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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:24:18 -0500
As we know, magic can cast spells which maodify the visible light spectrum
of Electro-Magnetic radiation. Now, would it be possible for a mage to
design spells which affect other aspects of the spectrum like radio waves,
x-rays, infra-red and ultra-violet, among others? Obviously, as mages
cannot see other aspects of the spectrum without some sort of
modification, the simplest answer would be no. However, if a mage had the
right technology, could he potentially design spells to mimic, block or
otherwise alter the other parts of the EM spectrum?
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:07:43 EST
In a message dated 97-12-13 20:00:20 EST, jeremiah@********.EDU writes:

> As we know, magic can cast spells which maodify the visible light spectrum
> of Electro-Magnetic radiation. Now, would it be possible for a mage to
> design spells which affect other aspects of the spectrum like radio waves,
> x-rays, infra-red and ultra-violet, among others? Obviously, as mages
> cannot see other aspects of the spectrum without some sort of
> modification, the simplest answer would be no. However, if a mage had the
> right technology, could he potentially design spells to mimic, block or
> otherwise alter the other parts of the EM spectrum?
>
Oh boy, let's see...with technology, not easily as most types of visual
modification are electronic in nature and are not able to be usedd a guiding
point for a magician's spellcasting. However, if the magician had insight as
to what to look for, then s/he could device Detection Magic that gave guidance
to those other waveforms, and thus could actually allow for some interaction.
Theoretically, the "elemental" of light could be altered (read as Transformed)
into other em wavelengths.

On the purely game mechanics level however, -most/many- GM/Players would start
screaming and ranting "Munchkin"....

The few of us here in Lafalot (the game's Mike and I run anyway), that ain't
always the truth...

-K
Message no. 3
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:22:02 -0500
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Ereskanti wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-13 20:00:20 EST, jeremiah@********.EDU writes:
>
> > As we know, magic can cast spells which maodify the visible light spectrum
> > of Electro-Magnetic radiation. Now, would it be possible for a mage to
> > design spells which affect other aspects of the spectrum like radio waves,
> > x-rays, infra-red and ultra-violet, among others? Obviously, as mages
> > cannot see other aspects of the spectrum without some sort of
> > modification, the simplest answer would be no. However, if a mage had the
> > right technology, could he potentially design spells to mimic, block or
> > otherwise alter the other parts of the EM spectrum?
> >
> Oh boy, let's see...with technology, not easily as most types of visual
> modification are electronic in nature and are not able to be usedd a guiding
> point for a magician's spellcasting.

Cyberware can, of course, be used, as it costs essence. Actually, I got
the idea for this from RBB2 when the sec. riggers are talking about using
CCSS to 'see and smell' the radio waves.

> However, if the magician had insight as
> to what to look for, then s/he could device Detection Magic that gave guidance
> to those other waveforms, and thus could actually allow for some interaction.
> Theoretically, the "elemental" of light could be altered (read as
Transformed)
> into other em wavelengths.
>
> On the purely game mechanics level however, -most/many- GM/Players would start
> screaming and ranting "Munchkin"....

Well, I don't think this is stuff PCs would have ready access to. Most of
the research would come from megacorps and universities (sponsored by
megacorps), which would give this to the opposition before PCs had a
chance to use it. Over time, PCs might have access to it, but by then it
would be integrated enough into the structure of corporate security that
it would not imbalance the game.
> The few of us here in Lafalot (the game's Mike and I run anyway), that ain't
> always the truth...
>
> -K
>
Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:30:14 EST
In a message dated 97-12-14 02:55:29 EST, jeremiah@********.EDU writes:

> > Oh boy, let's see...with technology, not easily as most types of visual
> > modification are electronic in nature and are not able to be usedd a
> guiding
> > point for a magician's spellcasting.
>
> Cyberware can, of course, be used, as it costs essence. Actually, I got
> the idea for this from RBB2 when the sec. riggers are talking about using
> CCSS to 'see and smell' the radio waves.
>
True, and in conjunction with what you said about University and Researchers
mostly having initial access to this stuff in the part of the psot I snipped,
beginning types of sensory enhancement/augmentation would not be allowable in
a "cyber" form.

Just imagine the "cyber-microscopic vision" enhnacement cost for anything
beyond what a kids microscope...oh god...brainstorm is hitting....

