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Message no. 1
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Magic -bonusses as well as penalties?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 16:07:41 EST
<snip old discussion on damaging manipulation spells>

While reading this I had an evil thought...
Since you actually aim damaging manipulations at a point, and since it is
resolved just like a firearms test with visibility modifiers and cover
modifiers...

>Then you should be able to use some tech to reduce such modifiers,
>like optical vision enhancers [low light, ... excluding ultrasound sight as
it is electronic].

>I am not inclined to allow laser sights to help reduce the target number of
say a flame bolt, but since visibility modifiers do apply then this kind of
tech will probably have to be allowed.... in the Awakenings sourcebook there
is an enhance aim spell...something to consider as well.


>and lastly..
>what about AIMING? Just like firearms, but I'm unsure of the limit, for
firearms it is 1/2 the skill so I guess it would be either 1/2 sorcery or
1/2 the rating of the spell. Game balance is saved by the fact that such a
mage would have to forego initiative to cast an aimed spell.
Aiming seems like a logical thing to allow for damaging manipulations BUT
if modifiers for cover/visibility are used for other spells then this will
probably have to be allowed for those as well.
>
>I know this will probably raise a lot of criticism but think about this:
>Whatever argument is used to allow visibility /cover/situational penalties
to spellcasting can ALSO be used to justify the use of the tools of the
trade usually used by street sams to counter those penalties and yes, even
enhance the effectivity of an attack.
>
>This may seem hard for all magic haters out there but remember:
>-Big guns don't cost karma, big spells do-.
>And btw: a manaball seems hard, but an offensive ipe concussion does
>a lot more! <and it's easy to get & very cheap... works wonders against
>shielded mages too... :) >
>
>
>I wonder what is everyone's opninion about this ,
the reason that I want to start a short discussion
about this is that the book is VERY gray on this area

>Ferri G. P. van A.
>e-mail: ferri@********.nl
>
Message no. 2
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Magic -bonusses as well as penalties?
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:44:04 GMT
Ferri Pagano writes

> While reading this I had an evil thought...
> Since you actually aim damaging manipulations at a point, and since it is
> resolved just like a firearms test with visibility modifiers and cover
> modifiers...
>
similar .

>I am not inclined to allow laser sights to help reduce the target number of
> say a flame bolt, but since visibility modifiers do apply then this kind of
> tech will probably have to be allowed.... in the Awakenings sourcebook there
> is an enhance aim spell...something to consider as well.
>
Aiming of spells is more of a mental thing i would have thought. The
advantage of the laser sight on the gun is telling you where the gun
is pointing, you know where your eyes are pointing.

> and lastly..
> what about AIMING? Just like firearms, but I'm unsure of the limit,
> for
> firearms it is 1/2 the skill so I guess it would be either 1/2 sorcery or
> 1/2 the rating of the spell. Game balance is saved by the fact that such a
> mage would have to forego initiative to cast an aimed spell.
> Aiming seems like a logical thing to allow for damaging manipulations BUT
> if modifiers for cover/visibility are used for other spells then this will
> probably have to be allowed for those as well.
Similarly i don't see why as you lock you eyes onto things and spell
targetings all about syncronising auras (combat spells) or aiming
columns of ... (DM's - for the brief moment the stuff exists as you
cast the spell) while a gun exists while you aim as well as while you
use it.

> >
> >I know this will probably raise a lot of criticism but think about this:
> >Whatever argument is used to allow visibility /cover/situational penalties
> to spellcasting can ALSO be used to justify the use of the tools of the
> trade usually used by street sams to counter those penalties and yes, even
> enhance the effectivity of an attack.
Only if the thing you are tring to use them with is compatible with
their use.

> >
> >This may seem hard for all magic haters out there but remember:
> >-Big guns don't cost karma, big spells do-.
> >And btw: a manaball seems hard, but an offensive ipe concussion does
> >a lot more! <and it's easy to get & very cheap... works wonders against
> >shielded mages too... :) >
> >
Yes, as i have pointed out to the 'anti mage' brigade so many times,
however 'knowing manaball' won't set off the metal detector on the
club door that pocketed grenade on the other hand just might!

> >
> >I wonder what is everyone's opninion about this ,
> the reason that I want to start a short discussion
> about this is that the book is VERY gray on this area
>
Fair enough but you are going to need better than association with
very different attack types to get far in my opinion.

>Ferri G. P. van A.
>e-mail: ferri@********.nl
>
Mark
Message no. 3
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Magic -bonusses as well as penalties?
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 17:36:08 EST
<snip 2K text>
The idea of the posting was to dispute a thing: I don't believe
visibility and cover modifiers should affect magic as it is an all or
nothing science, you either see your target [and BLURF it] or you
don't [and you're in deep shit], yet with damaging manipulations I see
a problem: the sourcebook states that these are the most powerful kind
of spells, but in practice they just have the highest drain, ok the
target number is 4 , and that is balanced with allowing your opponent
to use the combat pool and allowing armor to help. If visibility mods
are used then you get: high target numbers, high drain, enemy allowed
to use pools, armor reduces effect=== waste of good karma!
On the other side I guess cover should help somewhat , perhaps at 1/2
effectiveness?

BTW: What happens if someone puts a barrier into a lock, and someone
shoots at it, and it is then switched off and back on, is the rating
permanently reduced by the bullets?
F.

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Thwap!