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Message no. 1
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Magic after creation.
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:04:39 -0600
Okay, you can turn you character into any of the acrytype after creation.

Examples:
datajack + deck + computer skill = decker
datajack + VCR = Rigger
Maybe some cyber + Da Skillz = Street Sammie

However, I have seen no published rules on "making" a character magically
active after creation. I wish this was possible 'cause it would make for
some interesting characters. Imagine the mojo-phobe (?) that suddenly find
his magical powers showing themselves (ehwn he's 38!!). Or, some of my
characters would like to be able to stop just being sorcery adepts and
become full mages. I feel that going from adept (any 'cept phys.) to mage is
probably the most realistic (!?) change.

My players are munchie, I think. But, I still want to leave the avenue open
for later. The original way I designed it wasthey would have to under go the
equivalent of an initiation (self or group, ordeal or not) of a certain
grade and then they would come out of this initiation with full magic
powers. I might require a test of Magic against like, (12-Magic rating) If
it fails, they just can't "reach" the "higher" magic inside them. No
Karma
cost if they fail the test AND they can never attempt this again (Pending GM
Discretion, There was SOME reason that the process didn't work.)

As for mundanes, I'm not sure. Given that their powers have not manifest
spontaniously already, I think it is very doubtful that they can do a
self-initiation so, a type of initiation with a group (but no group
discount, can take ordeals) cost of double the grade an adept would go
through. Test Essence (Round down) against 14 (12 - Magic (0) + 2 (Defaulted
to essence?)). If they just want to become an adept, grade is as per an
adept become full mage, test is Essence (Round Down) against 8 (6 - Magic
+2(?)).

When a mundane becomes a mage/adept they get a Magic rating of Essence
(Round Down) NOT Six. (Could you image a mundane that waited until they got
a this wizzer stuff, leaving 1 Essence, then they become a mage!?)

(Oh, BTW, I thought I should mention that I don't have the SRComp and don't
use edges/flaws so I don't have though freaky 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of adept.
I'm also still using the ABCDE priorities thing (no pts.) with small
insignificant changes. AND NO PSYSICAL MAGES)

Questions? Comments? Flames?

The Twinkmeister
gilmeth@*********.com
SBN: TBA
ICQ UIN: TBA
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/
Message no. 2
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic after creation.
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:52:22 PST
>Okay, you can turn you character into any of the acrytype after
creation.
>
>Examples:
> datajack + deck + computer skill = decker
> datajack + VCR = Rigger
> Maybe some cyber + Da Skillz = Street Sammie
>
>However, I have seen no published rules on "making" a character
magically
>active after creation. I wish this was possible 'cause it would make
for
>some interesting characters.

Well, a starting magic-user, when made, is assumed to have just
learned the basics of their magic-using abilities. You could make that
mage be someone who "just discovered" their abilities and is still
coping with them. However, suddenly having that street sam realize he's
magically active is a bit on the munch side- even if his essence is too
low to be of any good.
Magic users in the Shadowrun world are rare. This is a fact that
sometimes gets lost in many campaigns. When SR first started, 15% of
the population was 'magically adept'. Since then, I would say the
numbers have gone up *maybe* as high as 5%, but not much more than that.
And don't forget that most schools in Shadowrun have aptitude tests
in early grades to see if a child is magically active or not. Granted,
it doesn't always work, but that makes the odds even less that a person
is magically active without them knowing it. It's something genetic- ya
either got it, or ya don't.
I shudder to think of a rule system that lets any ol' Schmoe have
latent magic abilities. Priorities are for a reason, and magic should
still be somewhat rare and mysterious in SR- as well as deadly.



-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


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Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic after creation.
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:28:05 EST
> However, I have seen no published rules on "making" a character
> magically active after creation. I wish this was possible 'cause it

Okay, this is a topic that tends to cause lots of heated opinions and
cries of "Munchie" all around. That being said, here's what I do:

I allow it, in very special circumstances. I prefer the fact that
there are no hard rules for it, because face it: It's a fact of the
Sixth world that some are born with the Power, and Some aren't.
Ditto with the race. You just have to live with it.

Now as for my exception: I allow a character that invests a lot of
time, energy, skill, and Karma to eventually make the transition.
The trick is, I never tell them how much they need. Thus only the
ones dedicated to the concept will do it. The munchies never bother,
because it doesn't pay off. (and since I'll know if they're munchie
it will NEVER pay off)

In the 8-9 years I've been GMing, only one character has tried well
enough, long enough, and role-played well enough to achieve this.