Microscopes that I used to use as a kid had a power rating not going beyond
100X to 450X, and I could clearly see the cellular level of most animals and
plants with that. That kind of magnification could be put into a cybereye, I
am certain of it. Now please note, that I am not talking about "electron
microscopics" but the beginning of cyber-micros is there.

With vision of this scale in the hands of a magician with Use Skill of Magic
Fingers could easily manipulate and/or build small thing readily that would
directly attach to most cellular structures and/or regions thereof. Put the
Use Skill onto a pair of gloves as an anchoring and it could go into the hands
of a Mundane without trying much harder.

Combine this with UV, IR or RAD oriented vision and using isotopic die, you
could go a LONG way towards augmenting things.

Okay, yes I know this isn't something unthought of before. Hell, we even have
"Microscopic Sight" as a spell here, though currently no one in the group has
it (naw, she went straight for "See DNA" and the big D codes of drain).

What it does bring up, at least to me, is with some understanding, the concept
of cybersight can go a long way. Especially if the cybersight is just
receiving stuff from a machine that is totally optical in nature......

-K
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:58:54 +0100
Ereskanti said on 10:30/14 Dec 97...

> Just imagine the "cyber-microscopic vision" enhnacement cost for anything
> beyond what a kids microscope...oh god...brainstorm is hitting....
>
> Microscopes that I used to use as a kid had a power rating not going beyond
> 100X to 450X, and I could clearly see the cellular level of most animals and
> plants with that. That kind of magnification could be put into a cybereye, I
> am certain of it. Now please note, that I am not talking about "electron
> microscopics" but the beginning of cyber-micros is there.

Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to see much useful things with a
microscope built into your eye. Sure, a normal optical microscope has a
450x magnification, but it's a rather heavy and stable piece of equipment.
That kind of magnification in your eye would suffer from the small
movements head and eyes make without you knowing it. Just try using very
powerful binoculars without resting them on something stable, like a wall
or a tripod.

> With vision of this scale in the hands of a magician with Use Skill of Magic
> Fingers could easily manipulate and/or build small thing readily that would
> directly attach to most cellular structures and/or regions thereof.

Bein able to see things isn't enough in order to build or modify them --
you have to be able to make movements on that scale as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
My mind is numb but my mouth's okay.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 6
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:31:56 EST
In a message dated 97-12-15 08:27:04 EST, you write:

> > With vision of this scale in the hands of a magician with Use Skill of
Magic
> > Fingers could easily manipulate and/or build small thing readily that
> would
> > directly attach to most cellular structures and/or regions thereof.
>
> Bein able to see things isn't enough in order to build or modify them --
> you have to be able to make movements on that scale as well.
>
But Gurth, normal magic would work on that scale as the 'mage' (or whomever)
can now interact on that level and thereby manipulate it to their own whims.
All the microscope does is allow the person to see something they had not seen
before .. and in SR, being able to see something is all that is really needed.

Mike
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:43:28 +0100
AirWisp said on 12:31/15 Dec 97...

> But Gurth, normal magic would work on that scale as the 'mage' (or whomever)
> can now interact on that level and thereby manipulate it to their own whims.
> All the microscope does is allow the person to see something they had not seen
> before .. and in SR, being able to see something is all that is really needed.

I assumed Keith meant that the character used his or her own hands,
unaugmented, to build things. Throwing in magic for extremely fine
movements would alter things, yes.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
My mind is numb but my mouth's okay.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic and the EM Spectrum
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:16:06 EST
In a message dated 97-12-16 05:58:58 EST, gurth@******.NL writes:

> > But Gurth, normal magic would work on that scale as the 'mage' (or
whomever)
> > can now interact on that level and thereby manipulate it to their own
> whims.
> > All the microscope does is allow the person to see something they had not
> seen
> > before .. and in SR, being able to see something is all that is really
> needed.
>
> I assumed Keith meant that the character used his or her own hands,
> unaugmented, to build things. Throwing in magic for extremely fine
> movements would alter things, yes.
>
(thwap to Gurth, but a small one) Come on, you should know me better than that
by now...of COURSE I meant with magic....

(long sigh) some poeple (throwing hands in the air)

-K ;)

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!