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Message no. 1
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:33:33 PST
>> Okay. I've said this before and I guess it needs to be stated
>> again. Steve Kenson didn't intend the talents to be purchased by the
already magically active.
>> Therefore, you now have full magicians, adepts, and people with
>> talents. The SR Companion doesn't cover the subject of talents well
>> at all, and what is stated there can be tossed out the window, IMO.
>
>I saved two longish post my Mr. Kenson on this subject, and can
>repost them if anyone is interested. It's worth reading; it clearly
>indicates his intentions with the Magical edges, and when used
>properly gives a player a lot more options.

Why then were they changed? I for one see such abilities being
"edges" or low cost BP options as making mage types way to common. An
ultralow essence samurai, with 5+ BI, having Astral sight and
conjouring? Not that he'd be a threat to a real mage, but still, with a
good unarmed and mental stats, he'd do quite nicely in astral combat.
For less than 10 points? EESH.
Its not rediculous, but it blows the old dicotemy away- my samurai,
quite like above, studies magic theory a bit, but has NO magic ability,
and It'd change the feel of the game if he could. Hell, cyberzombies
could have astral sight! Under thespellcasting edge, initiation and
foci are ways to increase the power of the spell. Can all the other
"talented" inititate and use foci, too?!
I'd love to see those leters, myself- I've checked the website, and
the caveate that such powers "shouldn't" be abused didn't explain why
magic in general should be more common, as it likely would be. Maybe it
IS a good direction for the game, but its a radical change.


Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psycotic - Einstien

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 2
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:51:34 -0800
At 22:33 10/26/97 PST, Mon goose wrote:
> Why then were they changed? I for one see such abilities being
>"edges" or low cost BP options as making mage types way to common. An
>ultralow essence samurai, with 5+ BI, having Astral sight and
>conjouring? Not that he'd be a threat to a real mage, but still, with a
>good unarmed and mental stats, he'd do quite nicely in astral combat.
>For less than 10 points? EESH.

Well, bear in mind that the sum of Essence loss and Body Index has to
be less than 5 or bye-bye Astral Sight.

> Hell, cyberzombies
>could have astral sight!

Nope. Subzero Essence would kiss that ability good-bye. But I bet there
could be lots of deckers with minor talents.

However, having such low build point costs would suggest that there should
be lots of really minor adepts out there with those talents, which is
not something that I've seen before in FASA publications-- magical
activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population, and with
Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect things like that
to be a lot more common.

I actually *like* the notion that these Edges are available for regular
magical characters: it gives them a few surprises to pull. (And
astral perception is overpriced for physads anyway...)

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
Message no. 3
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:05:13 +0500
On 27 Oct 97 at 10:51, Max Rible wrote:

> However, having such low build point costs would suggest that there
> should be lots of really minor adepts out there with those talents,
> which is not something that I've seen before in FASA publications--
> magical activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population,
> and with Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect
> things like that to be a lot more common.

Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.

--

drekhead@***.net
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Sig file lost.
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Message no. 4
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:26:14 -0800
At 14:05 10/27/97 +0500, Drekhead wrote:
>On 27 Oct 97 at 10:51, Max Rible wrote:
>> However, having such low build point costs would suggest that there
>> should be lots of really minor adepts out there with those talents,
>> which is not something that I've seen before in FASA publications--
>> magical activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population,
>> and with Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect
>> things like that to be a lot more common.

>Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
>nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.

Why would that make "you'd expect things like that to be a lot more common"
untrue?

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
Message no. 5
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:38:41 +0500
On 27 Oct 97 at 11:26, Max Rible wrote:

> At 14:05 10/27/97 +0500, Drekhead wrote:
> >On 27 Oct 97 at 10:51, Max Rible wrote:
> >> However, having such low build point costs would suggest that there
> >> should be lots of really minor adepts out there with those talents,
> >> which is not something that I've seen before in FASA publications--
> >> magical activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population,
> >> and with Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect
> >> things like that to be a lot more common.
>
> >Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
> >nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.
>
> Why would that make "you'd expect things like that to be a lot more
> common" untrue?

The not true part was that it was not in a FASA publication. Sorry
for the mix up.

--

drekhead@***.net
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Sig file lost.
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Message no. 6
From: adonis <adonis@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:12:10 -0500
[snip]
> Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
> nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.
>
It was in 'Secrets of Power Vol.2: Choose Your Enemies Carefully'

:)

SOOiCydE
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:57:34 -0500
In a message dated 97-10-27 14:23:29 EST, you write:

> > However, having such low build point costs would suggest that there
> > should be lots of really minor adepts out there with those talents,
> > which is not something that I've seen before in FASA publications--
> > magical activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population,
> > and with Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect
> > things like that to be a lot more common.
>
> Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
> nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.

But, as time passes, and as the level of mana rises, like Keith mentioned in
his posting earlier last week, there will be greater numbers of people that
will have even rudimantary magical abilities.

Mike
Message no. 8
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:18:03 -0500
> From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 2:57 AM

> But, as time passes, and as the level of mana rises, like Keith mentioned
in
> his posting earlier last week, there will be greater numbers of people
that
> will have even rudimantary magical abilities.