> would make for some interesting characters. Imagine the mojo-phobe
> (?) that suddenly find his magical powers showing themselves (ehwn

then it's a GM toy and you can do as you wish. Ditto with late
Goblinization. :) (Humanis Policlub member, huh?)

> he's 38!!). Or, some of my characters would like to be able to stop
> just being sorcery adepts and become full mages. I feel that going
> from adept (any 'cept phys.) to mage is probably the most realistic
> (!?) change.

The thing to worry about here is why they are doing it. For more
power? Nope, should have been a full mage from the start. The
character I allowed to do didn't have a clue about magic until he had
played for a while. Then he started buying the skills and looking
into it (without any guarantee it would work, mind you). Eventually
he made a deal with a free spirit to do astral gateway, and did an
Astral Quest. (rating unknown to him). Nearly died, but ended up
getting accepted by Coyote.

> My players are munchie, I think. But, I still want to leave the
> avenue open for later. The original way I designed it wasthey would

In this case, don't make rules. Muchie and/or powergaming players
will just abuse them. instead just tell them it may be possible, but
then again.....

If someone is doing it for role-playing reasons, it will become
obvious. If not, screw them.

> "reach" the "higher" magic inside them. No Karma cost if they
fail
> the test AND they can never attempt this again (Pending GM
> Discretion, There was SOME reason that the process didn't work.)

I'd say charge them for the attempt. Unless they aren't responsible
for it happening, they are trying to have it happen. Effort =Karma.

> Questions? Comments? Flames?

Don't try and make hard rules for it. Deal with it on a case-by-case
basis, and keep it rare. (and out of Munchie hands...)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Magic after creation.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:51:27 +0100
>Okay, you can turn you character into any of the acrytype after creation.
>
>Examples:
> datajack + deck + computer skill = decker
> datajack + VCR = Rigger
> Maybe some cyber + Da Skillz = Street Sammie

Yep. That's the main advantage of being a non magical one. Anyway, it's not
that easy. Becoming decker costs a lot of nuyen (except if you find the
deck). For a rigger, it costs money too (for the vehicles) and essence.

>However, I have seen no published rules on "making" a character magically
>active after creation. I wish this was possible 'cause it would make for
>some interesting characters. Imagine the mojo-phobe (?) that suddenly find
>his magical powers showing themselves (ehwn he's 38!!). Or, some of my
>characters would like to be able to stop just being sorcery adepts and
>become full mages. I feel that going from adept (any 'cept phys.) to mage is
>probably the most realistic (!?) change.

It's better like this. Such evolution of a character must be quite unique.
If there was a rule for that, players (characters ?) could plan on that.
You can see an exemple with the secrets of powers novels. I did something
similar with one of my players. He had a decker (a good one) and became
shaman. But he didn't like it at all. As a shaman, he always thought he was
manipulated by his totem and had poor skills and spells. As a decker, he
was a lot less effective. Lastly, he tried to create a reality filter to
make matrix look like astral. That way, it was a bit easier to run the
matrix...
I also permitted an earth elementalist to become full hermetic mage. In
fact, he didn't know that it would happen (the character nor the player).
He had a mysterious past (he lost memory) and had to discover who he was.
In fact, he was (in the past) a mage that undertook a ritual to make him
lose memory. The objective of the ritual was to reaquire memory and magic
capabilities. This could give him a better link with every elements.
Actually, it's not exactly that, it a lot more complex, but that's a good
abstract.
I stated that his research of his past would be some kind of quest during
which he could acquire the use of new magical energies. After all, he
succeeded to acquire the use of air, water and earth elements but didn't
succeed with the two others.

>My players are munchie, I think. But, I still want to leave the avenue open
>for later. The original way I designed it wasthey would have to under go the
>equivalent of an initiation (self or group, ordeal or not) of a certain
>grade and then they would come out of this initiation with full magic
>powers. I might require a test of Magic against like, (12-Magic rating) If
>it fails, they just can't "reach" the "higher" magic inside them.
No Karma
>cost if they fail the test AND they can never attempt this again (Pending GM
>Discretion, There was SOME reason that the process didn't work.)

Tests are not a good idea IMO. It's YOUR decision to decide if someone can
become a mage. If the guy is old, I think it would be easier to become a
shaman (or a houngan). You don't have to hide behind dice rolls. The reason
for not becoming magician is that they didn't pay the priority, that's all.

