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Message no. 1
From: "Robert G. Brook" <rgb1@**.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Magic and Melee
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:08:12 -0500
I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in a
brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first action,
by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized that I was
unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked numerous
references but have not found a satisifactory system for resolution. I'd
like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and ideas...

Thanks

Glenn
Message no. 2
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:51:56 -0500
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At 06:08 PM 6/8/97 -0500, Robert G. Brook wrote:
>I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
>GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in a
>brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first action,
>by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized that I was
>unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked numerous
>references but have not found a satisifactory system for resolution. I'd
>like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and ideas...

I don't really understand what you mean. There are no rules for how magic
functions in melee because it dosen't really function any differently. If
the magic user is in melee, he/she can cast spells on his/her action as
normal. Being hit dosen't affect one spellcasting at all, unless you're
injured, where the normal damage rules apply.

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--
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 3
From: Kristling the Weird <kristling@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:09:04 -0400
Robert G. Brook wrote:
> I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
> GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in a
> brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first action,
> by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized that I was
> unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked numerous
> references but have not found a satisifactory system for resolution. I'd
> like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and ideas...

Wellllllllllllll.....

1)Touch only: Treat these like I do, hand strikes. In the midst of
melee, the magician has to land a "blow". I never score the damage for
this strike higher then (half the magicians strength)l, to account for
maybe getting a clamping grasp on the opponent to make sure he don't
move.
2) Others: I would recomend against casting an area effect when in
melee. You'll get caught in your own spell. any others, use the spell
casting process (pg. 129, SR2) for the melee action instead of the melee
process (pg. 100, SR2).

> Thanks
Your welcome.
--my two silvers,
Kristling the Weird
Message no. 4
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:21:53 EDT
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:08:12 -0500 "Robert G. Brook" <rgb1@**.MSSTATE.EDU>
writes:
<<I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in
a brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first
action, by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized
that I was unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since
checked numerous references but have not found a satisifactory system for
resolution.
I'd like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and
ideas...>>


Alright! A chance to use my newly-acquired SR2 manual! (And I'm sure
you're all happy I finally got one, so I won't make any idiot goofs:)

The good news is that this is an easy question. Spellcasting is a complex
action, as stated p82, SR2. Spellcasting procedure is on p129, same book.
About the only thing to know here is that Touch range gets a -1 on the
melee combat test (Unarmed Combat would be the applicable skill, I think)
when making aural contact, as per Grimoire 2, p117. Shamen may conjure up
a nature spirit in a Complex Action (p39, SR2), Watchers may also be
summoned in a Complex Action (this isn't actually stated anywhere that I
know of but is a guess that the list has made based on the relevant text
in the Grimoire 2). Mounting by a Voudoun Loa requires one Complex Action
(Awakenings, p124). That's all I've got. AFAIK, no other magic may be
performed within the space of a single complex action (ritual sorcery,
conjuring work loa and elementals take multiple hours, enchanting takes
days).

--
-Canthros-the-mage-boy
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:21:54 +0100
Robert G. Brook said on 18:08/ 8 Jun 97...

> I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
> GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in a
> brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first action,
> by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized that I was
> unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked numerous
> references but have not found a satisifactory system for resolution. I'd
> like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and ideas...

He could just cast a spell on his action, I'd say. The opponent would be
at very close range, but that shouldn't be a problem with magic, since
it's not like you have to point a large and unwieldy weapon at the target.
Casting spells with Touch range can be easily done in melee, all you have
to do is make a melee attack with a -1 modifier (because you only need to
hit the opponent's aura, and don't have to cause damage with the strike),
and if that succeeds you can roll the normal Spell Success Test to see if
the spell works.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:24:03 +0000
Gurth wrote:
> He could just cast a spell on his action, I'd say. The opponent would be
> at very close range, but that shouldn't be a problem with magic, since
> it's not like you have to point a large and unwieldy weapon at the target.
> Casting spells with Touch range can be easily done in melee, all you have
> to do is make a melee attack with a -1 modifier (because you only need to
> hit the opponent's aura, and don't have to cause damage with the strike),
> and if that succeeds you can roll the normal Spell Success Test to see if
> the spell works.
Hm.. could he punch to do damage *AND* cast a touch spell at the same
time? Instead of just punching to 'ground' the spell and cast a
spell? (Without the -1 to TN of course)


--
Rune Fostervoll

"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
Message no. 7
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:47:29 +0100
On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Kristling the Weird wrote:

> 1)Touch only: Treat these like I do, hand strikes. In the midst of
> melee, the magician has to land a "blow". I never score the damage for
> this strike higher then (half the magicians strength)l, to account for
> maybe getting a clamping grasp on the opponent to make sure he don't
> move.
The spell and Unarmed attack are made simultaneously, therefore it is
usually teh intention that the mage merely touches and thus no damage is
usually done (this is how SRII handles it I believe). If the blow is to
cause damage as well I'd increase the mage's TN for the attack by +1 or +2
to reflect the concentration needed to cast the spell at the same time.