Yeah, in my campaign the number of Magically Active individuals is 2%, not
the standard 1%. This makes room for people with Talents. Also, keep in
mind that perhaps 1/2 - 1% of these people aren't aware of their abilities
or are not trained/don't know how to use them, etc. Thus, there's really
only 1 - 1 1/2% of the population who is Magically Active and can use any
of their abilities in that area.

Still rare, but up to the times, IMO.

> Mike

Justin :)
Message no. 9
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:58:27 PST
>> Why then were they changed? I for one see such abilities being
>>"edges" or low cost BP options as making mage types way to common. An
ultralow essence samurai, with 5+ BI, having Astral sight and
>>conjouring?

>Well, bear in mind that the sum of Essence loss and Body Index has to
>be less than 5 or bye-bye Astral Sight.
>
>>Hell, cyberzombies could have astral sight!
>
>Nope. Subzero Essence would kiss that ability good-bye. But I bet
>there could be lots of deckers with minor talents.

And thats not enough?! Lots of our groups bloat up to 25% mage already!

>I actually *like* the notion that these Edges are available for regular
>magical characters: it gives them a few surprises to pull. (And
>astral perception is overpriced for physads anyway...)

The point of my original post is that Steve Kenson had origianlly
intended the deges to be available to (otherwise) magically NON-active
characters. I was wondering if the very large impact this would have on
the game-world was intended, or if it was supposed to be used sparringly
or with the assumption that characters do not reperesent the general
population (as I assume with the "more metahumans" option).
As wrtiiten in the companion, it makes the various types of mages
and adepts a bit more versatile and balanced, which is quite cool. But
letting an otherwise un magical character buy them changes the mage/tech
ratio drastically- I think most players would want characters with some
minor magic. AFAIK, no restiction on having a magic rating of any sort
is listed in the rules on Steves page, meaning the examples I gave are
valid character possibilities, albeit munchkinous, or in the case ofthe
zombie, probably not available as PC's. Indeed, if minor talents come
with a magic rating, It'd be worth having one just to be able to use a
weapon focus.

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psycotic - Einstien

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 10
From: Sean Martinez <el_bandit@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:23:59 -0500
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:58:27 PST Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
writes:

> The point of my original post is that Steve Kenson had origianlly
>intended the deges to be available to (otherwise) magically NON-active
>characters. I was wondering if the very large impact this would have on
>the game-world was intended, or if it was supposed to be used sparringly
>or with the assumption that characters do not reperesent the general
>population (as I assume with the "more metahumans" option).

Actually, I would think the full magical charcaters would only make up
1-10% of the magical population of the world. The other 90% would be the
semi magical adepts presented in the Companion.

-El Bandit

Http://members.aol.com/elbandit/index.html
Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:00:41 -0500
In a message dated 97-10-27 14:29:11 EST, slothman@*********.ORG writes:

> >Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
> >nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.
>
> Why would that make "you'd expect things like that to be a lot more
common"
> untrue?
>
I think the argument of "Etheric Accountants" is about to come up here. If a
magician requires 30 points in the companion rules, thus, they are the "1%"
of all people, then someone with a 3 point power would be "10%" of the
potential users. However, if you use the "by the letter of the law" argument
for magical potential, and only "1%" of all population is capable of using
some form of magic, and "Astral Sight" was 3 points (say, near the
"10%" of
the "1%"), and full magicians were 30 points....10 times the cost, 1/10th the
population of the magically potential.

-K
Message no. 12
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:15:54 -0600
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Drekhead wrote:

> On 27 Oct 97 at 10:51, Max Rible wrote:
>
>
> Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
> nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.

You know I always thought he was a PhysAd that just didn't know about his
other talents...


>
> --
>
> drekhead@***.net
> ++++
> Sig file lost.
> ++++
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5648
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:01:25 -0500
Czar Eggbert once dared to write,

>You know I always thought he was a PhysAd that just didn't know about his
>other talents...

Ditto.

-MC23-
Message no. 14
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:55:00 GMT
on 27.10.97 slothman@*********.ORG wrote:

s> >> magical activity is supposed to present for 1% of the population,
s> >> and with Astral Sight only costing 3 points of Edge you'd expect
s> >> things like that to be a lot more common.
s>
s> >Not true. Their was a priest in a novel who had astral sight, and
s> >nothing else. In the first triology, I believe.
s>
s> Why would that make "you'd expect things like that to be a lot more
common"
s> untrue?

Does it matter? If you don't want it to become common in your game, don't
allow everybody to have it.


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
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t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
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Message no. 15
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Magical Deckers / magic edges
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:18:53 +0500
On 1 Nov 97 at 14:01, MC23 wrote:

> Czar Eggbert once dared to write,
>
> >You know I always thought he was a PhysAd that just didn't know about his
> >other talents...
>
> Ditto.

Well, that very well could have been implied; but remember, at that
time, early in the SR timeline, the "talents" hadn't been discovered
yet...

--

drekhead@***.net
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Sig file lost.
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