>As for mundanes, I'm not sure. Given that their powers have not manifest
>spontaniously already, I think it is very doubtful that they can do a
>self-initiation so, a type of initiation with a group (but no group
>discount, can take ordeals) cost of double the grade an adept would go
>through. Test Essence (Round down) against 14 (12 - Magic (0) + 2 (Defaulted
>to essence?)). If they just want to become an adept, grade is as per an
>adept become full mage, test is Essence (Round Down) against 8 (6 - Magic
>+2(?)).
>
>When a mundane becomes a mage/adept they get a Magic rating of Essence
>(Round Down) NOT Six. (Could you image a mundane that waited until they got
>a this wizzer stuff, leaving 1 Essence, then they become a mage!?)
>

IMO Magic should begin at 1 then rise up to Essence rounded down.

>(Oh, BTW, I thought I should mention that I don't have the SRComp and don't
>use edges/flaws so I don't have though freaky 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of adept.
>I'm also still using the ABCDE priorities thing (no pts.) with small
>insignificant changes. AND NO PSYSICAL MAGES)

Too bad. You could have used an edge *potential mage* with a cost of 5.
This would allow the player to become a mage during game time.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic after creation.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:15:07 EST
In a message dated 98-01-20 16:07:16 EST, gilmeth@*********.COM writes:

> Okay, you can turn you character into any of the acrytype after creation.
>
> Examples:
> datajack + deck + computer skill = decker

Plus attitude..

> datajack + VCR = Rigger

plus the car, plus the plane, plus the drone(s), plus the tank(?)...

> Maybe some cyber + Da Skillz = Street Sammie

and "duh" brain...

> However, I have seen no published rules on "making" a character magically
> active after creation. I wish this was possible 'cause it would make for
> some interesting characters. Imagine the mojo-phobe (?) that suddenly find
> his magical powers showing themselves (ehwn he's 38!!). Or, some of my
> characters would like to be able to stop just being sorcery adepts and
> become full mages. I feel that going from adept (any 'cept phys.) to mage
is
> probably the most realistic (!?) change.

I whole heartedly agree with you.

> My players are munchie, I think. But, I still want to leave the avenue open
> for later. The original way I designed it wasthey would have to under go
the
> equivalent of an initiation (self or group, ordeal or not) of a certain
> grade and then they would come out of this initiation with full magic
> powers. I might require a test of Magic against like, (12-Magic rating) If
> it fails, they just can't "reach" the "higher" magic inside
them. No Karma
> cost if they fail the test AND they can never attempt this again (Pending
GM
> Discretion, There was SOME reason that the process didn't work.)

First of all, aren't we all a bit munchie somewhere??? Secondly, the idea of
using initiation is a nice once, as it would allow for development, instead of
the "all at once theory." I've used something similar to what you propose.
We've "geasa'd" a guy for the talents s/he didn't have. No Conjuring, No
Enchanting, No Projection, given each one a specific geasa, then as Grade was
developed, each geasa was overcome in turn.

> As for mundanes, I'm not sure. Given that their powers have not manifest
> spontaniously already, I think it is very doubtful that they can do a
> self-initiation so, a type of initiation with a group (but no group
> discount, can take ordeals) cost of double the grade an adept would go
> through. Test Essence (Round down) against 14 (12 - Magic (0) + 2
(Defaulted
> to essence?)). If they just want to become an adept, grade is as per an
> adept become full mage, test is Essence (Round Down) against 8 (6 - Magic
> +2(?)).

Oooo, neato, just painful. How about if the Mundane has assistance from a
free spirit. Contrary to popular belief, there are a few of them out there
that would be willing to help with the correct incentive. Especially if the
spirit believes the individual in question would be willing to continue the
"incentives" (read as karma) and as the person becomes a more "whole"
magician, those incentives could become better (using the Free Spirits and
Karma rules in Grimoire II)

> When a mundane becomes a mage/adept they get a Magic rating of Essence
> (Round Down) NOT Six. (Could you image a mundane that waited until they got
> a this wizzer stuff, leaving 1 Essence, then they become a mage!?)

Oh yeah, have seen this. Kind of interesting actually...

> (Oh, BTW, I thought I should mention that I don't have the SRComp and don't
> use edges/flaws so I don't have though freaky 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of adept.
> I'm also still using the ABCDE priorities thing (no pts.) with small
> insignificant changes. AND NO PSYSICAL MAGES)

So????

> Questions? Comments? Flames?

Only those mentioned, I couldn't flame you if I wanted to...the cat stole the
lighter and ran away with it last night ;)

-K

Further Reading

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Thwap!