> 2) Others: I would recomend against casting an area effect when in
> melee. You'll get caught in your own spell.
If its a manipulation spell such as Flame Bomb then yes, but if its a
combat area effect spell then I believ that the mage does not target
himself (does he choose not to 'see' his own aura?).


The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 8
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:53:38 EDT
On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:24:03 +0000 Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
writes:
<snip>
<<Hm.. could he punch to do damage *AND* cast a touch spell at the same
time? Instead of just punching to 'ground' the spell and cast a spell?
(Without the -1 to TN of course)>>


No. The rules Gurth quoted were from the Grimoire, pg 117 where it also
states that "The use of Touch Required spell cannot be combined with a
damage causing unarmed attack."


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 9
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:18:37 -0700
| I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation while
| GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself involved in
a
| brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first action,
| by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized that I
was
| unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked numerous
| references but have not found a satisifactory system for resolution. I'd
| like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and ideas...

Well the way I see it the mojo will come to the mage the exact same way it
always does. I wouldn't recommend any area effect spells, but manabolt
would still work the same as always.

-Caric

"I was NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!"
-Blackjack our Racoon Shaman when asked why he ran away from one
particular fight."
Message no. 10
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:19:40 -0700
> | I like some opinions on magic in melee. I ran into a situation
while
> | GMing our last run in which a Grade 4 initiate found himself
involved in
> a
> | brawl with a PC Minotaur sammie. Sometime around the mages first
action,
> | by which time he was already firmly caught in melee, I realized
that I
> was
> | unsure as to how magic functions in melee. I have since checked
numerous
> | references but have not found a satisifactory system for
resolution. I'd
> | like to open this discussion with a request for opinions and
ideas...

In our game I also apply the +2 for attacker (caster) in melee. This
represents the limitted visibility and distraction of dodging and
weaving with a guy right there in your face. Cover modifiers apply
when casting at your target, so I figure the same would come into play
if you're trying to manabolt him and all you can focus on is his face
and the arm/fist he's waving in yours.

Also, a touch spell can be used in melee, but it incorporates rolling
an unarmed attack to make the touch at a -1 to the T#.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 11
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:27:49 -0500
You wrote:
> In our game I also apply the +2 for attacker (caster) in melee. This
> represents the limitted visibility and distraction of dodging and
> weaving with a guy right there in your face. Cover modifiers apply
> when casting at your target, so I figure the same would come into play
> if you're trying to manabolt him and all you can focus on is his face
> and the arm/fist he's waving in yours.
Actually, with Combat SPells, no they don't, at least not that I've read. They
only apply for Damaging Physical Manipulations. OTOH, his melee attacks would
prolly serve for a distracion worth +2. The 1st Ed. rules had a modifier for
attacking with firearms if in melee, based on the size of the firearm (+1 for
pistols, +2 for SMGs, +3 for Assault Rifles and Shotguns, or something
similar). I think this rule is absent in 2nd Ed, though. :(

losthalo
Message no. 12
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and Melee
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:50:47 -0700
---"Bruce H. Nagel" wrote:
>
> You wrote:
> > In our game I also apply the +2 for attacker (caster) in melee.
This
> > represents the limitted visibility and distraction of dodging and
> > weaving with a guy right there in your face. Cover modifiers apply
> > when casting at your target, so I figure the same would come into
play
> > if you're trying to manabolt him and all you can focus on is his
face
> > and the arm/fist he's waving in yours.
>
> Actually, with Combat SPells, no they don't, at least not that I've
read. They
> only apply for Damaging Physical Manipulations. OTOH, his melee
attacks would
> prolly serve for a distracion worth +2.

BBB, page 130, Situation Modifiers:

"Situation modifiers such as injury, cover, and visibility modifiers
apply to spellcasting. The harder it is to see a target, the harder it
is to hit."

Perhaps you were thinking of touch spells. It later explains that
"Spells with a Touch requirement (hand-to-hand physical contact must
be made) are subject only to injury modifiers."

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com

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