "run-of-the-
mill" mage when it comes to spellcasting. Even if the mage fulfills all geasa
acquired during the loss of Magic Rating, the number of dice he has to roll for
some magic-related tests and the power of the spells cast safely is greatly
reduced. (EX: said mage takes 2.0 points of essence loss due to some new
cyberwear. The mage must now take on ONE geas (of the player's choice,
usually). Said mage only has a Magic Rating of 4 now (since Magic Rating
directly correlates to Essence without the fractions). This means said mage
can only cast power 4 spells without automatically receiving Physical Damage
from drain! This doesn't even include the fact that many geasa can give away
the mage for what he is (due to noticeability). Also, when trying to break a
geas temporarily and still cast a spell, the mage has +2 to his target number
for EACH geas broken. Imagine how weak a mage would be with two geasa and a
Magic Rating of 2!

Initiation can get rid of Geasa and raises Magic Rating....but that costs major
karma and is the only way to do such a thing. Go ahead and let your players
get cybered up and take on 2 or 3 geasa....they will soon realize that they may
be fast and strong, but every mage battle they get into kicks their butts into
next week!

Hope this helps! :)


Justin :)

_______________________________________________________________
(jpinnow@*****.edu)

Geek Code (version 2.1):

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a23 w+(+++) v?(*)>!v C+(++) U- P? !L
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!D B--- e+ u+ h- f? r+(*) N----
Y++

It all starts from within you.
Message no. 6
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:42:13 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
> serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
> rules before they get abused.
> Mike

The Geis doesn't "make up" for the magic attribute, it's still
gone. What it does is allow him to maintain his magical equilibrium. If
a mage doesn't take a Geis for every 2 pts of magic rating lost, he can
never become an initiate. Geisa are not adhoc magic rating.

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 7
From: MENARD Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 11:06:46 -0400
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:

> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
> serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
> rules before they get abused.

geas are consequence of magic loss, the trauma associated with it, and
they DO NOT make up for the loss of magic! A mage who has lost 2 points
of magic must deal with the magic loss AND the GEASA. So, no loopholes yet!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:11:21 -0400
> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
> serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
> rules before they get abused.

Yeah, it has that potential.. My advice is, exert some GM control over what
constitutes proper geasa. The ones in the book try to reinforce that it
has to be an actual limitation on the character or his magic.. "I can't eat
soyburgers on Thursday" doesn't cut it. If the character really WANTS to
pick up three geasa, let him get away with it, then let him regret those
limitations as adventures progress.


(Reminds me of just last weekend, when one of my players had introduced a
new Troll into the group.. He'd rolled up a Deadly allergy, but wouldn't
tell anyone [even me] what it was. He thought it was something he'd never
encounter while adventuring.. The first adventure, a free spirit uses its
Wealth power and showers 'em with gold coins. The player was ready to
throttle me.. I had no idea, it was pure coincidence.) >8->


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Don't take life too seriously.
My opinions are my opinions. | You will never get out of it
Please don't blame anyone else. | alive." -- (Unknown)
Message no. 9
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 19:00:22 -0400
Mike wrote:

> Now couldn't this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning,
taking 3
>geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells?

I very well could. So you as GM would have to make sure that those Geasa
were enough handicap to offset the gain in cyberware. I would tell the PC
what the Geasa is going to be (not let them pick it) just to ensure that the
Geasa was both stiff enough and add fun to the character (how many runners
are going to take dancing Swan Lake as a Geas?).

Duke
Message no. 10
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:03:46 GMT
> While scanning the grimoire I noticed that, according to the rules a mage
> can take a geas to make up for lost magic points. And according to the
> rules the geas basically makes up for the lost magic points. Now couldn't
> this lead to mages buying cyber and bio ware in the beginning, taking 3
> geasa and still being capable of tossing killer spells? I know this is a
> serious munchikin kinda thing but I'm trying to close up loopholes in the
> rules before they get abused.
> Mike

Nope, not at all. Lose two points of magic and get stuck with a geas.

And you *still* don't get the magic back: killer spells still hurt, but
you need your talisman/have to shout a lot/can only do magic after
dark as well. Ouch. It makes cybermages a lot more balanced.

The *only* way to regain Magic the book accepts is initiation. You can
initiate to Level 1, slam in six Essence worth of cyber, and still have
Magic 1 (and *three*, count'em, geasa) but the geasa are imposed, not
a sneaky way to be a cyberwizard.

And losing both legs could get you a geas too... (2 limbs, 2 points of
Magic...)

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 11
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:47:00 MDT
>The geas are a penalty for losing magic points. They don't make up for them-
>the only way to do that is initiation.
>
>
That is true according to the rules. In the Grimoire on page 52 it states.

When a magician loses that second (or fourth, or sixth) point, he picks a
new geas. Until he does so, he cannot use magic at all: his power is frozen
by the psychological trauma of his loss.


This makes it look like if you don't take a geas you can't cast magic at
all. However there is a way out without the geas.

<still on page 52>

The magician can reject his geasa. But having chosen this option, there is
no going back. He can NEVER change his mind. Once the magician makes this
choice, his geasa drop away. He can ignore them without any penalty to his
magic. But...

He can never become an initiate. If he already is an initiate, he loses his
grades. If he is a member of a magical group, the group may expel him.

<here is the crucial one> His magic attribute rating goes down immediately
to 6 minus his total lifetime losses to his Magic Attribute. If this makes
him a mundane on the spot, so be it. The only time this really matters is
if the magician was a high-grade initiate in the process of replacing lost
magic points.

This is the path of the Burned Out Mage.

This whole section of the rules leads me to beleive that unless you forget
your geas then you don't lose the magic points. However these are optional
rules.

Mike
Message no. 12
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 16:39:23 -0500
>
> >The geas are a penalty for losing magic points. They don't make up for them-
> >the only way to do that is initiation.
> >
> >
> That is true according to the rules. In the Grimoire on page 52 it states.
>
> When a magician loses that second (or fourth, or sixth) point, he picks a
> new geas. Until he does so, he cannot use magic at all: his power is frozen
> by the psychological trauma of his loss.

Snipped stuff about burned out mage, rejecting geas= no initation pluss magic
goes to six- lifetime losses

>
> This whole section of the rules leads me to beleive that unless you forget
> your geas then you don't lose the magic points. However these are optional
> rules.
>
> Mike
>
I can see how you got that impression- the fact that magic dropps when you
reject a geas might lead you to think that it doesn't if you accept the geas.
But, look at that first bit- You don't get a geas unless you loose 2 magic
points. So obviosly, if you have gotten the geas, you have lost the points.
Keeping the geas maintains your acess to the higher magics of initiation-
without wich, you might loose all your magic.
Message no. 13
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 19:14:00 MDT
>I can see how you got that impression- the fact that magic dropps when you
>reject a geas might lead you to think that it doesn't if you accept the geas.
>But, look at that first bit- You don't get a geas unless you loose 2 magic
>points. So obviosly, if you have gotten the geas, you have lost the points.
>Keeping the geas maintains your acess to the higher magics of initiation-
>without wich, you might loose all your magic.
>
>
Okay.. that makes sense... Thanks for clearing this up for me..

Mike

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Mages, Cyberware, and Geasa, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!