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From:	Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject:	Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:53:35 -0400

Message no. 1 Hiya folks :)

In my campaign, I have a rule that requires all foci to be registered (like
you would for obtaining a gun permit). This has always been a simple rule
and has made sense to me.

However, today I was thinking about this in more depth, and several
questions came to me (hate it when that happens). ;)

First, assuming you agree with the permit requirement for magical items,
would you include spell locks under this law? They can't really be used to
attack someone (you can't lock a combat spell, etc.). But they can be
bonded to someone against their will and be used to say starve someone (if
you lock a physical barrier spell on them), etc.

Also, how do you feel about anchorings? Should they be registered too?

Here's the gist of how I feel about all this:

Foci are treated similarly to guns. In order for them to be legal, they
have to be registered to their owner, and the owner must obtain a permit.
Also, any magically active beings must register themselves as such, and
thus are given permission to utilize spells, spirits, etc. within the
confines of the law. Now, I would never require anyone to register
fetishes, fetish foci, or enchanting materials - just as I would never
require anyone to register a knife. But I am kinda iffy on spell locks and
anchorings. Maybe anchorings should be treated like spellcasting, in that
if you are a registered magician, you can create and/or use anchorings
without a problem. Spell locks, I am up in the air about.

This leads me to yet another level of fun. :)

How would someone track a missing or stolen focus? Would they be etched
with serial numbers, like guns are? Or would a ritual link to the focus be
kept by the creator of the item? I can see why some magicians wouldn't
take too kindly to their magical items being etched with mundane tracking
numbers.

Oh well, that's enough for now. I just thought this seemingly simple
aspect of my game could use some more probing. :)

Thanks for your input,

Justin :)

From:	Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:08:32 -0700

Message no. 2 > In my campaign, I have a rule that requires all foci to be registered (like
> you would for obtaining a gun permit). This has always been a simple rule
> and has made sense to me.

Same here. I've also made the formulae for all S and D drain level
spells require registration (and in the case of D, security permits) --
Heal and Treat being notable exceptions. No need for Joe Citizen to run
around with a Hellblast on him now, eh?

> However, today I was thinking about this in more depth, and several
> questions came to me (hate it when that happens). ;)

> First, assuming you agree with the permit requirement for magical items,
> would you include spell locks under this law? They can't really be used to
> attack someone (you can't lock a combat spell, etc.). But they can be
> bonded to someone against their will and be used to say starve someone (if
> you lock a physical barrier spell on them), etc.

Nearly anything sold by your average talismonger (fetishes and some raw
material being excepted) would be tracked. Again, you don't know its
purpose; it could be used for Evil; ergo, registered. Society's
paranoid for a reason.

As far as getting talismongers to register - mostly done through sweet
coercion. Work for the corp, they'll provide a better wage, and all the
infrastructure for you; if they ask you for your cash register receipts,
well, it's that or the street.

Are there illegal talismongers? Of course there are. One reason
talismonger contacts are likely to keep a sharp eye on the PCs: if they
get geeked, and their foci are tracked down by the Star, it may just
mean the talisguy's life.

> Also, how do you feel about anchorings? Should they be registered too?

Too difficult to track, these. Can only deal with them after the fact.
Might allow some system of registering an area to have magic done in it,
perhaps even up to a certain background level - the Fiery Chariot
nightclub might have small illusions anchored to it, but if a shadow
group should do a ritual in the backroom, the weekly patrolling mage may
just take notice, and the club owner knocked down with a fine.

Problems: How does this hold up in court? Who's your "group of peers"?

> Here's the gist of how I feel about all this:

> Foci are treated similarly to guns. In order for them to be legal, they
> have to be registered to their owner, and the owner must obtain a permit.
> Also, any magically active beings must register themselves as such, and
> thus are given permission to utilize spells, spirits, etc. within the
> confines of the law. Now, I would never require anyone to register
> fetishes, fetish foci, or enchanting materials - just as I would never
> require anyone to register a knife.

Wouldn't dismiss enchanting materials as a group. Gold, mercury,
silver, copper - most any rare metal - are likely to be tracked.

> But I am kinda iffy on spell locks and
> anchorings. Maybe anchorings should be treated like spellcasting, in that
> if you are a registered magician, you can create and/or use anchorings
> without a problem. Spell locks, I am up in the air about.

Treat anchorings - depending on their nature - as a crime. Anchoring a
Stinkbomb spell should carry as high a penalty as lobbing a canister of
CN. Perhaps higher.

> This leads me to yet another level of fun. :)

> How would someone track a missing or stolen focus? Would they be etched
> with serial numbers, like guns are? Or would a ritual link to the focus be
> kept by the creator of the item? I can see why some magicians wouldn't
> take too kindly to their magical items being etched with mundane tracking
> numbers.

Physical markings, sure; remember that when activated, spell locks
aren't supposed to be able to be touched by mundanes. The enchanter,
iirc, is always considered a link to any foci he/she's created - all
that Karma from First Bonding, remember?

> Oh well, that's enough for now. I just thought this seemingly simple
> aspect of my game could use some more probing. :)

Should you track spirits?

Make magic groups register? Initiates?

How about benefits for toxic/insect shamans who decide to cooperate with
the law?

Paracritters?

> Thanks for your input,
>
> Justin :)

From:	Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:12:19 +0000

Message no. 3 > Hiya folks :)
Hiya, Justin!

> In my campaign, I have a rule that requires all foci to be registered (like
> you would for obtaining a gun permit). This has always been a simple rule
> and has made sense to me.
>
> However, today I was thinking about this in more depth, and several
> questions came to me (hate it when that happens). ;)

*snip*

> Foci are treated similarly to guns. In order for them to be legal, they
> have to be registered to their owner, and the owner must obtain a permit.

It is an interesting idea, but I have one point to make..
AFAIK (I might remember totally wrong here) but any bonded items
has a very clear astral trace to whoever has bonded it. So not only
does each such item has a huge "I AM THE PROPERTY OF X" sign on it,
but it points to the only person *able* to use the foci. So it cannot
even be stolen and used to frame someone. (Unless it is left at the
scene of someone killed by another spellcaster just leaving the foci
there for the police to find or something.. but it cannot leave a
trail to anyone that did not use it, even if that anyone was the
original owner.).

That means registering the items is fairly pointless.. unless they
want a lot of work done so that the mundane cops can feel equal.

Which is not entirely unlikely. (Isn't bureaucracy nice??? :)

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost

From:	"Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:15:29 -0500

Message no. 4 On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Fade wrote:

[snip stuff]

> It is an interesting idea, but I have one point to make..
> AFAIK (I might remember totally wrong here) but any bonded items
> has a very clear astral trace to whoever has bonded it. So not only
> does each such item has a huge "I AM THE PROPERTY OF X" sign on it,
> but it points to the only person *able* to use the foci. So it cannot
> even be stolen and used to frame someone. (Unless it is left at the
> scene of someone killed by another spellcaster just leaving the foci
> there for the police to find or something.. but it cannot leave a
> trail to anyone that did not use it, even if that anyone was the
> original owner.).
>
> That means registering the items is fairly pointless.. unless they
> want a lot of work done so that the mundane cops can feel equal.

Well, I don't think the point of registration is to allow an item to be
traced. The point of registration is to make said item harder to get
ahold of. In order to get a gun permit, for example, you have to have a
background check and take a class in gun safety. Same thing with a focus,
I would think, would make it harder for a magician to acquire a focus for
anything other than legitimate (legal) purposes. If a focus is found at a
crime scene, it could then be traced back to the magician it belongs to
and the magician would then be asked to show a permit to avoid
prosecution.

-Q

---------------------------------------
I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke
It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi.

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer

From:	P S ONeal <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Fri, 5 Sep 1997 03:28:17 -0005

Message no. 5 On 4 Sep 97 at 18:53, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> Hiya folks :)
>
> In my campaign, I have a rule that requires all foci to be registered
> (like you would for obtaining a gun permit). This has always been a
> simple rule and has made sense to me.
>
<snip snip>

Check out the Lone Star scource book, they've got rules for foci
registration as well as magician licensing.
--

Ashlocke

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R

From:	Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:19:27 +0000

Message no. 6 > > That means registering the items is fairly pointless.. unless they
> > want a lot of work done so that the mundane cops can feel equal.
>
> Well, I don't think the point of registration is to allow an item to be
> traced. The point of registration is to make said item harder to get
> ahold of. In order to get a gun permit, for example, you have to have a
> background check and take a class in gun safety.

Now this varies a *LOT* depending on where you go. But I hadn't
thought of making them harder to get, only to use... :)
(How does gun permits/purchase happen for those of you living in
Seattle today?)

> Same thing with a focus,
> I would think, would make it harder for a magician to acquire a focus for
> anything other than legitimate (legal) purposes. If a focus is found at a
> crime scene, it could then be traced back to the magician it belongs to
> and the magician would then be asked to show a permit to avoid
> prosecution.

Hm. Sounds a bit like your regular talsimonger contact could come in
handy for things like this... (Considering how the permit interview
might go for the standard runner.).

But what to do about a power focus, as opposed to a specific spell
focus? It can be used for anything.. including perfectly normal
purposes... or hellblasts.
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Magical Items and Permits
Date:	Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:25:06 +0100

Message no. 7 Justin Pinnow said on 18:53/ 4 Sep 97...

> How would someone track a missing or stolen focus? Would they be etched
> with serial numbers, like guns are? Or would a ritual link to the focus be
> kept by the creator of the item? I can see why some magicians wouldn't
> take too kindly to their magical items being etched with mundane tracking
> numbers.

The answers to these questions are in the Lone Star book somewhere,
however as I've loaned it to one of my players so I can't look it up right
now...

IIRC what happens is that they shave off a small sliver of the item and
keep it locked away in a big, well-protected vault somewhere. That gives
(alledgedly) a ritual link to the item without altering the item so far
that it loses its enchantment. Some comments in the book say this is
impossible, others say it is, still others wonder about how long the
shaving will last, and there are other questions, but this is what LS does
when you register a focus.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well, I have no opinion about that, and I have no opinion about me...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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